Can horse slaughter ever be humane?

Meowy Catkin

Meowy Catkin

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The question of horse slaughter in the USA has come up again (I'm on another forum with lots of north American members).

At the moment no abattoir in the US take horses, so all US horses bound for slaughter go to Mexico or Canada. Now I personally feel that such a long journey pre slaughter is a welfare issue and it doesn't seem like any significant number of equine lives are being saved due to the ban. However, the question is, can horse slaughter ever be humane? Even if the answer is 'no' is that a good enough reason for keeping the ban in place when you are just shipping the horses further and then slaughtering them anyway?
 
yes it is humane when it is done close to source with little or no journey involved and by monitored good shots who dispatch them quickly there may be an element of panic for a few moments but it is a very short time compared to being travelled in inhumane circumstances for hours at a time. The biggest detriment to horses welfare was the closure of local abbatoirs and the loss of meat money for some owners. Welfare is compromised now because the only free way to get rid of a horse is to dump it and I know the majority of people find this horrific but since the loss of abbatoirs more horses starve to death each year than ever before
 
windand rain said:
yes it is humane when it is done close to source with little or no journey involved and by monitored good shots who dispatch them quickly there may be an element of panic for a few moments but it is a very short time compared to being travelled in inhumane circumstances for hours at a time. The biggest detriment to horses welfare was the closure of local abbatoirs and the loss of meat money for some owners. Welfare is compromised now because the only free way to get rid of a horse is to dump it and I know the majority of people find this horrific but since the loss of abbatoirs more horses starve to death each year than ever before
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This exactly!
 
Personally I feel all animal slaughter is inhumane and is the main reason I don't eat meat. As much as horse slaughter angers me, it also slightly confuses me as to why we can sometimes give more empathy to certain animals being slaughtered over others. But anyway back to the point, I think every slaughter is inhumane, but the long distance transport is frankly torture. Windand rain makes a very valid point, and sadly there are too many ways that horses suffer abuse.
 
In a perfect world (for me) the animals intended for slaughter would be in their own barn and everyone gets brought into a shute for a bucket of feed (like the dairy cows who have robot milkers will do) and get a silent bullet into the back of the head by a professional, then they get dropped out and processed. That doesnt happen because they don't want them to have anything in their systems so get starved for 24hrs etc along with the long journeys and all the health and safety blabla.

I do eat meat but i don't think any slaughter can be humane - you can shock them but sometimes it wont work or they regain conscience before they have their throat slit.

To be honest i just put it to the back of my mind. What else can i do? I tried the veggie thing for 5 years, and realistically its a never ending thing. You dont eat meat but still have dairy and leather etc? Well thats inhumane too. So you need to be vegan...and really who has the time or the money for that. Its a big comitment, and if someone wants to do that then super you go for it. But its not for me. Im all or nothing.
 
In some ways I think it can be more humane than other species (over here at least) because many are handleable so can be led in on their own and dispatched swiftly and easily.
Equi I don't quite understand what you mean about animals for slaughter being in their own barn?

It is fair to say that in general slaughter operations in the USA are a world apart from the plants in this country, but anything has to be better than travelling to Canada/Mexico, I don't think the number of horses with nowhere else to go has decreased.
 
When we took our pigs to the local abatoir, the lovely chap who runs the place recognised that they were 'pets' and gave them a scratch behind the ears, after which they happily followed him in. The biggest trauma they faced was me sneaking up on them to pierce their ears with the (mandatory by law) ear tags, which they quickly forgave me for. They weren't upset at all.

If I could offer my horses an end like that, I'd be happy to... frankly, having seen what modern medicine considers to be 'palliative care', I'd be OK going quickly like that myself.
 
pennyturner said:
When we took our pigs to the local abatoir, the lovely chap who runs the place recognised that they were 'pets' and gave them a scratch behind the ears, after which they happily followed him in. The biggest trauma they faced was me sneaking up on them to pierce their ears with the (mandatory by law) ear tags, which they quickly forgave me for. They weren't upset at all.

If I could offer my horses an end like that, I'd be happy to... frankly, having seen what modern medicine considers to be 'palliative care', I'd be OK going quickly like that myself.
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the problem is, as ester said, slaughter houses in the US were nothing like how you describe-they were horrific. just now they have a horrific journey followed by a horrific slaughter house.

can it be done humanely? yes-of course on a welfare level. could it be done humanely and cost effectively-I expect the US's answer would be no. I am not squeamish about the species-they should all be culled humanely but I don't have a problem with the idea of slaughter in itself.'
 
Can I just add that the cattle going for slaughter at our local abattoir are not starved. At all. They are given ad-lib hay. It's not pleasant to think of any animals being slaughtered, but in this day and age surely we can do it effectively and humanely.
 
