Can anyone throw any light on our mare's scary behaviour please?

alicedove

alicedove

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We have had our 15.3hh TB type ISH mare for around 10 weeks. 10 yrs old. She comes from a pure showjumping background, with the previous owners for 6 yrs and I knew people on her yard. She had taken tinys out on hacks, etc. Seemed fast but safe. No horror storys. Had a foal in the past. I was told she doesn't get affected by season. Has hunted.

All the time we've had her she has been adorable, careful with us on the ground, she is being shared between me and my 13yr old daughter. She did lift a leg when practising formation riding, but it's a mare, and you can sort of understand it.

I hacked her out and re-schooled on the flat. My daughter did some PC rallies, pony things, such as little fences, bareback fun and even handy pony (had a job to get on though!)

Mistakes I think I made:- 1. She was jumped in a saddle which I think didn't fit all that well. 2. We kept her alone (until now) and I believe it didn't suit her. 3. On recommendation I had my daughter ride her over fences in a Market Harborough, but she pulled her mouth.

The horror part is: she went off to camp, about two weeks ago. On the first morning, (I wasn't there) first lesson, she was taken out into open fields after a few minutes, in a group, apparently she stood up a couple of times which the instructor put down to the Market Harb. then, after doing a couple of fences, she bucked my daughter off, then TURNED and kicked her, sheer luck, on the helmet, so she has recovered. I hear from various sources, and I can see it too, that my daughter keeps on getting left behind and yanking the horse in the mouth.

Since then, she has kicked a gelding on a hack.

I now have a companion for her, she has come into season and is not kicky now. She is really dopey and sweet, my daughter has ridden her again, and she is getting on fine. I am riding her. An instructor has been on to her about not socking her in the mouth, she's not getting left behind. I'm going to bring her on very slowly and keep riding in the meantime.

It is, of course really frightening and I will have her back shoes off next week.

I just wondered whether anyone else has experience of this, did the horse do it again? Did it mean it? Do mares do this in a calculated manner? Would it be her season, and stress from being alone and then arriving at camp? Or purely intelligence, of having that annoying pulling person off then landing them one? Or did she not know what that "thing" was that had landed on the ground beside her?
 
to be honest it sounds like a culmination of things pi$$ed the mare off and she was a unhappy bunny for a while.

hopefully with a friend and sympathetic riding she will be fine.
mares can get offended very easily.

she probably lashed out at your daughter because she was lashing out generally - cross and tempremantal - not actually calculating.
 
I would say, and not trying to sound nasty but it may be something to do with the points you have made... Mare's are still entire, they are not like geldings.

I think as you said take it really slowly, remove the market harb. and be gentle with her, you need to negotiate with her not tell her as far as I am concerned.. Good luck..
 
Marec can be mareish. out of interest, with something that has been showjumped for 10 years, how much work is she now in? And why is she now being ridden in a MH?

IMO, she may feel restricted and therefore extra protective of her space. I woudl take off the MH for a start. I would also ride daily and if you cant ride lunge. I think mares need to be occupied and you ahve to be consistent with them. The camp think is more than likely over excitement - and also the excitement/nerves of your daughter.

Keep the back shoes on. The horse has probably never done 'formation riding' and again, is protective of her space (mares often are) just be aware that she may not be suitable for this activity.

A companion is also good. Horses are herd animals.

Whatever you do, keep it consistent. Riding, groundwork, everything - approach it in a calm and routine manner. Mares, to me are harder to handle than geldings, but once you have 'cracked' them they are super. They just take longer to build a relationship with.

Good luck!
 
I knwo you're not meaning to be nasty.

I think the three of us ALL need some reassurance, mare, me and daughter!

I like the idea of being gentle with her, and the "generally lashing out"

I really wouldn't like to sell her as she has met all our needs in a horse and been great apart form that. I can hack alone, she's fun, etc.

I have already got her a brilliant Albion. Took Market Harb off and due to flat work she has almost stopped ever throwing her head up in the air, which, looking back on it, she did most days before.

I think my daughter needs to get used to the speed of her, which is just her build and wonderfully forward therefore much nicer than something that may stop when you're not expecting it!
 
I think you have answered your own questions. The mare was fine until she was forced to jump by someone who socked her in the jaw. Your daughter was probably lucky not to have been bucked off before. I would have thought that if she was sweet to handle on the ground, that she did not intend to kick your daughter.

If you add up:

1. badly fitting saddle
2. being kept alone then suddenly immersed in a group
3. being socked in the mouth
4. using market harborough

And you have addressed these issues, then I would think she will be fine now.
 
Of course you're not meaning to be nasty. I am very grateful for your comments, thank you...

