Can any horse go barefoot?

Goldenstar said:
It's not always the owners in my horses case the deviation to his limb made him wear one side of his foot two much causing the foot not to be balanced and therefore therefore the horse became lame .
Shod we could keep the foot balanced and the horse was sound in moderate to hard work.
He was sound without shoes until you upped the work.
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Did your farrier trim him back balanced each time? I ask because if so, there's a possibility that if no one had attempted to trim his foot to balance it, and you could have done what would probably have been a tricky job of matching his foot growth to wear, that he might have gown a bizarre looking foot that actually matched the bent leg, and stayed sound. There are some very odd feet on sound rockley rehabs :)
 
Goldenstar said:
Meant to add I just can't understand the sole trimming obsession .
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Farriers lower the toe thinking they are bringing the foot into balance, when what really needs to happen is for the horse to strengthen its heel area and match the toe height that way.
 
cptrayes said:
Farriers lower the toe thinking they are bringing the foot into balance, when what really needs to happen is for the horse to strengthen its heel area and match the toe height that way.
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I also think it is part of what they are taught, as preparation for seating a shoe, and for a lot of them, a trim is a trim is a trim, whether to take a shoe or not. I'm pondering just extending the interval between trims, especially if we have some frozen hard ground - he has very few cracks and I can tidy up any flare.
The problem with my farrier is he has been involved in rehabbing some feet that have been butchered by some strasser folks, so he is very very anti trimmers per se.
 
JillA said:
I also think it is part of what they are taught, as preparation for seating a shoe, and for a lot of them, a trim is a trim is a trim, whether to take a shoe or not. I'm pondering just extending the interval between trims, especially if we have some frozen hard ground - he has very few cracks and I can tidy up any flare.
The problem with my farrier is he has been involved in rehabbing some feet that have been butchered by some strasser folks, so he is very very anti trimmers per se.
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Nooooooooooo!!

Don't trim flare, all you do is weaken the foot by thinning the wall. Flare will either disappear when the diet is right, or its a structural deviation that the horse makes to balance its foot for the limb and body issues above it.

If you haven't already, search the Rockley blog for flare, she's done a few great posts about it.
 
JillA said:
I also think it is part of what they are taught, as preparation for seating a shoe, and for a lot of them, a trim is a trim is a trim, whether to take a shoe or not.
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For some trimmers a trim is a one trim fits all as well.
Ironically, Strasser trimmers are obsessed with trimming the back of the hoof, bars especially! Poor horses can't win!
 
cptrayes said:
Nooooooooooo!!

Don't trim flare, all you do is weaken the foot by thinning the wall. Flare will either disappear when the diet is right, or its a structural deviation that the horse makes to balance its foot for the limb and body issues above it.

If you haven't already, search the Rockley blog for flare, she's done a few great posts about it.
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Interesting how things change - a couple of trimmers who have been on the yard over the years have advised keeping flare under control to avoid cracking. I'll look at the blog, thanks
 
cptrayes said:
Did your farrier trim him back balanced each time? I ask because if so, there's a possibility that if no one had attempted to trim his foot to balance it, and you could have done what would probably have been a tricky job of matching his foot growth to wear, that he might have gown a bizarre looking foot that actually matched the bent leg, and stayed sound. There are some very odd feet on sound rockley rehabs :)
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he had perfectly shaped feet developed no flares at all but wore one side more because of the deviation he had nine months BF plenty of time to develop a flare if he had wanted to .
THe shoes where originally removed when a farrier tried to shoe with the toe clip placed in the middle of the foot this lamed the horse the shoes where removed and he was quickly sound he was a horse with great quality horn sole and frog .
He had numerous X-rays during this time the first one showed the damaged caused by the bad set of shoes the BF rehab was easy a first he was xrayed as we went along the secong set showed the internal structures of the feet settling back to a more normal postion but as we built up work hit the issue.
The mechanics of his deviated leg meant he wore the foot unevenly he had a lot of veterinary input during the whole time we had a great trimmer who recommended the new farrier .
After nine months we called it a day in fact it was the trimmer who first said this horse needs shoes ,I needed to use the horse and he was comfy in his shoes and remained so.
 
Goldenstar said:
he had perfectly shaped feet developed no flares at all but wore one side more because of the deviation he had nine months BF plenty of time to develop a flare if he had wanted to .
THe shoes where originally removed when a farrier tried to shoe with the toe clip placed in the middle of the foot this lamed the horse the shoes where removed and he was quickly sound he was a horse with great quality horn sole and frog .
He had numerous X-rays during this time the first one showed the damaged caused by the bad set of shoes the BF rehab was easy a first he was xrayed as we went along the secong set showed the internal structures of the feet settling back to a more normal postion but as we built up work hit the issue.
The mechanics of his deviated leg meant he wore the foot unevenly he had a lot of veterinary input during the whole time we had a great trimmer who recommended the new farrier .
After nine months we called it a day in fact it was the trimmer who first said this horse needs shoes ,I needed to use the horse and he was comfy in his shoes and remained so.
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That's really interesting GS, but I still don't get the impression from what you are posting that anyone dared try leaving the horse completely untrimmed for a good long time to see what the foot did. Was he lame from the wearing away, or from the mechanics of the leg? I'm fascinated by the bent ones ignore me if you are fed up with explaining.
 
