Can anyone advise with what to charge please?

[poiuytrewq]

Little pony is coming to live with me and her owners want to know what i will charge.
I have absolutely no idea. I'm not out to make profit, Its far from a business venture, I'm not nor ever will be a livery yard.
I will be looking after her 100% as my own so she will probably be out part time and in part time, although not stabled. We have a turnout pen and shelter so was going to alternate between paddock and that to build a routine as shes hard to catch and get fed.

So I'll be poo picking, bringing in/turning out, doing what i do to my own ponies, rugging/spraying feet and so on supplying hay and feed. She currently gets Happy Hoof but I think I'm going to tweak that.

I have absolutely no idea what they are thinking or what they currently pay. Will i invoice and treat it like I would the few freelance horsey jobs I do, Or could i say something like they pay my farrier bill (£202 every 6 weeks, plus her trim)

Suggestions?

 

[poiuytrewq]

* I don't spray my ponies feet I mean fly spraying and picking feet out!

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Are you going to be paying extra insurance for the yard for the ' new livery' ? Or are you fully loaning the pony yourself. If your having her as a livery this will up your premiums quite a bit so I would charge according to the extra payment.

 

[meleeka]

I think you should work out how much the pony will eat in the winter and then go from there. The one I have at mine eats 1 round bale and 1 bag of feed a month in the middle of winter so I charge that all year. If I had to poo pick I’d probably charge another £10 per week (because I hate it!) Mine is slightly different as the owner visits often and helps me when I ask. They also supply bedding and anything else their pony needs. It’s also a family member so that changes things a bit

ETA. - The cheapest full livery round here is £450 per month to give you some idea of the going rate.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Are you going to be paying extra insurance for the yard for the ' new livery' ? Or are you fully loaning the pony yourself. If your having her as a livery this will up your premiums quite a bit so I would charge according to the extra payment.

No I don’t have the yard insured. They are fully aware of that and it was them that approached me.
I just don’t want to be out of pocket costs wise.
For some months my pony will then be at theirs and they won’t be insured to cover him either so I think we both understand that.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Ok thanks, I’m not really looking at her as a livery as such, but obviously don’t want to be out of pocket either. Fly sprays and such like are not cheap.
Hay is an iffy one. Sometimes we make our own really nice hay and others, like this year it was rubbish and we have bought hay in.
I suppose I can adjust accordingly.

 

[meleeka]

Ok thanks, I’m not really looking at her as a livery as such, but obviously don’t want to be out of pocket either. Fly sprays and such like are not cheap.
Hay is an iffy one. Sometimes we make our own really nice hay and others, like this year it was rubbish and we have bought hay in.
I suppose I can adjust accordingly.

I wondered how to work out the different cost of hay, but then figured he’d be eating my grass if he wasn’t eating hay, so it was easier to just keep it the same.

Work out if the pony was somewhere, with the same care, how much it would cost, for instance how many bottles of fly repellent per year and bags of feed, bales of hay, etc, then divide by 12. Your own hay still has a value, as does your grass.

 

[DressageCob]

Oof tricky one. If it’s income you’d have to declare to the tax man too. I would think it would be easier to invoice at the end of the month for amounts actually spent (eg fly spray purchase, cost of feed and bedding) so you’re just being reimbursed rather than charging.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

No I don’t have the yard insured. They are fully aware of that and it was them that approached me.
I just don’t want to be out of pocket costs wise.
For some months my pony will then be at theirs and they won’t be insured to cover him either so I think we both understand that.

If they are coming on to your yard and there is a possibility they may get injured dealing with theirs or your pony, I would ask them to make sure they are suitably insured. Things like this could go horribly wrong, just a thought.

 

[ihatework]

The cleanest way to do this in ideal circumstances would be to cost everything out, allowing some for your time too, and have a fixed monthly cost. It matters not what they pay now - but what it’s worth to you to be helping them out. You are not responsible for subsidising their pony or being a martyr.

However the above approach would in my mind be a business type approach and a taxable income. Which I assume is a path you would like to avoid.

For that reason I’d probably split this down into facilities/labour and then consumables.

Jot down each month what you spend in consumables - hat/feed/feet/fly spray/wound care/rug etc and that can then be a direct reimbursement to a friend.

I’d probably swap land favours for you facilities. Do you get free grazing on their land, they get free grazing/stabling on yours.

So you are then down to what your time is worth and if/how you want to be compensated for that. You could either do a freelance rate at £x a day that is run through the books (probably best imo) or offset something equivalent.

(I’m conveniently ignoring the insurance aspect. But that’s up to you.)

 

[poiuytrewq]

Oof tricky one. If it’s income you’d have to declare to the tax man too. I would think it would be easier to invoice at the end of the month for amounts actually spent (eg fly spray purchase, cost of feed and bedding) so you’re just being reimbursed rather than charging.

That’s what I wondered, or even if I just say they have to provide everything.
That just makes it a bit awkward with things like worming and stuff that I’ll want to choose and do together.
Definitely an option though

 

[poiuytrewq]

Yeah, doing a bit of a favour can work out quite complicated can’t it.
How would the them paying my farrier idea sit legally?
Then I’m not charging as such or having to keep track of feed and such like.
Also it makes no sense to bill them say £15 for a bag of feed, pay £15 out for said feed and then have to declare that.

 

[meleeka]

Yeah, doing a bit of a favour can work out quite complicated can’t it.
How would the them paying my farrier idea sit legally?
Then I’m not charging as such or having to keep track of feed and such like.
Also it makes no sense to bill them say £15 for a bag of feed, pay £15 out for said feed and then have to declare that.

