jo.stock
Member
Yes that’s what I have heard aswell I said I will ring every vet on speakerphone to clarify I did not have a vet to this pony
Can anyone advise me please I have been taken to court
- Thread starter jo.stock
- Start date
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I don't think you have to go through with it and neither does the solicitor that you spoke to today who has told you not to pay.
I believe there are no penalties if you now write and say that away from the pressure of the phone call you have realised that the request is not reasonable and you want the case to go to court.
You do need to clarify that with Citizens Advice or a lawyer.
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ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Don't ring any vets. It is a completely unreasonable request for you to engage a vet to examine a pony you don't own. If it's also an impossible requirement to obtain a quote from a vet, never mind three, for an unspecified examination of a pony they have never seen.
Ring Citizens Advice.
PurBee
Well-Known Member
As had been made clear - thank god….was starting to wonder if the court process had disintegrated to a mad hatters tea party! ?
jo.stock
Member
It was done over the phone this woman Said she was a judge and what she would do if it was in her court and basically she said I sold a pony that I knew the woman wanted it for riding and it’s not fit for purpose and we need professional diagnosis so we have to pay half each
HappyHollyDays
Slave to a house cat, 4 yard cats and 2 ponies
How do you know she was a judge?
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
The judge is wrong unless you are a dealer. Is this the only pony you have sold?
It's also irrelevant that she a judge, in this case she is only acting as an arbitrator.
Her job as an arbitrator is to get people to agree so it never takes up court time, not to apply the law correctly. She has seen you as a pushover and done you down in order to achieve that end.
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[153312]
...
Why does it feel as if something isn't adding up here?
OP, get legal advice.
Incidentally if it does go to court be aware anything on social media can be used as evidence by either party.
OP, get legal advice.
Incidentally if it does go to court be aware anything on social media can be used as evidence by either party.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Jo.Stock
Is this the only pony you have sold in the last 2 years?
Is this the only pony you have sold in the last 2 years?
jo.stock
Member
Yes it was just a private sale
jo.stock
Member
Yes it was a private sale
penguin83
New User
Hi sorry to jump in. I don't usually post.
It sounds like a dispute resolution hearing which takes place before a judge and attempts to settle the case or narrow the issues before trial. It is likely that you have been ordered to pay half as this report will be used as joint evidence for the final hearing. The successful party may be awarded these costs back at the end of the case.
You should receive a court order shortly detailing the actions you need to take and when by. If you are in any doubt, phone the court to confirm. Please don't assume this was not judge led resolution. ?
It sounds like a dispute resolution hearing which takes place before a judge and attempts to settle the case or narrow the issues before trial. It is likely that you have been ordered to pay half as this report will be used as joint evidence for the final hearing. The successful party may be awarded these costs back at the end of the case.
You should receive a court order shortly detailing the actions you need to take and when by. If you are in any doubt, phone the court to confirm. Please don't assume this was not judge led resolution. ?
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Penguin how did a judge trying to narrow the issues use the term "fit for purpose" with reference to a private sale of a horse where that term simply does not apply?
If they have done that then does the seller have an avenue to appeal the instruction on the basis that they are not a business seller and sale of goods act does not apply?
This doesn't seem right at all.
JS you really do need a lawyer who knows horses. Check whether you have legal fees insurance on a house policy if you have one. If this goes to court with a similarly ignorant judge you could end up paying all the costs and refunding for the pony at this rate!
Apologies if I misled you or anyone else, I thought you were talking about a case brought through the small claims court that had gone to arbitration, but it would seem it's got a lot more serious than that if the buyer could be awarded costs.
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If they have done that then does the seller have an avenue to appeal the instruction on the basis that they are not a business seller and sale of goods act does not apply?
This doesn't seem right at all.
JS you really do need a lawyer who knows horses. Check whether you have legal fees insurance on a house policy if you have one. If this goes to court with a similarly ignorant judge you could end up paying all the costs and refunding for the pony at this rate!
Apologies if I misled you or anyone else, I thought you were talking about a case brought through the small claims court that had gone to arbitration, but it would seem it's got a lot more serious than that if the buyer could be awarded costs.