JillA said:
Interesting how things change - a couple of trimmers who have been on the yard over the years have advised keeping flare under control to avoid cracking. I'll look at the blog, thanks
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Keep the height under control. If it cracks it may be weak or it may be the foot is too long. You only want a couple of mm above sole height at the sides and none at the toe.

Find the blog post with the picture of someone holding the hand of a child, it's a great one.
 
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I think hard to say exactly whether it was the wear or the mechanics .
The vets view was it was the wear his foot hit the ground unevenly so wore one side more caused the foot to be laterally unbalanced .
In the vets view the shoes prevented the uneven wear keeping the horse sound, the trimmer was the person who first said I think this one needs shoes to help him.
The lesson I took from it was don't turn your back on shoes for a horse because of a bad experiance a good set of shoes may be the best way forward .
However during his BF stage the internal structures in his feet did settle to a better place so he was ( he was the ill fated CF ) in my view greatly helped by removing the shoes but needed them to do the work load required of him after the feet had had a break if I still had him I would have given him three months rest in the summer then light work without them for as long as possible then into shoes again.
 
JillA said:
Interesting how things change - a couple of trimmers who have been on the yard over the years have advised keeping flare under control to avoid cracking. I'll look at the blog, thanks
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some trimmers, especially some taught in a certain way, do trim the flare to keep it under control. Doesn't work particuarly well but that is what they were taught and what they advocate. Doesn't mean it is a particuarly good idea.

Before trimming flare you need to know why it is there. Works best if you roll from underneath. Trimming from the top weakens the foot.

Is there a good barefoot farrier in your area who could help you?
 
Goldenstar said:
I think hard to say exactly whether it was the wear or the mechanics .
The vets view was it was the wear his foot hit the ground unevenly so wore one side more caused the foot to be laterally unbalanced .
In the vets view the shoes prevented the uneven wear keeping the horse sound, the trimmer was the person who first said I think this one needs shoes to help him.
The lesson I took from it was don't turn your back on shoes for a horse because of a bad experiance a good set of shoes may be the best way forward .
However during his BF stage the internal structures in his feet did settle to a better place so he was ( he was the ill fated CF ) in my view greatly helped by removing the shoes but needed them to do the work load required of him after the feet had had a break if I still had him I would have given him three months rest in the summer then light work without them for as long as possible then into shoes again.
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Thanks :) I like your routine. It's a shame your hunter couldn't do two days, but you had no option but to double his workload. You can hardly increase hunting by a tenth of a day a week :) No sooner had you got him to two full days but the season would be over. I'm betting your shoes on/shoes off routine works just fine.
 
cptrayes said:
Thanks :) I like your routine. It's a shame your hunter couldn't do two days, but you had no option but to double his workload. You can hardly increase hunting by a tenth of a day a week :) No sooner had you got him to two full days but the season would be over. I'm betting your shoes on/shoes off routine works just fine.[/QUOTE

J the TB who had a year without shoes ending in April came out of shoes last week
He was crippled when I first took him BF . He is sound in walk on all surfaces straight away after the shoes came off this time I will start riding next week and see how quickly he comes this time .
This will be a short shoeless break I am interested to see how it goes ,the plan is that he will have holiday over Christmas when I am busy I will do tick over until then then BF gradually increasing after new years day shoeing in mid to end of feb
I have just changed him ( them all in fact ) to the forage plus winter performance balancer he had been doing well on farriers formula but had sort of stopped improving if you understand want I mean , so I decided to try a change .
I am very pleased how he's taken the shoes being removed this time so far so good.
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Mine can't cope with an increased workload barefoot because of uneven wear. All I need to do though is monitor the wear and boot if the side he wears is getting too short. That works well for us.
 
My flat footed thin soled mare had her shoes off a year ago. The vet said that she wouldn't even cope with grass turnout bare but now she hunts barefoot!

I have a lovely supportive farrier who trims her too.
 
Really interesting debate. My friends cob who has never been shod was really great last year on all surfaces. In spring this year he developed a splint then over the summer months he's had periods of lameness and is currently being ridden with boots on his front feet. Farrier suggested he was pre Laminitic.. Vet said no such condition but cob was definitely overweight when this assessment done and vet said he had bruised feet.
I've tried suggesting she gets a bare foot trained farrier as current one is I think a bit trim happy but is not anti barefoot as such. He's agreed that shoeing now would just mask whatever the underlying issue is. I'm suspecting that there is a balance issue due to his dishing coupled with fatty cob syndrome. I've pointed my friend in the direction of the Phoenix site so fingers crossed she finds a solution.
 
maccachic said:
A whole 6 weeks! Its takes 9mths ish to grow a new hoof.

Im with the others on all horses can but not all owners can. Also have to ask yourself if a horse can't cope without shoes should you be riding it with them? What are they doing to the hoof that allows you to ride when you can't without them seeing as they only cover the outside edge???
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The horse was uncomfy without shoes. The stables lead straight out onto a rough concrete surface. Turnout at the yard was not 24/7. It would have also have been hard work to get the yard to walk her up and down the road to let her feet get used to it. Moving was not an option, so instead of seeing my horse wince on the concrete, put the shoes back on and she was much better.
 
wench said:
The horse was uncomfy without shoes. The stables lead straight out onto a rough concrete surface. Turnout at the yard was not 24/7. It would have also have been hard work to get the yard to walk her up and down the road to let her feet get used to it. Moving was not an option, so instead of seeing my horse wince on the concrete, put the shoes back on and she was much better.
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Cavallo simple to fit boots for the concrete for a few weeks?????
 
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