can anyone diagnose what's wrong with this horse?

Bowen4Horses

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Hi all

A friend of mine has a horse, who is poorly, and has us all a bit flummoxed. I thought i could try asking you guys for some ideas about what could be wrong, or at least what to test for next...

the horse in question is a 17yr old mare, been with her current owner for years, and until very recently was very fit, happy, healthy etc.

three months ago, if you'd just met the horse, she could have passed as a 7yr old. now she could pass for 27.

a couple of months ago, the mare was in season. she had a very long, heavy season. her 'lady goo' literally dripped off the back of her legs/stuck to her rug for a few weeks. she backed up to other mares in the field and was humped by them. she was seriously horny...

owner says she'd never had such a long season before.

as season was ending, she became VERY tucked up, over night. she went off her food. and her weight dropped immensely. within a fortnight she went from being a bit on the porky side, to underweight.

also, her rear end action became a bit odd. as she walked away from you, you could see her feet sort of twisting on the ground a bit. and she seemed a bit stiff.


vet came out, checked her over. took blood and stool sample. bloods came back clear. poo showed she had a bit of worms.

she was wormed, and kept in for a bit. and for a couple of days she was REALLY not herself. she fell over in her stable, as if she'd fallen asleep on the spot.

as wormers kicked in, she perked up a bit. but still not right.

back man came out, said her pelvis was out, did stuff to it.

vet came out, checked her heart, put ECG on, had owner lunge her (she was very reluctant to go forward, very unusual for her) and said her heart was okay.

gave her bute. which seem to perk her up a bit.

couple of weeks later, she's being turned out in the day, brought in at night (to be given bute and plenty of hay). she's got her appetite back but is still not putting weight on like you'd expect her (although is looking much better than before), and isn't herself. and her back end still doesn't look quite right.

also, her coat isn't quite right, it's quite coarse, and she's hairier than you'd expect at this time of year.

she got turned out the other day 24/7 for the first time since being poorly, in the hope that grass would perk her up. the next morning her face was so swollen you could barely see her eyes. vet came out, said it was a something oedema and he didn't know what could cause it. now her face/neck swells up when she goes out at night time/long time. (it's not the normal grass glands thing... it's her whole face and throat area). when it gets really swollen it affects her breathing - but vet says this is just the pressure on her breathing bits in her face (nostrils etc)

vet came back, took more bloods. they were clear. he scoped for ulcers. all clear (but he did say there was more yellow than ideal in her stomach which is sometimes an indicator that the tummy fluid is sitting too high up in there).

um, i've probably forgotten a load of symptoms... does anyone have any idea? we're all very fond of this darling horse, and her owner is such a sweety.

in summary (might not all be relevant):
long season
strange backend
mega tucked up
very rapid weight loss
lethargic
swollen head
hairy - maybe that's a bad word to use, it's more coarse than normal
all bloods clear...

thank you all. hot milk and baileys for y'all xxxx :)
 
I'm a human doctor not a vet but if it was a human with those symptoms I'd say pituitary tumour or ovarian issue... could be adrenal tumour but this is rare in humans -- don't know about horses... either way -- it doesn't sound like great news I'm afraid.... then again your friends horse isn't a human it's a horse so I may be talking out of my backside...
 
I'm a human doctor not a vet but if it was a human with those symptoms I'd say pituitary tumour or ovarian issue... could be adrenal tumour but this is rare in humans -- don't know about horses... either way -- it doesn't sound like great news I'm afraid.... then again your friends horse isn't a human it's a horse so I may be talking out of my backside...

that's sort of what we thought... except when the bloods came back clear we thought that meant hormonal stuff was fine... ?

hhhmmmm....

...forgot to say, the next step for vet is allergy test. we are hoping she had a virus which brought her down, a touch of worms which made her poorly, a season that drained her... and now the swollen face is an allergy to something...

fingers crossed! :)
 
that's sort of what we thought... except when the bloods came back clear we thought that meant hormonal stuff was fine... ?

hhhmmmm....