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PurBee
Well-Known Member
The pony breaking through fences as buyer admitted to, probably caused the lame injury.
The laxity would have been obvious to the experienced friend surely? Especially if they rode the pony, multiple times, on trial.
You probably already have done but a friendly reminder to keep all contact emails/texts/phone messages between you and buyer as evidence of how the deal happened. Keep all old photos of pony showing leg conformation before buyer bought pony.
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite
Well-Known Member
I'm no Legal but there are two things which stand out:
Firstly that you invited her to have the pony vetted, and secondly that you wrote "Sold as Seen".
Caveat Emptor, "Let the Buyer Beware".
What a horrible situation to find yourself in.
Unfortunately I fear that you are going to have to spend a tidy sum of money for a Legal to represent you in this; forgive me for being blunt but I feel you are in danger of digging a deeper hole for yourself unless you do obtain some legal representation.
Firstly that you invited her to have the pony vetted, and secondly that you wrote "Sold as Seen".
Caveat Emptor, "Let the Buyer Beware".
What a horrible situation to find yourself in.
Unfortunately I fear that you are going to have to spend a tidy sum of money for a Legal to represent you in this; forgive me for being blunt but I feel you are in danger of digging a deeper hole for yourself unless you do obtain some legal representation.
PurBee
Well-Known Member
Have you received any official emails or paperwork through the post to confirm a legal claim has been made against you?
Or did you just get a phonecall one day out of the blue from a person claiming to be a judge, after seller said they would take you to court?
I agree with snail…this case seems odd.
jo.stock
Member
Yes I got court papers threw the post this hearing was a resolution hearing and non of it makes to me either
jo.stock
Member
Yes I have all the messages advertising ect and I have said why didn’t anyone notice anything up with him in the month they was coming down
AmyMay
Situation normal
Well, time to get yourself a good equine solicitor. PeterNat on here is usually able to supply a good list of them.
jo.stock
Member
Thank you for this so I do carry on with finding the vets
jo.stock
Member
Thank you
AmyMay
Situation normal
From one of PeterNatts posts
Here is a list of Equine Solicitors:
I hope it helps!
Actons
Tel: 0115 91002200 Caroline Bowler
Mark Carter
White Bowker Solicitors
Tel: 01962 844440
www.wandb.co.uk
mark.carter@wandb.co.uk
Andrew Dalton
Who is a solicitor and rides a motorbike having been a courier www.adventurebikerider.com
Helen Niebuhr
Darbys Solicitors
52 New Inn Hall Street
Oxford
OX1 2QD
Tel: 01865 811 7000
01865 811712
Fax: 01865 811 777
www.equine-law.net
E: equine@darbys.co.uk
Jaqcui Fulton Equine Law
Tel: 0121 308 5915
jf@equinelawuk.co.uk
www.equinelawuk.co.uk
Hannah Campbell (Specialise in compensation cases)
Tel: 01446 794196 (Specialises in traffic accidents involving horses)
www.horsesolicitor.co.uk
info@horse solicitor
Hanna Campbell
Horse Solicitors
(Took on case in 2013 on behalf of Claire Berry-Jones) involving making a claim Motor Insurers Bureau (MIB)
Elizabeth Simpson Senior Solicitor at law firm Andrew M Jackson
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk
enquiries@andrewjackson.co.uk
David Forbes or Belinda Walkinshaw
Pickworths Solicitors
6 Victoria Street
St Albans
Hertfordshire
AL1 3JB
01727 844511
Mark de-villamar Roberts
Langleys Solicitors Equine Law Group
Tel: 01904 683051
E: mark.Roberts@langleys.com
www.equinelawyers.co.uk
Elizabeth Simpson
Senior Solicitor
Andrew Jackson
Yorkshire
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk
Richmond Solicitors
13-15 High Street
Keynsham
Bristol
BS31 1DP
Tel: 0117 986 9555
Fax: 0117 986 8680
enquiries@richmonssolicitorsco.uk
Jacqui Fulton
Giselle Robinson Solicitors
Inderjit Gill
Jacksons Specialist Equine Solicitor
Represented Gaynor Goodall in an accident on a bridleway on Tameside County Court 01 February 2010
Knights Solicitors
Tunbridge Wells
Tel: 01892 537311
www.knights-solicitors.co.uk
Work with GRC Commercial Bailiffs
Senior partner very good on equine matters
Horse Solicitor
Tel: 01446 794 196
info@horsesolicitor.co.uk
www.horsesolicitor.com
www.laytons.com
Mary Ann Reay Charles or Chris Shaw
Shaw and Co Solicitors
Equine Law Specialists
Tel: 0800 019 1248
info@shawandco.com
www.shawandco.com
Arnold Thomson
205 Watling Street West
Towcester
Northants
NN12 6BX
Tel: 01327 350266
Fax: 01327 353567
www.arnoldthomson.com
enquiries@arnoldthomson.com
Tozers www.tozers.co.uk
Eleanor Temple Barrister from Kings Chambers in Leeds
Tel: 0113 242 1123
www.kingschambers.com
Here is a list of Equine Solicitors:
I hope it helps!