I think the three of us ALL need some reassurance, mare, me and daughter!

I like the idea of being gentle with her, and the thought that she was simply "generally lashing out"

I really wouldn't like to sell her as she has met all our needs in a horse and been great apart from that. I can hack alone, she's fun, etc.

I have already got her a brilliant Albion Saddle. Took Market Harb off and due to flat work she has almost stopped ever throwing her head up in the air, which, looking back on it, she did on most days before.

I think my daughter needs to get used to the speed of her, which is just her make-up and she is wonderfully forward therefore much nicer than something that may stop when you're not expecting it!
 
Thank you all for your comments and help.

She was indeed being ridden every day before and now is ridden about five days a week. I could always lunge and ride so that its every single day.

Strange how my posting went up twice! Do you all keep getting thrown off website due to busy site?

The Market Harb was recommended to me by an experienced trainer, but as you say it would have to be in the hands of an angel... and I have noticed more recently that my daughter rides less well than I thought. Probably worse since the shock. It is definitely relegated to the dusty cupboard never to be seeing the light of day with us. I'd rather she gets a face full of head than hoof.

I would like to hunt the mare, I have been told she is fine, with all milling around her, in line and everything. I shall put a red ribbon on in case!
 
As owner of a few girls, I'd suggest that they are different to geldings, and closer to stallions in their 'sharpness'. This is not necessarily a bad thing as mares can be cleverer and safer, and often have seem to have the inclination to look after their humans more. However, your daughter has, in the mare's opinion, been abusing the relationship and the mare is telling her this.
Your daughter needs lunge lessons to give her independence of seat and reins....and I'd put the softest possible bit in your horse's mouth - a nathe or rubber snaffle for example. And use a cavesson so she can evade the bit if your daughter gets 'handy'. Daughter also needs to 'make friends' with the mare by doing things the mare enjoys - hacking or whatever...so the mare forgives her!
Sounds like you are a good rider, so it might pay for you to ride her more in the short term.
Congratulations on your rationale objective view of the mare and your daughter - difficult in the circumstances.
On a bright note, once your daughter and the mare sort out their contract, they'll be safe as houses and have a great time.
Good luck and sorry for the novel
S
smile.gif
 
i have only ever once heard of a horse kicking the rider it has just thrown off... it is incredibly unusual, and i'd guess it was an accident, tbh... panic at having something land right beside her.
horses HATE being socked in the teeth when jumping... nothing puts them off more, so i'd put a headcollar with reins on under the bridle, and make sure your daughter pulls on those if she has to. give her a neck-loop thingy (old stirrup leather around the neck) too, if they're good enough for William Fox-Pitt (he uses them) they're good enough for me! get her to grab that as the mare takes off.
Market Harboroughs are horrible gadgets, even worse in the wrong hands, i'm sorry to say. please don't put her in another gadget.
most mares are incredibly forgiving, in my experience. don't despair.
 
I agree with previous advice - use a rubber or plastic bit and a neck strap when your daughter rides.
I think the kick was probably just the mare lashing out in general and not specifically to hit your daughter.
Mares are intelligent and sensitive but that's why I love them!
Good luck with this horse.
 
Agree with most of the above. Do get a neck strap or even better a hunter breastplate (more secure) - this way your daughter has something besides the bit to hold onto in the event she gets left behind. Can't really understand why you put a MH on a 10 year old who until that point seems to have been doing stuff perfectly well without it but hopefully now you've removed it things will return to normal. Good luck.
 
What was happening when the trainer told me to put MH on, was that the mare was "taking over" into the fence, quite rightly, as she is experienced and safe, just a bit fast. She was putting her head in the air, probably due to rein pressure from my daughter (bless her, she had nowhere to go, head up MH took her back down....awful)

When I got her, she was in running mart, which was a little short and had learned to lean on it, upwards, so her muscles were a bit upside down.

It was funny when I rode her without, to begin with , her head felt all "lost" she waved it about, in a upward direction, waiting for the pull, not getting that, she, very willingly, wondered whether to go downwards, and now spends most of the time like that, very sweet.....

I am relieved at a lot of your comments, thank you. I have been really worried about it, wondering whether, should my daughter fall off, any old how, she may kick out at her again. I do like the sound of your knowledge, we are putting her in a short neckstrap (stirrup leather) halfway up the neck, which I am drumming into my daughter to grab at on take-off. One thing, she is listening better now!

The horse likes the jump when this neckstrap is grabbed.

Much respect towards the mare now, and thank you all for your positive comments on females and how great the relationship can be with trust. That is a positive note.

I have been lungeing my daughter too, without reins, I shall definitely keep this up.
 
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