Can Collapsed Heels be rectified without going barefoot?

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EquestrianFairy

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My horse has 3 brilliant feet and one bad one, it has a crack from the coronet band all the way down (this was from before i had her) and a collapsed heel on the same foot.

*Touches wood* this has never caused any lameness yet, she is young and i dont want it to cause any in the future but i know how this can cause rotation and longer term problems so i want to get it sorted. I tried one farrier and i was unhappy with his work, during the time he was doing her feet she wasnt in much ridden work however she will start to be brought back into work again and i have found a farrier recommended from my vet who will start working with her.

Is it possible to correct issues such as collapsed heels without going barefoot?

Its not the end of the world but she is very stressy and very unhappy barefoot as she is flat footed with thin soles so i would probably opt to leave her off work for a while longer if this was the recommended route. She cribs when stressed/unhappy and in turn this can cause her ulcers to return- you can see the circle im possibly facing.
 
It depends how collapsed the heals are. You need to find a farrier you trust to advise you on that. Sounds to me if she has thin soles barefoot won't be an option for you anyway if you want to keep her in work. You may have to explore new options such as boots, wraps and stick ons.
 
Thin soles are not genetic. They are a management issue. Often but not always dietary. Combined with the collapsed heel - you have some homework to do. I've never seen a CH properly fixed with shoes, just some short term 'pretty' patch up jobs.
 
Oberon said:
Sounds like you have a horse with sick feet and sick gut :(
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A sick foot and a very sensitive gut :(

I paid over £2k to get her ulcers gone and ideally i dont want to go down the route of them returning because of one hoof but i dont want a lame horse with rotation either.
Shes too much of a sweetie and shes much too happy now for anything to jepordise it- i need to find a happy medium somehow.
 
Are you saying she cribbed and was more stressed barefoot? Is this because she was sore so you kept her stabled for longer? Just trying to understand the link :)
 
TigerTail said:
Are you saying she cribbed and was more stressed barefoot? Is this because she was sore so you kept her stabled for longer? Just trying to understand the link :)
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No, she cribs in general- thats her vice.
If she is barefoot she is sore (flat footed/thin soles) and as such she cribs and stresses much more.. i only know this from when she lost a shoe and my farrier was away for a week. The change in her behaviour for that week when she was barefoot on one shoe was immense and i dont fancy trying that out voluntarily :)
 
LucyPriory said:
Thin soles are not genetic. They are a management issue. Often but not always dietary. Combined with the collapsed heel - you have some homework to do. I've never seen a CH properly fixed with shoes, just some short term 'pretty' patch up jobs.
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Ok, this is interesting.

Can i quote her diet and see what people think?
 
Ok losing one shoe, especially if its pulled and made her sore, is very different to going bare on either fronts/hinds/both with preprepared knowledge/diet/environment etc so please don't get the previous one stuck in your mind as what happens :)

Post up the diet and lets see some piccys of the feet :D
 
Mines never did despite the best efforts of some of the most highly regarded farriers in the area.

In fact they got worse, it seemed like once they hit a tipping point they went into a downward spiral that nothing we did with shoes could reverse.

On a 'barefoot diet' my tb is much less stressy and grumpy and a scoop of brewers yeast does wonders for his gut as well as his feet so it might not hurt to review this whatever you decide to do about the shoes.
 
EquestrianFairy said:
A sick foot and a very sensitive gut :(

I paid over £2k to get her ulcers gone and ideally i dont want to go down the route of them returning because of one hoof but i dont want a lame horse with rotation either.
Shes too much of a sweetie and shes much too happy now for anything to jepordise it- i need to find a happy medium somehow.
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Unfortunately it sounds like it's more than one foot you have a problem with. Flat feet and thin soles are indicative of unhealthy feet all round, as mentioned above. Post the diet, there may be some changes you can make to improve things :).
 
My horse is a classic example of a " Thin soled TB, couldn,t possibly go barefoot" When he first came out of shoes he was very sore, that is when boots and pads are invaluable, but with the correct diet things have changed his feet are growing down stronger and at a better angle, the soles have thickened and his frogs have opened up and look much healthier now!
If given the chance there feet really can change!
 