Actons
Tel: 0115 91002200 Caroline Bowler
Mark Carter
White Bowker Solicitors
Tel: 01962 844440
www.wandb.co.uk
mark.carter@wandb.co.uk
Andrew Dalton
Who is a solicitor and rides a motorbike having been a courier www.adventurebikerider.com
Helen Niebuhr
Darbys Solicitors
52 New Inn Hall Street
Oxford
OX1 2QD
Tel: 01865 811 7000
01865 811712
Fax: 01865 811 777
www.equine-law.net
E: equine@darbys.co.uk
Jaqcui Fulton Equine Law
Tel: 0121 308 5915
jf@equinelawuk.co.uk
www.equinelawuk.co.uk
Hannah Campbell (Specialise in compensation cases)
Tel: 01446 794196 (Specialises in traffic accidents involving horses)
www.horsesolicitor.co.uk
info@horse solicitor
Hanna Campbell
Horse Solicitors
(Took on case in 2013 on behalf of Claire Berry-Jones) involving making a claim Motor Insurers Bureau (MIB)
Elizabeth Simpson Senior Solicitor at law firm Andrew M Jackson
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk
enquiries@andrewjackson.co.uk
David Forbes or Belinda Walkinshaw
Pickworths Solicitors
6 Victoria Street
St Albans
Hertfordshire
AL1 3JB
01727 844511
Mark de-villamar Roberts
Langleys Solicitors Equine Law Group
Tel: 01904 683051
E: mark.Roberts@langleys.com
www.equinelawyers.co.uk
Elizabeth Simpson
Senior Solicitor
Andrew Jackson
Yorkshire
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk
Richmond Solicitors
13-15 High Street
Keynsham
Bristol
BS31 1DP
Tel: 0117 986 9555
Fax: 0117 986 8680
enquiries@richmonssolicitorsco.uk
Jacqui Fulton
Giselle Robinson Solicitors
Inderjit Gill
Jacksons Specialist Equine Solicitor
Represented Gaynor Goodall in an accident on a bridleway on Tameside County Court 01 February 2010
Knights Solicitors
Tunbridge Wells
Tel: 01892 537311
www.knights-solicitors.co.uk
Work with GRC Commercial Bailiffs
Senior partner very good on equine matters
Horse Solicitor
Tel: 01446 794 196
info@horsesolicitor.co.uk
www.horsesolicitor.com
www.laytons.com
Mary Ann Reay Charles or Chris Shaw
Shaw and Co Solicitors
Equine Law Specialists
Tel: 0800 019 1248
info@shawandco.com
www.shawandco.com
Arnold Thomson
205 Watling Street West
Towcester
Northants
NN12 6BX
Tel: 01327 350266
Fax: 01327 353567
www.arnoldthomson.com
enquiries@arnoldthomson.com
Tozers www.tozers.co.uk
Eleanor Temple Barrister from Kings Chambers in Leeds
Tel: 0113 242 1123
www.kingschambers.com
jo.stock
Member
Thank you so much
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
You need to ask a solicitor. You've already had wrong advice from me on this because I misunderstood your posts. This has already gone too far for you to be asking for help on a forum.
.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
This has been bugging me all night. I hate giving bad advice ?