...forgot to say, the next step for vet is allergy test. we are hoping she had a virus which brought her down, a touch of worms which made her poorly, a season that drained her... and now the swollen face is an allergy to something...

fingers crossed! :)

What blood tests have they done tho'?
 
if shes been mounted by other horses i would be having an x-ray or pelvis and sacroliac, she could have a crack or something which may explain the oddness behind. did she do for tape worm, it would have shown up on blood tests if she had them but you never know. it can cause horses to be very lacluster. i think she would be better of telling the vet she wants x-rays now to pick anything up sooner rather than later. dont know about seasons. do horse go through the "change" like humans?
 
oh and the swollen face- grass glands come up worse in some horses, prince sometimes has his whole face swell aswell but it goes down after 12 hours of being off grass.
 
No chance she could have been covered?

Checked for cracked pelvis as above?

Checked for ovarian/other female bits cancer?

Hmmm....hormone imbalance would have been picked up in bloods would it?

Womb infection?
 
Im afraid I don't have any ideas, but i would have thought it would be somehow linked to her being in season, hopefully a breeder may see this post and have more of an idea.
Could the mare have been in with any geldings or stallions? or could the mares that were humping her damage her in any way?

If she were mine i would want a second opinion from another vet, maybe a specialist in this area and i would want the mare to go in for examination and have scans etc, as it sounds like she is in a bad way and not improving.
 
if shes been mounted by other horses i would be having an x-ray or pelvis and sacroliac, she could have a crack or something which may explain the oddness behind.
i'll mention this idea to her

did she do for tape worm, it would have shown up on blood tests if she had them but you never know. it can cause horses to be very lacluster.
i presume so... i think she was fully wormed, but again will mention it. thank you


do horse go through the "change" like humans?

i was wondering this very thing the other day... i wondered if it was the horsery menopause. i have no idea as i've only ever owned one mare and she was young.
 
If she were mine i would want a second opinion from another vet, maybe a specialist in this area and i would want the mare to go in for examination and have scans etc, as it sounds like she is in a bad way and not improving.

she is improving... she's just not getting 100% better. a month ago she looked awful. she's looking better, just still not 'right'... x
 
If she was being humped and being over glamorous with her back end...could it have tweaked something somewhere that's not been picked up?


Or, very rare and I don'tknow a great dealabout it personally....but the dreaded grass sickness? Though doesn't quite fit the symptoms but just thought I'd throw it into the equation?!

http://www.grasssickness.org.uk/hollys_story.htm
Just that story mentioned the mare being stiff and moving a bit wierd when she was recovering from it....
 
I immediately thought of things that could be linked to her season, an infection maybe in that area, that sort of thing. I would think that anything there could also cause unwillingness to go forwards (or it does in me - i know how I've felt in the past when things aren't quite right in that department). Again, if the others were nounting her then she could have been injured in her back or pelvis too.

Hoping it is something that will get better with time, like a virus and not something more sinister. Sorry, its not much help. Let us know how she gets on

xxxxxxx
 
I am neither a vet or a doctor however i worked at a vets for just over a year and in that time we had 1 horse in with bit of puffyness to its head and sunken eyes he was showing colic symptoms though (this is why he came in to the vets) and he had to be put to sleep they opend him up after he was PTS to see what was causing the colic/puffiness and he had a huge tumor which was so painful for him this is why he was colicing.
I may be very wrong i am only linking it about the head thing. I hope i am wrong
 
um...? i think they checked for everything? can they do that? if not, should we be requesting a specific test? our vet is FAB and i trust him entirely, but at the same time, he's baffled too, so i'm sure he'll be open to any suggestions!


Probably wouldn't be insured for 'everything'... or unless your bill was well into 5 figures I would doubt that very much.

The symptom that would worry me the most is the drastic loss of weight and the change of nature of his/her coat...

As I say I'm a human doctor and human medicine is considerably more advanced that vet medicine as you can't PTS humans (at least not legally:eek:)

Ask your vet what blood tests he's done (I'm sure he'll have done a blood count thyroid and cortisol but there are millions of others (Quite literally we have 2 sides of A4 of boxes to tick so there are a lot of tests you can do)...

BUT I will say slightly different symptoms but a similar story my big boy (17.2 dutch warmblood 24 years old) lost all his hair about 2 years ago... literally bald all over with no mane and tail. Vet called. Vet skin specialist called. Paper presented at the international vet. dermatology convention in Japan all about my boy - no answer to how to help him. He started to go down hill in a big way (lost tonnes of weight despite 4 meals a day and as much hay etc as he could eat) and at the beginning of march I was considering how long he had left... Then someone suggested I tried feeding him 'slobbermash'... Now I don't know if this is a miracle food stuff or he just got better but he's now back in work (except this week as he hates the hot weather always has) and has a full shiny coat and his tail is growing back... so sometimes you don't know whats wrong and they get better anyway...

