Can electronic massage be damaging sometimes?

Wagtail

Wagtail

Horse servant
Joined
2 December 2010
Messages
14,815
Location
Lincs
Visit site
Is it possible for an electronic massage product to aggravate a condition such as kissing spines? Could a horse that was recovering very well from having five spinal processes removed have his symptoms return due to intensive use of such a product? I can't imagine how it could cause the same pain as the KS but could it?
 
In a word yes, IMO.....the supraspinous ligament runs over and attaches to the dorsal processes, so if these have been removed/partially removed the SL won't have the stability it did previously and needs careful rehab in order to regain its strength and support function.

The problem with electronic massage is that unlike when a pair of hands perform the exercise there is no feed-back loop. The machine/pad or whatever does not have the same sensory feel as an experienced pair of hands and cannot mitigate/change its pressure/action accordingly.

The above is particularly true as I see you use the words 'intensive use of such a product.'
 
Yes, especially if used 'intensively'! A friend of mine had a lot of problems after one was used on her horse for far too long on too high a setting, poor boy was in so much pain he threw himself on the ground :(
 
Oh no! I was making really good progress with my horse. And was back riding him but the vets had recommended some sports massage. Before the op he was unridable and even unsaddleable. As part of a clinical trial I was using a massage rug on my boy for 2 x half hour a day for 2 weeks as recommended by the product director. After I moved it up to intensive, he started head tossing and so I sent the product back. I tried to saddle him this morning and his old symptoms of painful muscle spasm are back. He completely flipped. I am gutted. Do you think I have done permanent damage? I certainly will not be recommending it for KS cases!
 
sarelis said:
Yes, especially if used 'intensively'! A friend of mine had a lot of problems after one was used on her horse for far too long on too high a setting, poor boy was in so much pain he threw himself on the ground :(
Click to expand...

Did he recover eventually?
 
One of the reasons a vet has to agree to a physio/chiro visit is in case the treatment might be contra-indicated due to an existing problem. If you have a "how to" massage book there is a list of conditions for which you are not supposed to use massage, so I guess the electronic one would be the same.
 
is this the same clinical trial I am on I wonder? - I too have rug system and been using it for 2 weeks 2 x 30 mins a day on intensive but mine has responded really well to it - she has really softened her muscles and helping her to let go of the tension thru muscles and enable her to work pain free therefore working better on lunge and under saddle - mine hasnt had op though - she had injections 5 weeks ago. Goes back to see specialist next week.

She really does visably relax on it and has been on intensive setting pretty much from begining
 
kezimac said:
is this the same clinical trial I am on I wonder? - I too have rug system and been using it for 2 weeks 2 x 30 mins a day on intensive but mine has responded really well to it - she has really softened her muscles and helping her to let go of the tension thru muscles and enable her to work pain free therefore working better on lunge and under saddle - mine hasnt had op though - she had injections 5 weeks ago. Goes back to see specialist next week.

She really does visably relax on it and has been on intensive setting pretty much from begining
Click to expand...

Sounds like the same thing. Glad it's working for your horse. :)
 
Yes, to an extent, but he was never rideable again :( He was eventually diagnosed with a degenerative disease of the spine. This may have been present before or because of the treatment, we will never know as he was PTS a couple of years ago :(
 
I use equissage hand unit (not pad) on my ks boy and he is fine with it, but I only do 15 mins if I think he has slight soreness anywhere. If I think there is a more serious problem, I get my chiro to check him out and use hers to back up any treatment she gives as she is rather more experienced. The first year after his surgery all of his massage was done by hand by what is called body working???? That worked brilliant for him, my chiro does deep massage on him but since him op I won't allow the use of the technique where they throw them in case it is detrimental! My horse had his suspensory cut in 3 places so we used massage to help the healing process and reduce scar tissue but in a very gentle way.
 
Wagtail said:
...the vets had recommended some sports massage... As part of a clinical trial I was using a massage rug on my boy for 2 x half hour a day for 2 weeks as recommended by the product director. After I moved it up to intensive, he started head tossing and so I sent the product back. I tried to saddle him this morning and his old symptoms of painful muscle spasm are back. He completely flipped. I am gutted. Do you think I have done permanent damage? I certainly will not be recommending it for KS cases!
Click to expand...

I would be VERY surprised if any vet that recommended sports massage had in mind the use of a rug. :( Sports massage is very targeted and deep and needs to be tailored to the individual. I would have thought that a physio or ESMA member or EBW member would have been more appropriate.

I am also surprised that, if the people running the clinical trial were aware of your horses condition. they then recommended/condoned the continued intense use of the rug. If they did, I would be gunning for them BIG TIME.....IMO it shows how little A&P/physio knowledge they have and why such things can be dangerous.