We can but a lot still work on money being the bottom line. The main difference in the US is sheer size and speed of production compared to what we have over here (400 cattle an hour)- obviously it isn't very 'hands on' at that point, although some of our chicken lines are pretty quick too.
 
A friend lent me a really interesting book by a woman called Temple Grandin, which had some very interesting things to say on the subject of American slaughterhouses. Her work focuses on cattle rather than horses, and I know very little about cattle, but very thought provoking all the same. I think it was called 'Animals in Translation' or something similar. I won't try and explain it because I will fail and just make it sound weird, but if the subject interests you it's worth getting hold of it.
 
ester said:
In some ways I think it can be more humane than other species (over here at least) because many are handleable so can be led in on their own and dispatched swiftly and easily.
Equi I don't quite understand what you mean about animals for slaughter being in their own barn?

It is fair to say that in general slaughter operations in the USA are a world apart from the plants in this country, but anything has to be better than travelling to Canada/Mexico, I don't think the number of horses with nowhere else to go has decreased.
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As in their own yard...most beef cattle are out in fields yes, but they still have a barn they will know and it wont be too stressful for them.
 
Oh so slaughter on site?

Sorry I wasn't sure if you meant small indidivual barns, or separate those only for slaughter etc hence wanting the check :).

TBH the plan is usually to allow settle time in lairage pre slaughter, as stressed meat is never good meat and hence why they are often fed (and must be after 12 hours there).
 
Micropony said:
A friend lent me a really interesting book by a woman called Temple Grandin, which had some very interesting things to say on the subject of American slaughterhouses. Her work focuses on cattle rather than horses, and I know very little about cattle, but very thought provoking all the same. I think it was called 'Animals in Translation' or something similar. I won't try and explain it because I will fail and just make it sound weird, but if the subject interests you it's worth getting hold of it.
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I have heard of her but haven't read any of her work, I should probably try to find the time.
 
There is plenty available online about TG's work too Faracat. It is interesting in that a lot of it is really quite simple and makes a difference - because it is simple it has been comparatively easy to install and use though. There is a quote that I haven't checked that 54% or all US abattoirs had used some of her designs, I suspect it has increased now.
 
I think that honestly, a lot of the better slaughter homes do a fine job if run professionally and with empathy for the animals on some level. Given the choice I would prefer to be a farm animal killed in a slaughterhouse than be a pensioner trapped in a nursing home or someone left to die a crippling death from cancer because there is no humane options for humans.

I have had horse 30 years and a few have been put to sleep using various methods. Of course, if there was some way for it to be done in a location they know that would be the best. And of course it should be as stressfree as it can possibly be.

But i think people anthropomorphise a massive amount thinking sheep on a cattle trailer are pondering their life and how it will end. They aren't. Any more than your horse thinks anything is different loading on a trailer to go to a vets to be put down. Animals live in the moment. If their last moments are governed by humane welfare legislation I have no issue with them being slaughtered.

I have a huge issue with people happily buying free-range eggs without having a clue what that industry actually entails. I would honestly prefer to be a horse going to slaughter and the momentary panic that entails (once it doesn't involve a long journey and is a well run slaughterhouse) than a 'free range, organic' egg provider.
 
Faracat said:
I have heard of her but haven't read any of her work, I should probably try to find the time.
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She has designed many slaughterhouses handling systems mainly in America but throughout the world. Just shows what somebody with Autism can achieve.
Contrary to beliefs stated above the USA has some of the best facilities in the world as in lots of things throughput does not mean its bad ,as bad facilities in themselves slow down throughput.
 
ester said:
Oh so slaughter on site?

Sorry I wasn't sure if you meant small indidivual barns, or separate those only for slaughter etc hence wanting the check :).

TBH the plan is usually to allow settle time in lairage pre slaughter, as stressed meat is never good meat and hence why they are often fed (and must be after 12 hours there).
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Cant be done with foodchain cattle unless its a casualty slaughter and done as a salvage exercise there are all sorts of regulations that stop it happening.
 
I know it can't be done with food chain cattle ;) which was why I didn't think that was what was meant initially and wanted to check - but I can see why equi brought that up if there is what she would need for it to be 'humane'. I would also suggest that taking each animal in to a bucket of nuts when it is not the best way to do it either unless it is something they are pre-trained for, nose to tail aka Temple's system suits them much better.

I would also like to clarify that I didn't say US facilities were bad just that they were very different to what we have over here which I felt was important to point out as people tend to think of any experience they have had but obviously the US is the country in discussion. Throughput certainly does come with its only issues, like hidepullers that can't be trusted not to fling bacteria all over the place ;).

Actually I think that is another important point, if transport is the issue I wonder how many equine slaughterhouses would be proposed (are we still looking at long journeys regardless) or are they going to share other facilities. I'm not totally au fait with what the situation was pre ban as I only became aware of it just after.
 
Local abattoir is definitely more humane however if the animals are used to travelling and well looked after it's no more inhumane than travelling them to a show.