Blitz
 
If she was being humped and being over glamorous with her back end...could it have tweaked something somewhere that's not been picked up?


Or, very rare and I don'tknow a great dealabout it personally....but the dreaded grass sickness? Though doesn't quite fit the symptoms but just thought I'd throw it into the equation?!

http://www.grasssickness.org.uk/hollys_story.htm
Just that story mentioned the mare being stiff and moving a bit wierd when she was recovering from it....

grass sickness was the initial concern. vet ruled it out straight away... phew! x
 
I wonder if it was the other way round... something was going on before the season which made the season odd and that it has just gone downhill from there.

I think it depends what blood tests were done. I think if this has been going on for a month and the vet still isn't sure they should be referring or at least chatting to other vets (though they might be doing this already)

poor mare.
 
Our blood tests we've had done always were checked for everything...it's only £20ish to do so insurance wouldn't be a problem I wouldn't think for running bloods :)
 
Probably wouldn't be insured for 'everything'... or unless your bill was well into 5 figures I would doubt that very much.

The symptom that would worry me the most is the drastic loss of weight and the change of nature of his/her coat...

As I say I'm a human doctor and human medicine is considerably more advanced that vet medicine as you can't PTS humans (at least not legally:eek:)

Ask your vet what blood tests he's done (I'm sure he'll have done a blood count thyroid and cortisol but there are millions of others (Quite literally we have 2 sides of A4 of boxes to tick so there are a lot of tests you can do)...

BUT I will say slightly different symptoms but a similar story my big boy (17.2 dutch warmblood 24 years old) lost all his hair about 2 years ago... literally bald all over with no mane and tail. Vet called. Vet skin specialist called. Paper presented at the international vet. dermatology convention in Japan all about my boy - no answer to how to help him. He started to go down hill in a big way (lost tonnes of weight despite 4 meals a day and as much hay etc as he could eat) and at the beginning of march I was considering how long he had left... Then someone suggested I tried feeding him 'slobbermash'... Now I don't know if this is a miracle food stuff or he just got better but he's now back in work (except this week as he hates the hot weather always has) and has a full shiny coat and his tail is growing back... so sometimes you don't know whats wrong and they get better anyway...

Blitz

i'll have a chat with the owner and see if we can get some more bloods done. thank you :D
p.s. fab news about your boy! :D
 
I wonder if it was the other way round... something was going on before the season which made the season odd and that it has just gone downhill from there.

I think it depends what blood tests were done. I think if this has been going on for a month and the vet still isn't sure they should be referring or at least chatting to other vets (though they might be doing this already)
.

he is chatting to another vet at rossdales in newmarket.

ho hum. tis a worry. x
 
binky I dont think that blood tests would cover abs everything. there will be a basic screen to cover most processes but some hormones etc would all be different I would expect.
 
My first thought was uterine infection or similar - maybe polycystic ovaries (do horses get this?) but definitely the root seems to be whatever caused the abnormal season. Yes she may have damaged her pelvis being humped and I would probably get a second back check done and possibly x rays but the season was different to normal so that is where my focus would be. Perhaps talk to the vet about trying Regumate to see if that has any effect. She sounds like she is very uncomfortable.

On the alternative side of things acupuncture can work wonders in "mystery illness" cases and it may at least improve the circulation enough to stop her head swelling when it is down on the grass for a few hours!
 
has she had a cushings test?


That was the question I was going to ask - the hairiness, weight loss, strange backend (perhaps due to muscle wastage) along with the age of the horse, would make Cushings a strong possibility. Cushings is basically a benign tumour on the pituitary gland and affects the hormones, so the other symptoms you list could possibly be linked.

I would definitely ask the vet whether the horse has been tested for Cushings.
 
I should clarify that,

it was partly because what blitzandbobs said re pituitary/adrenal tumour.

so am going on long coat, weight loss, odd back end, am sure that facial swellings have been mentioned before re cushings (maybe with eaglestones motor :confused:) as it can cause a general suppression of the immune system I think.

eta tgm explained it more than me, I just thought I ought to say why I was asking. She might be a bit atypical which is why vet hasn't tested.
 
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