Can a 'rounded' show cob actually be fit & healthy?

[cptrayes]

Carrots n mints how long ago was that picture of your lovely horse taken? It's clear from older showing photos that this is a problem which has got worse over the years.


He looks good, but he does look as if he is carrying more weight than I ever allow a horse of mine to carry, unless his belly is naturally low in front of his stifles. Pictures can be so deceptive, I'd need to feel his ribs before I could really judge.

 

[Carrots&Mints]

According to my vets, show horses are indeed coming down with laminitis due to their weight but it is endemic to high class showing and they feel powerless to do anything about it with client confidentiality issues involved.

Has the show Hunter on the front cover of H&H this week even got a shoulder blade? If so, it's nowhere in sight.

Well its really odd that the same horses and ponies keep turning up to the same classes week in a week out and not one spell of lami yet? odd

 

[Meowy Catkin]

No - I never said all show horses were fat. I do see a lot of very obese show Welshies (I'm in Wales, so plenty of them about). It's a fact sadly. I do see much better weights on non-show animals of the same breed.

The lame one I saw wasn't too fat, but he certainly was lame as a duck (not a hunter or Welsh though).

AA, personally i would like to see a bit less weight on your horse, but he's in much, much better nick than many show animals.

 

[Carrots&Mints]

Carrots n mints how long ago was that picture of your lovely horse taken? It's clear from older showing photos that this is a problem which has got worse over the years.

Thats not my horse (I wish it was) its adorablealices

 

[Carrots&Mints]

No - I never said all show horses were fat. I do see a lot of very obese show Welshies (I'm in Wales, so plenty of them about). It's a fact sadly. I do see much better weights on non-show animals of the same breed.

The lame one I saw wasn't too fat, but he certainly was lame as a duck (not a hunter or Welsh though).

AA, personally i would like to see a bit less weight on your horse, but he's in much, much better nick than many show animals.

That horse is in perfect condition and from the photos not an ounce of fat on it! Blooming heck if it was up to this lot we'd just have skin and bones!!


And wih the welsh... allot of the top show ponies and cobs are stallions hence the neck

 

[Carrots&Mints]

According to my vets, show horses are indeed coming down with laminitis due to their weight but it is endemic to high class showing and they feel powerless to do anything about it with client confidentiality issues involved.

Has the show Hunter on the front cover of H&H this week even got a shoulder blade? If so, it's nowhere in sight.

Whats the name of the horse, I havnt got this weeks h&h through the post yet

 

[Meowy Catkin]

C&M, you seem very sweet, but very naive.

 

[Jesstickle]

AA, if her were mine I would probably have him a little less covered (please don't be offended, you know I think he is gorgeous!) as I like to see a hint of ribs personally. However, he certainly does look well and not one I would pick out as being one worthy of reporting to the RSPCA

 

[cptrayes]

Well its really odd that the same horses and ponies keep turning up to the same classes week in a week out and not one spell of lami yet? odd

It's really odd also what short careers some of them have and how they can disappear off the scene with the owners incredibly reluctant to explain why, isn't it? Not to mention how infrequent drug testing is and how effective Bute is, as has already been discussed above.

 

[cptrayes]

Whats the name of the horse, I havnt got this weeks h&h through the post yet

I don't know, I just saw it on the shelf and wondered where his shoulder blade had got to.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

C&M - here's a cob from this years Royal Welsh.

This is my idea of an ideal weight (Rusleem - multi champion).

Same horse under saddle and he still looks fit and not overweight.

 

[Pongwiffy]

Has the show Hunter on the front cover of H&H this week even got a shoulder blade? If so, it's nowhere in sight.

Which is why I have always wondered WHY judges would want to see fat horses in the first place..surely it makes it much harder for them to judge the horse's skeletal conformation & muscle development accurately if everything is hidden under a layer of fat?

As long as a horse isn't too thin or light for its build, has a shiny coat and all the other signs of good health- surely judges should be more interested in the muscle tone, skeleton and performance than the fat a horse is carrying? There is no real skill involved in making a horse fatter and there is no real benefit to the horse either.

Maybe we just need to get rid of the ambiguous words topline and condition from the equine vocabulary because it seems to lead to confusion between fat & muscle.

 

[Carrots&Mints]

C&M, you seem very sweet, but very naive.

Thanks, all Im trying to say is that not all and not the majority of show ponies and horses in the showing world are overweight

 

[Carrots&Mints]

Which is why I have always wondered WHY judges would want to see fat horses in the first place..surely it makes it much harder for them to judge the horse's skeletal conformation & muscle development accurately if everything is hidden under a layer of fat?

As long as a horse isn't too thin or light for its build, has a shiny coat and all the other signs of good health- surely judges should be more interested in the muscle tone, skeleton and performance than the fat a horse is carrying? There is no real skill involved in making a horse fatter and there is no real benefit to the horse either.

Maybe we just need to get rid of the ambiguous words topline and condition from the equine vocabulary because it seems to lead to confusion between fat & muscle.

Arghhhhhh just because the horse is big does NOT mean is FAT!!!!!!!!!

 

[Carrots&Mints]

C&M - here's a cob from this years Royal Welsh.

I will say that that horse is fat and if it went to any shows that i go to that most likely wouldnt get placed, looks awful

 

[Carrots&Mints]

Thats definatly not the winner of the royal welsh though is it

 

[Capriole]

edited

cba

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Thats definatly not the winner of the royal welsh though is it

I never said it was - I was looking for the Sec A grey mare who was that fat, but had a google fail, so you'll have to look her up yourself or trust me. I would say that the pally and the buckskin in the background, are not unusual weights though.