If you have worked it out and know that’ll definitely cover it, then it might be easiest. Do over estimate, rather than under though. I don’t declare what I receive because it’s only reimbursing me for feed etc. I might remember that argument when OH says I should be charging for my time though

 

[DabDab]

Do you ever sell the hay that you make?

 

[rextherobber]

Could you charge £xx/week then expenses on top ( farrier, hay, fly spray etc) £450/month for a tiny pony which presumably will be living out sounds way too much...

 

[SantaVera]

Could work out well or be a nightmare waiting to happen. What if the owner or their friends visit and someone slips and breaks their back? You could loose your house. You need insurance. Will you need planning permission as if you charge you are running a livery yard even if it's only one pony. It might be safer to take the pony on full loan and charge nothing.

 

[Polos Mum]

I think there are two parts - 1) stuff you have to buy - which could include hay (as it did this year). Could you ask them to just buy the stuff you need and have it delivered to you / drop it off. Then that keeps it really clear it's their stuff. You can still say I need XYZ wormer or ABC sack of food.

2) Your time. I would at least work out how much time it will take on average over summer / winter and then decide if you want minimum wage or not.

Insurance and tax is tricky - I would think long and hard about those. Just because you're not charging much doesn't mean you don't need insurance or to pay tax on it - technically.

I can't remember all of the back story but is there any way to keep things simple - Fully loan the pony, treat her as yours and sort everything out.
Then maybe once or twice a year have them treat you and your OH to a really nice dinner somewhere as a thank you.

Sending invoicing or tracking who's using what volume of fly spray could get really out of hand.

 

[Jambarissa]

Assuming you're doing this as a kind of favour I would only charge costs to avoid needing to declare it as income or risking being classed as a business and having insurance problems.

So work out the obvious stuff eg food, bedding, farrier, routine vet, dentist, worm count, etc. Then add £20 a week to pay a couple of local teens to poo pick at a weekend (don't do it yourself ), think back over your land maintenance costs over the last few years and estimate half the cost for the field that is in use.

Basically cover your costs and the cost of paying someone to do the hardest work but otherwise don't charge for your time.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Do you ever sell the hay that you make?

I have nothing to do with that tbh we always used to just do enough for me but I know that Mr P dies now sell extras and this year he sold the whole lot, but replaced what I needed!

Could you charge £xx/week then expenses on top ( farrier, hay, fly spray etc) £450/month for a tiny pony which presumably will be living out sounds way too much...

Absolutely I was thinking more £150/£200 a month perhaps

 

[tda]

I probably would suggest you do a loan agreement then he is definitely under your control

However, surely any costs you incur / your time will be more or less equal to the rent they will charge you for using their field

 

[poiuytrewq]

So how about this idea.
I charge 2 hours a week time.
Land wise, nothing as my pony will be using their field in return.
I ask for cash to buy things as and when and provide them with receipts and change
They (somehow, not sure yet) pay the farm for hay
This way I have just a small amount going into my bank that it’s correct I declare.

 

[Carrottom]

So how about this idea.
I charge 2 hours a week time.
Land wise, nothing as my pony will be using their field in return.
I ask for cash to buy things as and when and provide them with receipts and change
They (somehow, not sure yet) pay the farm for hay
This way I have just a small amount going into my bank that it’s correct I declare.

I was just about to suggest something along these lines. Maybe ask for a float upfront to cover expenses and then keep a record. That way you don't need to keep contacting them.

 

[Lucky Snowball]

I have similar. I provide ‘full livery’ for 35 year old who was being bullied in previous home. I feed, hay, change rugs as my own. Lives out with shelter with my oldies. Owners pay 150 a month, farrier for him, vet bills.

 

[Palindrome]

My 11h pony would eat 1 big round bale of hay per month (200-250 kg).
I think you are about right price wise.

 

[Squeak]

So how about this idea.
I charge 2 hours a week time.
Land wise, nothing as my pony will be using their field in return.
I ask for cash to buy things as and when and provide them with receipts and change
They (somehow, not sure yet) pay the farm for hay
This way I have just a small amount going into my bank that it’s correct I declare.

For the amount that you'll make out of it, I'd probably rather play it safe and have the pony on full loan with the understanding that they give you cash to pay for things like fly spray, farrier, feed, rugs and agree up front how much you expect that to be or a maximum per month (thinking if I was the owner of the pony I'd be a bit worried about giving carte blanche to someone to buy things for a pony as what I think is needed could be very different to what other people might). You're already gaining from using their grazing so I'd probably leave it at that but I'm a risk averse person when it comes to things like insurance and tax.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Ideally what insurance would I need?

 

[rextherobber]

I have to have public liability insurance as I have a footpath through one field, wouldn't that cover the occasional owner visit, and presumably the owner insures( or not( the pony?

 

[meleeka]

That’s

I have similar. I provide ‘full livery’ for 35 year old who was being bullied in previous home. I feed, hay, change rugs as my own. Lives out with shelter with my oldies. Owners pay 150 a month, farrier for him, vet bills.

I think this is the simplest way to do it. I’d argue it’s costs being recouped, so not an income at all.

 

[honetpot]

You need insurance. From my previous experience what ever they say there will be mission creep. My smallholder insurance has 3rd party and insurance for DIY liveries.
One year I did pig share, 'please come in the morning with out the children' I arrive one afternoon and there are five children in the yard, one child tells me its like a zoo, and the eldest is screaming because the dogs are sniffing at her, oh and they had been climbing on the hay stack.
.

 

[Jayzee]

I'd also be interested to know what people advise on insurance