I think your next step is to go back to your vet and find a reputable physio to work together as a TEAM to rehab your horse. In the meantime, PLEASE, forget the rug.
 
gunnergundog said:
I would be VERY surprised if any vet that recommended sports massage had in mind the use of a rug. :( Sports massage is very targeted and deep and needs to be tailored to the individual. I would have thought that a physio or ESMA member or EBW member would have been more appropriate.

I am also surprised that, if the people running the clinical trial were aware of your horses condition. they then recommended/condoned the continued intense use of the rug. If they did, I would be gunning for them BIG TIME.....IMO it shows how little A&P/physio knowledge they have and why such things can be dangerous.

I think your next step is to go back to your vet and find a reputable physio to work together as a TEAM to rehab your horse. In the meantime, PLEASE, forget the rug.
Click to expand...

I did mention that I was using the rug to the surgeon at Rossdales and she made no comment either way, just acknowledged. However, I stopped using it two weeks ago when my horse developed head tossing. I had my chiro to him and his poll had a slight rotation to the right. His pelvis was slightly left. She made some adjustments and his head tossing went completely. I then just took it easy for a few days before Friday, when I decided to ride him for the first time in two weeks. That was when we had the episode with the saddle and I realised he had his old symptoms back. I will be talking to the vets after the bank holiday and ask for advice on where to go from here.

Thank you so much everyone for your useful advice. I just hope that if it was the rug that was responsible, that I haven't done him permanent damage. I am just gutted.
 
would suggest to me that the chiro may well have been more of an issue than the massage since it was more after that that you had the first ridden problems.
 
SusieT said:
would suggest to me that the chiro may well have been more of an issue than the massage since it was more after that that you had the first ridden problems.
Click to expand...

I must admit that had entered my head. She did do quite a big maneuver with his hind end, but stayed purposely well clear of his back. His acrobatics in the field though are pretty extreme. He is far more 'expressive' than most horses.
 
So sorry to hear about your boy, its awful to see them go backwards when you think youre progressing.
I don't have experience of kissing spines, but I'm wondering if the rehab so far was a bit too much for him, and also if he might have some remembered pain? so if he was getting a twinge from the saddle ( did you saddle him? ) then hes thought it was going to hurt alot more and freaked?
Is he progressed enough to lunge/ long rein? Maybe he could do that until you can talk to the vet? Can he wear a roller or does that upset him as well?
Its all abit guess work, and I don't think you should beat yourself up, at the very least, you did what you thought would help...
Wait and see what your vets say after the wkend when you can talk to them.'
Wish you best of luck with him.
Kx
 
Circe said:
So sorry to hear about your boy, its awful to see them go backwards when you think youre progressing.
I don't have experience of kissing spines, but I'm wondering if the rehab so far was a bit too much for him, and also if he might have some remembered pain? so if he was getting a twinge from the saddle ( did you saddle him? ) then hes thought it was going to hurt alot more and freaked?
Is he progressed enough to lunge/ long rein? Maybe he could do that until you can talk to the vet? Can he wear a roller or does that upset him as well?
Its all abit guess work, and I don't think you should beat yourself up, at the very least, you did what you thought would help...
Wait and see what your vets say after the wkend when you can talk to them.'
Wish you best of luck with him.
Kx
Click to expand...

Thanks. I have some more positive news. I started to think more carefully about what happened on Friday and how maybe it was remembered pain. I have been back riding him without problems until the head tossing started on the lunge and ridden, so I ceased the riding and just lunged. Head tossing stopped after the chiro visit and so on Friday I decided to ride him again after a break of 2 weeks. Because he had head tossed the last time I decided to put a running martingale on just in case as the head tossing was very violent when it happened. I tied him up and he tensed as soon as he felt the martingale. He had not worn one since before his op, so maybe that took him back to what he felt like before the surgery. Added to that, I immediately tightened the girth to the second hole (whereas I have been just hooking it on to the first hole to start with and gradually tightened it to the fourth hole to ride). Then he freaked.

So after thinking about it some more this morning, I decided to try him in the pessoa (that he couldn't tolerate at all before his op) and he was fine! So I have decided to step back a few weeks and just long rein and do pessoa work with him then gradually introduce the saddle again and see what happens. I am more hopeful after this morning.
 
Do you mean equissage

or equilibrium one???

then i would call them and ask them they know their product better than any 1
if they say not you could use magnetic therapy instead
 
Leviathan said:
Do you mean equissage

or equilibrium one???

then i would call them and ask them they know their product better than any 1
if they say not you could use magnetic therapy instead
Click to expand...

No, it's neither of those products. I don't wish to name them though for obvious reasons. He was actually doing very well when I was using his armadillo rug so I am going to go back to that now. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top