My horse was destroyed at the vet. It was a horrible experience and I don't feel it was particularly humane either. Death isn't going to be pleasant but we eat animals, there isn't somewhere for all animals to live in nice conditions, so it's necessary. We just have to ensure it is as "good" as it can be imo.
 
Micropony said:
I would recommend it, and it's not 'serious academic work', i.e. you can happily read it in the bath after a heavy day.
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They even made a film about her which explains it as well ;-) It's linked to her own autism diagnosis as well.

Slaughter on site personally isn't a great option because you would essentially be creating a no go area on the farm. We had to have a pony shot at home a couple of weeks ago following a broken leg in the field. The wound itself bled quite a bit then there was more blood following her being shot (quick kill, no stress) outside the barn. Although the area was washed down all of the horses avoided it afterwards for several days.

We've taken horses to the local abattoir which is less than 10 miles away for us. They only take horses one day a month. You book a time slot, take the horse the unload, walk them off the lorry and are "done" within a few minutes. Unless your horse is a stressy traveller (ours haven't been) there has been no sign of stress in them - they've just thought they're off for a day out, most of the stress comes from them sensing it in us if anything. For me this is the most humane method, but I accept it's harder for "bulk deliveries" as it were.
 
I think if the slaughter house as good lairage, that's where they hold them until they are ready, its no different than standing in a stable at a sale or show.
As someone has said if you have a well handled animal it makes things a lot easier, but shute systems calm the animal down generally.
I do not know how they managed to get it banned in America, I know the argument was welfare, but they have just created a larger welfare problem.
Most of our equines could not go for human consumption anyway, so really for us its just economic disposal.
 
honetpot said:
I think if the slaughter house as good lairage, that's where they hold them until they are ready, its no different than standing in a stable at a sale or show.
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Lol have you been in an abattoir. It's not like being in a stable! They know immediately. I take sheep and cattle in most weeks. I hate it but it's part of my job and I know I am producing ethically produced meat. However I'm under no illusions that they don't know it's something to fear.
 
FfionWinnie said:
Lol have you been in an abattoir. It's not like being in a stable! They know immediately. I take sheep and cattle in most weeks. I hate it but it's part of my job and I know I am producing ethically produced meat. However I'm under no illusions that they don't know it's something to fear.
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When I have taken them they have walked straight in. I think when ever you handle some animals they have something to fear, your are catching them for the vet, to worm them or put them in a box with wheels and shut them in the dark.
I have a couple of sheep with fly strike, being treated is not very pleasant, they do not know its for their benefit and they are not queuing up to be treated. They are getting stressed twice a day. How much is too much stress, is repeat stress worse that one lot of stress even though the animal benefit in the long term?
I have a mare that every time she is handled she shows stress, to the point were she shakes, she is handled as little as possible and lives out in a group but if she could not be kept like this would handling her in what is seen in a normal way be cruel or be as bad as being at an abattoir? The hope that any stress should be relieved and mitigated as quickly as possible.
 
My son offered to take me to an abbatoir visit earlier this year. I said I could think of better days out! But everyone who went said it was very interesting. I think you will find that modern abbatoirs have put into place the recommendations of Temple Grandin, and it is certainly how our new cattle handling facilities were designed, within the constraints of the available space and facilities. This is the second abbatoir visit that the Farmers Club have been on, so although they are obviously "in the trade" the abbatoirs are content to have visitors to see the killing lines.

A female relative used to be a cattle buyer for an abbatoir, she used to choose the live animals on the farm and then see the carcases later. She said that she was happy with the job, the bit in between wasn't the nicest.

The nearest I have been to a slaughterhouse is taking a pony to Potters, but I know that cannot be representative of the whole trade. There you booked you time of arrival, the man came and took the pony by the leadrein led her in and there was a loud bang and it was over immediately. I don't think I would do the same again, but I have more options now.

Also another pony was put down at home by the local chap. It was immediate, the pony knew nothing as he had his face in a bucket of feed, so I would call that humane, probably he knew less than if he had had an injection from the vet.
 
I dont believe any slaughter house is humane. The animals (whatever they are - cows, sheep, horses, pigs etc.) are very scared in the situation. Anytime you round up animals like that in such a situation is extremely stressful for them and unpleasant. My OH has to go into slaughter houses sometimes due to his line of work, he's very pro-meat but even he admits they're ghastly places where he firmly believes the animals are scared and almost know they're going to die. The fact that the animals are squashed into lorries beforehand for god knows how many hours just increases their stress levels. I honestly believe the ONLY way you could ever say an animal was 100% humanely slaughtered would be if you had it out in the field as usual and shot it from a distance killing it instantly. It would know nothing and have had no stress up to that point. Obviously this is impossible therefore I would never say slaughter, no matter how well its controlled will ever be humane.
 
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