Good point TigerTail, i should bear that in mind!

Right- her diet is minimal sugar and high oil because of her sensitive gut and previous ulcer issues. Shes been on the diet below for around 10 months.

Magnesium Oxide (pure)
Biotin (Pure)
Pink Power (the one with the added stuff for joints)
Alpha Oil Chaff
Baileys Conditioning Cubes

-In winter she will have allan and page calm and condition (beet) normally to keep her weight stable.

Shes out 24/7 in summer and in at night in winter with hayledge.

Thoughts? Thanks guys.
 
The baileys cubes are really quite high in starch, and the calm and condition, whilst lower, is still too high for most horses.

What sort of grass is she out on? 24/7 grass is often a problem for horses, particularly if it's on fertilised pasture with low diversity in grass and herb species.

It's hard with an ulcer prone horse, though, I understand. My flat footed, thin soled, collapsed heeled and ulcery TB has been out 24/7 since June (barefoot). He has struggled slightly with the grass, despite it being old fibrous stuff, but still has managed to improve his feet somewhat.

I feed sugarbeet (with the molasses rinsed off), bran, oats and linseed. With that he gets a mineral supplement and yea sacc. I've noticed an improvement in his tolerance levels for grass since I introduced the yea sacc.

It's doable, and he's now comfortable over all but the toughest surfaces, despite still having weak feet. I failed to improve his feet in shoes though, so can't offer any advice for that.
 
Anything alfalfa based may cause issues - seen many any times. Ditto Baileys and haylage. Yea sacc 1026 is useful for helping put weight on stressy cribby horses. You can double dose for a quick boost. Many clients find their thin horses put weight on with the basic 'barefoot' diet plus Yea Sacc. Obv every horse different and dietary changes should be made slowly over time and horse monitored.
 
So if i was to make some changes to her diet to help her feet what would they need to be?

keeping in mind, she needs to have relatively low sugar and high oil ideally?

I dont know what the grass is like- its an old dairy farm if that helps?

Thanks again all.

PS: just realised i wrote hayledge- shes on hay. She cant have haylege because of the sugar, sorry.
 
Here's what I feed

Ad lib hay or haylage (depending on what the yard offer)

Unmolassed sugarbeet
Bran (but only because of phosphorous levels in the area so wouldn't recommend)
Coolstance Copra (good for added extra condition, non heating and low sugar but quite high is oil and protein)
Micronised linseed.

Quantities of the above vary on the time of year work etc

To that I add -
minerals balanced to forage (an alternative would be forage plus winter balancer or pro hoof from progressive earth if you want a premixed)
Brewers yeast (for the yeasts and biotin among other vits and amino acids)
Joint supplement.

Works for us and it makes me smile now when people tell me how lucky I am that my tb has naturally good feet.
 
Criso's basic diet is a good one ^.

Ex dairy grass is likely to be a big issue. Yea sacc may help with that. How much MagOx do you feed?

Haylage is lower in sugar than hay, though :confused:. But Possibly it's the acid levels that are a problem for your horse?
 
TwoStroke said:
Criso's basic diet is a good one ^.

Ex dairy grass is likely to be a big issue. Yea sacc may help with that. How much MagOx do you feed?

Haylage is lower in sugar than hay, though :confused:. But Possibly it's the acid levels that are a problem for your horse?
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I feed one scoop which is think is 5mls but dont quote me- i feed whatever the suggested amount is for her weight according to the pro earth people as thats who i buy it off.

So: I could swap the PP for Pro balance and add Micronised linseed as well
-keep the mag ox also.
Would i need brewers yeast as well?

Look to change the nuts and chaff perhaps?
 
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EquestrianFairy said:
I feed one scoop which is think is 5mls but dont quote me- i feed whatever the suggested amount is for her weight according to the pro earth people as thats who i buy it off.

So: I could swap the PP for Pro balance and add Micronised linseed as well
-keep the mag ox also.

