can any body help? horse freaks with fastened girth

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tryingnotogiveup

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a couple of months ago I bought a 5 yo gelding who had had all his basic work done and just needed bringing onto someone actually riding him. I since spoke to his past owners and found that he had been ridden before at some point but that the next owners had obviously tried restarting him. he can be quite flighty and spook at silly things but that is steadily going away. when I bought him I saw him lunged whilst wearing his saddle (and girth) in all three paces. however he had been rested for a while so i have worked without saddle on his floor work, i have finally managed to get him a saddle (professionally fitted) which he will carry around in walk and trot no problem ( unfastened), today for the second time however i fastened his girth which he is happy for me to stand and do but when i went to walk him on he freaks out, bucking and rearing leaving me with only the option to get out of the way until he stops enough for me to approach him, i noticed that when i approach him after his muscles are tremouring in his legs which he does not normally do when he spooks at something. i am completely perplexed as to what it is because i know that he has worked with both before and he doesn't spook if i go to put the saddle back near him after hes had a fright and calmed down again, i just don't know what to do !? any ideas ?
 
its just a plain cotton girth ....the exact same as the one he had at his previous home that i saw him wearing fine that's the bit i didn't get, if he had of gone from elasticated to none elasticated etc i would of understood
 
check your saddle, I know you have had it fitted by a professional but run your hands inside the saddle, in every fold and crack you can find, it sounds as though there is something wrong with your saddle and it may be that something sharp is sticking into him. You would be amazed at the number of new saddles that have tacks sticking out, even really well known expensive makes. what ever is sticking in him would be pulled in when the girth is done up
 
did you check under the head plate, nails often stick out, did you check the edges of the tree, you need to shove your hands inside the saddle, check the stirrup bars, do they stick in. I still suspect it is pain related to the saddle. try lunging him in a roller, that will give you a clue as to whether it is girthing or saddle. He could have damage to his back, kissing spines? But it definitely sounds pain related
 
I would call a vet, your horse could have easily out its back out in the field,ect,but it does sound pain related. I have heard before girths can hit some sort of vein that makes them react ?
 
Also check for ulcers and hind gut acidosis. Looking back I wish I'd done/known about this myself.

I have one older gelding who did this and I believe the trembling was pure fear. He bronced when the girth was tightened, when tightened slowly once it got to fairly snug he couldn't cope. For safety reasons (me crumbly) I retired him from ridden work in the end but we had made good progress with slow general desensitizing work, working up to him accepting an elastic surcingle which I tightened every day slightly and then saddle and girth.
He also appeared to be afraid of leather saddles, it seemed to be the smell of them, so that was another thing I had to deal with. lol Looking back I wonder if he had come to associate them with pain or fear.
Vet and physio found nothing much wrong, just a slight tenderness at withers. Prescribed carrot and leg stretches.

These days he just ignores saddles. lol
 
Mine used to be an absolute space cadet when tacking up and unlike yours she was fine for years and then blew her stack and things deteriorated.
I did all checks and as others have said I would suggest checking your guy out to but in my girls case there was nothing seriously physically wrong.
It now appears that on that one occasion she was probably pinched and then on each following occasion she was so tense that she would explode at the slightest thing as she was expecting the pinch.

I dealt with her by going back to a long girth (think as yours is cotton it probably is but you'd be surprised how many horses hate the feel of a short dressage girth on their ribs) and got a sheepskin girth cover.

I put her saddle on and gave her a pat etc and then attached the girth by one buckle only onto one side of the saddle. Then I would attach it by one buckle only on the other side but very loose and then return to the original side to fasten the last buckle their and then back for the last one on the other side. I know this sounds like a terrible faf but it means that the pressure is being applied evenly and without rushing or pinching the skin.

All the time I was calm and talking to her but making sure that I wasn't making her nervous (I appreciate this is easier said than done as she is very quick with her front feet when freaking out!). Once the saddle is secure and the girth is done up I would ask her to walk towards me but I'd call her over with a treat. When I used to ask her to walk on by pulling on one rein she would occasionally resist and as she leaned back slightly she would "feel" the girth for the first time and then explode! By allowing her to make the first steps of her own accord there was minimal or no resistance. Once she'd walked a couple of steps she was absolutely fine with my tightening up the girth enough to get on.