I don't see any way that a judge can have used the words "fit for purpose" in that court hearing unless the judge is a fool or the buyer has managed to convince the judge that this was a business sale.
Is there more to this than you are telling us Jo? Have you ever sold any other horses? Do you run a horse related business?
.
I don't see any way that a judge can have used the words "fit for purpose" in that court hearing unless the judge is a fool or the buyer has managed to convince the judge that this was a business sale.
Is there more to this than you are telling us Jo? Have you ever sold any other horses? Do you run a horse related business?
.
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jo.stock
Member
Hi oh no I don’t want to fretting about it it was a private sale he was a lightly backed stated in his advert she had him on a trail at my farm for just short of a month she was offered to have him vetted she turned it down I have never once seen the pony lame sick or sorry he never needed a vet unlike my other horse ? but they are my babies and want for nothing I have multiple sclerosis that why I had to let him go because he needed a job anyway so the lady txt me saying she’s had a vet and he has laxity of the hock I said are you sure because he’s never shown any signs she got nasty saying I knew about it I asked for the vets details because I couldn’t get my head around it rung the vets she said he was lame on the day could be possible laxity of the hock but wouldn’t know until he had a full lameness test and X-rays so I told the woman take me to court if she still felt this way then I got a court letter threw with all the claimants statements and we had a dispute resolution hearing date it was over the phone judge said the pony is not fit for purpose he was sold as a ridden pony (he wasn’t) but I knew the buyer wanted to eventually ride him and I have to either give a full refund or pay half the vets to see if he actually has laxity of the hock and not fit for purpose
Sorry I’m a pain I’m just totally confused by it all
bonny
Well-Known Member
You are not being a pain, it sounds like a horrible situation to find yourself in. I have no experience to help but I really hope someone can help you resolve things x
jo.stock
Member
Thank you so much it’s the pony I feel for I really did think I found him the most perfect Home
AmyMay
Situation normal
It’s tough when it goes pear shaped.
Anyway, good luck moving forward. Hopefully you’ve managed to retain a solicitor now who can advise you going forward.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry you are having to go through this.
I am struggling with what appears to be a gap in the part I have highlighted above..
you got a court letter with the claimant's allegations. OK to there and the next thing seems to be the judge tells you what you have to do.
What has happened to your defence in the meantime? The claimant has put their side, what about yours? did you send statements saying you were a private seller, about the pony's history and you had no reason to believe he had a problem, explaining the time they had him on trial and could have had a vet, the fact you offered them to vet the pony, the simple fact that the judge may not have known which is that it is reasonable to vet a horse you are buying and pretty irresponsible not to, how long they have had the pony and it has not come up until now. Has the judge had the opportunity to read your statement and take your views into account. When they rang you with their decision did you discuss it with them, object, point out you are a private seller, you can't see how it applies to you, question their decision or just accept it. Is there any reasoning other than what you have written about in the court paper as to how the judge arrived at the decision.
It is unclear what info. the judge had. If they only had the claimants side of the story then their view appears reasonable. If they had both sides and were aware of all the facts then no.
Is there any info in the court papers as to what to do if you disagree the judge's decision? I am not sure there is a right of appeal. Does it say anywhere if you can apply to extend the time limit given by the judge?
You are not being a pain in the slightest, probably just a little lost.
What do you want the outcome idc to be? can you take the pony back and refund? if the new vetting goes against you what are you going to do. Is there a case for taking the pony back now to save any further expenditure?
Not suggesting you should just exploring the way forward
If you think you have a good case and want to pursue it then I would draw up an e mail with a very brief outline of the facts in list form (but including everything) choose a couple of equine solicitors off the list, send it to them and ask if they would be willing to take it and to give you some idea of the charges.
In the meantime I would select 3 vets, e mail them with your requirements (or at least the judge's requirements) and ask if it is possible, the cost and the timescale for doing this. I think some vets have long waiting lists due to covid etc so meeting the time limit may be difficult. If it was me I would be choosing a reputable equine practice. If you select the cheapest, small general vets practices and if there is nothing wrong with the pony then you may end up with the claimant being a PITA and wanting a 2nd opinion.
Once you have done all that lot you will have all the info to hand and decide how you want to go forward.