Look to change the nuts and chaff perhaps?
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Just looked it up on Pro Earth's ebay page ;). Recommended is 2g per 100kg bodyweight, so one 15ml scoop = 10g, recommended dose for a 500kg horse.

I would probably feed 25g myself. Excess magnesium is excreted, so there's no danger associated with feeding this amount, and the extra may help your horse cope with the grass.

Yes, I would change the nuts - linseed, copra or maybe rice bran (such as Saracen's Equijewel) would be better for condition. That in a base of speedibeet or similar. I don't personally bother with chaff, but if you want to feed it I'd look for something molasses free and ease up on the alfalfa. Personally I've found it just wastes bucket space for my TB, though.
 
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Ditto - its the acidity of the haylage that can be a problem. But OP you feed hay so that's not an issue. If your hay is from a consistent source a proximate analysis would be a good investment. Eg our local hay wholesaler and two 'experts' declared some hay low sugar with the (useless) sniff test. It came out at 21% combined sugar/starch (mostly sugar) and further (more expensive) analysis proved it unfit for equine consumption. It was so high in sugar that no amount of soaking could make it safe for my horse. (Mould and other nasties aside) lots of low sugar hay is great for ulcer prone cribbers - but do check the sugar.
Unmolassed sugar beet is great - although I have known some fizz up on it. Micronised linseed, magox (calmag), table salt and a quality mineral mix - and yea sacc as before.
 
I have 3 TB's, all barefoot, all had 'typical TB feet' going into it - thin soles, long toes and collasped heels - all also showed signs of ulcers/gut discomfort. All now b/f and sound, albeit at various stages of their rehab and in differing levels of work. All 3 have soles so hard you can 'tap' them with the hoof pick and they feel like they are made of rock!

Personally mine did not tolerate Bailey's cubes or C&C, too much starch and sugar, went straight to their bellies and made then horribly uncomfortable, one started windsucking, one biting, all got backwards and girthy. Not pleasant. This was before being b/f so I can't comment on the effects on their feet. Before I pulled shoes I had already been feeding a really b/f friendly diet to them and found the transitions all went fairly well!

I feed unmollassed beet as it is higher in calories than the fast fibre that most will recommend, Alfa A Oil as Alfalfa can help ulcery horses as it helps neutrilise the acids in the stomach, EquineAnswers 365 complete as it's an all in one supplement and Linseed. My boy in harder work gets Saracen Re-leve and Omega Rice to aid his stamina and energy levels. Oh, and they all have a salt lick. The result of that is fat, shiny, calm but still energetic, horses with good feet and happy tummys :)

My mare was the most difficult to transition, partly due to a navicular diagnosis and partly due to her particularly sensitive stomach - I added an ulcer supplement/gut balancer (Protexin) to her feed while we were having to work her b/f initially to just make sure the stresses and strains didn't get too much, she was pretty much sound in 6 weeks and is now cooking me a foal before she comes back to work next year. She is totally sound in the field now over all different terrain, and I can genuinely say she was crippled when we first took her shoes off, and pretty damn lame with them on too. I'm very, very pleased with her heels which have reappeared after disappearing in shoes, and were part of the cause of her navicular diagnosis.

B/F isn't an easy option by any stretch, you will find there will be lots of things you have always done that you will have to change but it's worth it for a sound horse, believe me! I'd look at your diet fairly seriously, get on good digestive supplement and get ready to do a lot of walking.
 
To answer your original question - yes (and fyi 5 of mine are barefoot 1 shod for her wellbeing) have a look at the Epona polymer shoe. If you and your horse prefer shoes that is fine, a polymer like Epona (rather than steel shoes) supports the whole foot and protects thin soles, glued on with 1 or 2 nails per side does minimal damage to the walls and allows you to continue your present level of work.
Boots & pads can be done but some horses (like my mare) are too thin skinned to wear them for the required number of hours and may need shoes. Sort your diet and thin soles then try barefoot if you want to :-)
 
There are plenty of boot options these days and with the right fit/brand rubbing no longer need be an issue. A good fitter will have lots of tips and tricks that will help. Plus they don't have to be on for hours - unless you want them to be - again there are options.
 
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