I used to do all this to begin with in the school so I wasn't trapped in a box with her and if she did get away it wasn't as if she was going to be lose on the yard.

Honestly it took less than a week of this consistent routine to break the habit and she hasn't been a problem now for years. I do however still do the girth up in the manner I've described and even now that she is tacked up in the box I always let her make the first steps without any pressure from me. Generally once she has walked forward and stepped out of her stable I'll tighten my girth for mounting.

Not sure if any of this will help you and it may well turn out that your guy is sore somewhere but in my girls case it was really a case of learned behaviour and she is very sensitive and precious and so the situation was just escalating.

Good luck :-)
 
Have you tried him in a roller to see what his reaction is ,give him plenty of time to work things out to start with as he may remember pain/issues from being girthed with a saddle on , i would also do this in an enclosed area ie sand school or fenced off part of a feild so both him and you are as safe as you can be , if he is fine in this then i would suggest it is a saddle issue, i think you have several possibilities here, normally when a horse shows such an extreme reaction as yours has ,there is a pain issue and they are trying to tell you something is not right, most times when a horse objects like this to being girthed there is normally a problem within or around the wither area . when you girth up you put pressure on this area it is not normally connected to the girth just a reaction to pressure changes within the saddle ( it may not be the saddle he could have caught him self when he has rolled or played with another horse),i would also get the whole of him checked inc his back and then get the saddle checked again he is a young horse and his muscle can change undersaddle very quickly sometimes within a few wks especially if being worked correctly on the lunge or in hand , remember he is still young .If this fails then i would go right back to the start and reback him after all the checks have been done .
 
i don't think its ulcers as he is the greediest horse ! i struggle getting him to slow down !the only thing i can think is that he had a fall when he dragged me down the road the other week, but he wasn't lame or anything after just a few scrapes where his hooves had caught his skin, although both before and after that he has been a little **** when it comes to picking his feet up to clean them when he is normally so well mannered and behaved
 
I have commented on various similar threads and may even have started a very similar thread myself. However I know my horse's history and I started his backing. All was fine - hacking out in my other horse's saddle etc. Got him something wider as he's somewhat bigger than my other horse. Again all ok but he started getting a bit 'girthy' and slightly nappy when I hacked him alone. He then bucked me off when I took him to a show. I put all this down to him just being him. However, shortly after he completely flipped out having his saddle on. He did the same when I went to my instructor for help. It, like yours seemed pain-related as so very extreme. Had physio to him who said he was extremely sore all along his back. Seemingly the 'wide' wintec saddle I got him, although wide enough in front does not appear to be wide enough for his spine so is/was probably pinching quite badly. I feel bad I didn't pick up on these first subtle signs he wasn't comfy and we have gone back to basis with him. He hasn't had a saddle back on yet but I am hopeful once I get one that fits he will be ok.
I would get someone else to check the saddle. What make is it and what type/build is your horse? Also, do you know why he had been rested before you got him and why you didn't see him ridden/ride him?
 
Get the vet out for a start. It could be kissing spines, it could be ulcers, or it could just be a badly fitting saddle.
 
That is EXACTLY what my boy does, and I'm afraid that after three years trying to work on this problem I have had to throw in the towel and retire him. Just like your boy he will be fine for me to put on the saddle and do up the girth, but the minute he tried to move, he freaked, rearing bucking and spinning. Then will stand with his sides quivering. I did manage to get over it at first and ride him. I did it with clicker training, but he would be fab for a couple of weeks and then do it again out of the blue. I found that he had very severe kissing spines and had him operated on to have five removed. He came back into work well, but then the problem returned. It seems that as soon as he gets going, he freaks out again. The vets have told me that it is remembered pain, not real pain. I have also had (in utter desperation) two equine intuitives to him. Both said exactly the same thing, that it was in his head.