ETA - Here's the winner of the sec D stallions.

Make your own mind up.

 

[Goldenstar]

AA's horse looks how a show horse should extremely well , beauifully muscled and picture in fact if he was fed more and did the same work he would soon be fat.
He looks in fact just like my hunter looks ATM he's being worked , flat work a bit of grid work hacking trips to the beach.
He won't look like this by October by the time November comes he will be leaner and ready to hunt all day.
It's an over statement to say all show horses are obese but you see some heavyweight hunters and cobs that I just can't bear to look at .
Proper muscle tone and bulk takes time and skill to develop some look as if they simply feed the horse to bulk it up.
I have to say I dont really get people's passion for showing ever other area of equine expertise I get ( I might not want to do it but I understand why they do )
But showing I don't understand .

 

[Carrots&Mints]

I never said it was - I was looking for the Sec A grey mare who was that fat, but had a google fail, so you'll have to look her up yourself or trust me. I would say that the pally and the buckskin in the background, are not unusual weights though.

No i know what you mean though when you see horses like this, it does give showing a bad name, the winner of the royal welsh is a beautiful horse very well protions and perfect weight and muscular at the same time

That arab is lovley and look at its neck, very muscular again, a beautiful stamp of a horse But many of the people will take one lok at the neck under saddle and go 'oh my god that horse has got a fatty crest' which isnt the case!

 

[Pigeon]

Carrots and Mints, this is in no way a personal thing, but you're saying you don't see fat horses in the show ring, and you have a horse that is carrying a lot of extra weight as your avatar...

 

[AshTay]

C&M - here's a cob from this years Royal Welsh.

This is my idea of an ideal weight (Rusleem - multi champion).

Same horse under saddle and he still looks fit and not overweight.

At the risk of starting to sound like some weird stalker, I also know one of Rusleem's sons (looks incredibly like his Dad!).
Not sure it's really fair to compare show arabs though as they tend to be leaner (I think, no expert).
But that cob is horrendous.
We were at a local show last year and my husband pointed out a particularly overweight large cob (and for him to notice it it had to be big). I was astounded when it won the show championship especially because it didn't even make a particularly pleasing overall picture (all belly) and the rider looked to be sat like a clothes peg on a mountain.
My mare was overweight last summer - the pictures make me very ashamed but she slimmed down but then got laminitis at new year when she wasn't overweight (at least not by the standards we're talking here). I'm hugely (silently) critical of overweight horses now (including my own gelding who needs to get sound again so I can work it back off him).

 

[Pongwiffy]

Arghhhhhh just because the horse is big does NOT mean is FAT!!!!!!!!!

I agree! Being big (or small or light) relates to build which is skeletal, e.g. the amount of bone a horse has and it's various proportions.

You can get a fat cob or fat fine built thoroughbred - although genetically some types of horse will be more prone to weight gain than others.

But the bottom line is fat makes a fat horse - nothing else.

 

[Capriole]

I have to say I dont really get people's passion for showing ever other area of equine expertise I get ( I might not want to do it but I understand why they do )
But showing I don't understand .

Horses for courses quite literally I suppose I couldn't raise an interest in some other spheres, showjumping for example bores me senseless. I used to have wider interests but they kind of narrowed down over the years :dunno:

 

[Meowy Catkin]

At the risk of starting to sound like some weird stalker, I also know one of Rusleem's sons (looks incredibly like his Dad!).
Not sure it's really fair to compare show arabs though as they tend to be leaner (I think, no expert).
But that cob is horrendous.

You have lots of Arab connections!

You are right - I used an arab as they tend (not always, some photos in one of my magazines show WH Justice looking porky) to be better weights, plus i knew a good example to google.

A huge gutter down the back would be sign of being very overweight for any breed.

 

[Pigeon]

I agree that a cob will never look as lean as a thoroughbred, but some of the show cobs!!! Shockingly fat. I think the point at which they start to get a texture like play-doh, they need to go on a diet...

 

[Carrots&Mints]

Carrots and Mints, this is in no way a personal thing, but you're saying you don't see fat horses in the show ring, and you have a horse that is carrying a lot of extra weight as your avatar...

Well the photo is more of a silhouette due to the position of the sun and his mane was flyin up hence why his neck looks massive, but he had a big neck due to te fact he was a cleveland bay. Hes no longer with us though

 

[Carrots&Mints]

This is the horse in the avatar

 

[Pigeon]

This fella?

He is fat!! Gorgeous, but undeniably fat. I'm sorry to hear that though

I don't think people were saying that ALL show horses are fat, just more than is ideal! I have seen OBESE horses win classes, only at county level, but still! I suppose for judges, if you see something all the time, it becomes the norm. I personally prefer a slightly rounded horse, as opposed to a racing fit one, for example, so I'm not hoping to see anything that is super-lean, but to let it get to the point where the weight is detrimental to the horse's health, just to place higher in a show, seems mad!

 

[Cortez]

This is the horse in the avatar

This horse is overweight. Fact. whatever muscles it has are obscured by layers of adipose tissue. Adorable Alice's horse is in "show condition" but is not obese; i.e. it's not fit to go out hunting, but it's not a gross wobbling mass either. I am actually occasionally a showing judge (fully qualified/accredited, in case you're wondering) (not in UK; Ireland, where a lot of show horses originate) and I DO see very fat horses in the ring, but absolutely nothing compared to the behemoths I see in your country - not being "judgmental", just what I see as comparison between the two countries.