I am sorry it is not very good news for you. But your horse may be totally different. One thing is for certain, this problem has real pain at its root. You need to find out what it is. You may be lucky and once the pain has been removed, he will get over it. Good luck.
 
i didn't see him ridden as the girl who had him had not brought him on that far due to lack of help, which i know to be true as she is a friend of a friend however i have since found out that he was professionally broken before she had him unbeknown to her. i have a tekna saddle with a medium wide bar in which was fitted professionally by RnR less than a month ago he is rather wide even though hes not cobby but is short coupled but the front of the saddle sits well behind the shoulder i have just arranged for a physio to come look at him to make sure theres nothing physically wrong, or whether it may just be remembered trauma from another owner think i shall try him in an elastic cirsingle tomorrow to narrow things down hopefully
 
Mine is very wide across his back and is not a cob either. However, the physio said he had an "off the scale" wide back. Look underneath your saddle - what does the gullet do? Does it continue the same width from front to back or does it taper in at the back? If so then this could be your problem as I am not convinced all sadders check every aspect of fit. You said you had R&R fit it so are you in Yorkshire? If so maybe contact Tim jarman (physio) to get him to check your horse over.
 
Firstly if he's reacted like this more than once make sure you only fasten the girth when you're in an arena or fenced paddock. You don't want him doing that in a stable!

Secondly how do you do up the girth? My horses girth goes up to the 4th hole on the girth staps on both sides. I start by putting it on the first hole either side and then tighten it one hole at time on alternative sides. I also find things to do inbetween such as pick out the feet, put on the bridle etc so it takes at least 10 mins before it on hole 3 on both sides. I then wait til I'm mounted before taking it up another hole on either side. Might sound extreme but it takes me 10 minutes to tack up anyway (including picking out feet, brushing out mane & tail etc). Don't forget to stretch the front legs forward before you get up in case there's skin wrinkled under the girth.

Finally its possible that he's just a cold backed horse. I looked after a cold backed horse before and had to do the same with girth as above. Put on the saddle, fasten the girth so that it swinging loose, walk the horse forward a few steps, tighten it another hole, walk on again. Had to be done, had seen the same horse rear up and fall over backwards when someone forgot how to do her girth.

I wouldn't be a fan of elastic girths myself
 
yes im near Doncaster ill give him a call, i presume hel have a website somewhere. and yes i do everything new with him for the first time in the arena to make sure i have the space to get out of the way if nothing else! and loose on one side fastened the other then tighten both sides, not quite as gradually as you described however i just don't get the bit where hes suddenly sensitive to it whatever the cause and yet when i saw him on buying him he tuook the saddle and girth like an old riding school pony whod done it day in day out without a care
 
its that sudden change which makes me think new saddle. Unless you have changed his feed regime as well. And also weight of rider. I know you said he was professionally broken.......... well was he, or did they have to give up., Seems odd that he was professionally broken, but then the person you bought him from had started again and did not know. Some one appears to be hiding something and I suspect you have not been told the full truth. But if he was ok to saddle and has now become this reactive something has happened and real pain tends to give a reaction like that.
 
OP he had a fall and then you say he became difficult with the girth/ saddle and with picking his hoofs out. It's not much use saying he fell but isnt/ wasn't lame. He may not have been obviously limping, but he is probably lame and the saddle/ girth/ hoofs issue is how its showing. The lameness being in the withers or back or pelvis or something, not the legs/hoofs.
 
Could it be possible he is cold backed? If come across several horses like this and you cannot tighten their girth straight away. Leave it loose walk him around, and slowly adjust. I've seen horses freak out so much at a tightened girth they would nearl Fall over but are fine when slowly adjusted.
 
'Cold backed' IMO just means that the horse has undiagnosed pain/problem somewhere which worsens or hurts when being saddled/girthed/first sat on, eg kissing spine, ulcers, sternum injury, rib injury, badly fitting saddle etc...

As the horse fell on the road he could have hurt his chest and not show any lameness. Also eating up well, sadly does not mean that the horse is free from ulcers.
 
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