Can horses make things up?

[doodle]

Not sure if that is a suitable title.

So situation is this. Robin hacking today. He tiptoed past the combine cutter and we set off along the track round the fields. Just set off and since last time a large stone/small boulder appeared. Plenty of space to walk past but it was close. Robin (as expected) was horrified. Went to go past them went noooo I can’t. I asked again, he went to go, stopped last minute and stepped back horrified. Asked again and he said no. So I said fine, take a second and a breath, look at it and access. At this point he went “NO!” and threw himself sideways followed by another couple of plunges which put him in the sewn field. I got cross shouted “NO!” And booted him back on to track. He then walked past the killer boulder without a second glance, no bananaing or anythingI tell him he is good and we carry on.

He is an over dramatic idiot at most things and loves nothing better than a horrified reaction to whatever it. He will stand while a massive grain lorry whizzes past as he is busy spooking at the pot of flowers.

So of course I get to thinking. That reaction seemed put on. If he had had that reaction initially I would have said not. But he took the telling and walked past calmly rather than dashing past or had I “flooded” him too much which had led to the big reaction?

I’m not worried about what happened, it really was a very minor incident and we carried on and had a good ride. But wondering what he was thinking.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Sometimes I think me being confident that my horses are just being an idiot makes them feel like an idiot and they just tootle past whatever it was they were trying to convince me was scary.

A bit like how my mare refuses to go up to a gate to open it. WHY do you want me to walk into a closed gate? Are you stupid woman? We have this carry on for a few moments whilst she acts like an idiot and after I get her to stand, have a think, she goes well ya, actually we do need to go up to that gate in order to open it and continue our ride. If only you'd have said! And then does the gate perfectly.

 

[Sossigpoker]

No he's not making it up. Horses have a map of their surroundings in their minds and if anything changes from what is usual in those surroundings, that's assumed to be a predator. That's why cutting down a tree can be frightening as can the appearance of that stone - it wasn't there before, it's not a normal part of that location so it could be a predator.
He will have had genuine concern for his life so being "dramatic " about it is hardly surprising if you think of it from his point of view.

When I had my ID as a youngster nearly 15 years ago, he was terrified of puddles. I had him in early April and the track out of the yard was full of puddles. A nightmare! Every day we battled and tried to get past them. Then one day the weather changed and the puddles went away - major meltdown !! The puddles whilst terrifying were a part of the normal , so when they went away , that was a change from the normal so very scary!

 

[SOS]

He wasn’t making it up... something had changed. Horses are scared of ‘still’ things lurking in the bushes as that’s what a lion would do to a zebra. Or any predator to prey... stalk.

I do swear they can see the after life though. We had a creepy incident once where all three horses on a small private yard I was helping at refused to walk into one of the end stables one night. They were neighing and all on their toes as if there was a horse there. The one next door kept nickering to the stable. One ended up staying in the ‘spare’ stable as no one would walk in. Completely fine the next day. Realistically perhaps there was a smell or something had happened in there but I still like to think they can see ghosts!

 

[Fjord]

No he's not making it up. Horses have a map of their surroundings in their minds and if anything changes from what is usual in those surroundings, that's assumed to be a predator.

This! I've also heard that changes to environment came about because of something major happening, such as a storm knocking the tree down or an earthquake causing something to fall over. So an item out of the ordinary is worth being wary of because it means danger.

 

[doodle]

I totally get why he was frightened of it. It was more questioning why the reaction went from mild to leap about and when given a correction he walked past it without a look.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I totally get why he was frightened of it. It was more questioning why the reaction went from mild to leap about and when given a correction he walked past it without a look.

Because he was trying to tell you that it was very dangerous but you asserted yourself when you corrected him and he trusted you when you said that it was safe to go past.

 

[Caol Ila]

They all do that. Or most of them, in my experience. Their initial reaction to potential lion is avoidance, then a spook/spin when the human on their back pushes the issue, but if the human can ride confidently and tell them that it's not a lion and they should suck it up and go, they do.

Mark Rashid, in one of books, describes horses encountering a scary thing when at liberty -- meaning, no human trying to influence their behaviour. The horses shy or shirk around it, then stand and snort and eyeball it, then they approach, then they leap and plunge away, then tentatively approach. They go through this routine a few times. Eventually, they sniff the thing or walk past it and get on with their day. It's a mental processing thing. If you're a prey animal, you need to be wary of new things in your environment, but at the same time, being scared and running from *everything* isn't beneficial, either, because when the actual lion shows up, you'll be too tired to run. So, the approach/shy away/approach routine is a way of sussing out a strange thing, working out if it's actually dangerous, but being in flight mode and prepared to run if it turns out to be a predator.

Of course, we seriously effect this processing, but whether or not we help the horse or make it more spooky and neurotic depends on us as riders and our relationship with the horse. We often short circuit this process because the leaping/plunging away part is unpleasant. So we try to wrestle/punish/correct them out of doing it, sometimes rightly because jumping into the middle of a road, say, is not a good idea. Depending on how we feel and how tactfully we ride, this can lead to horses with lifelong fears of stuff like plastic bags (or cows... I'll own up to that), because they've had too many humans getting panicky about them being scared of plastic bags.

 

[criso]

I've got a spooky one that will go past something one day but not another but I generally think there's something changed that I'm not not aware of or maybe a windy day is making him more wary of things

However there was one incident that made me wonder if horses could fake.

My old tb Frankie he was a confident bold clever horse. The younger one, current one, Tigger, less confident, very spooky, followed Frankie everywhere but could be a bit pushy. Liked to try and push Frankie away from water troughs, food etc. Frankie was laid back and generally ignored his antics, much as an older horse would do with a baby.

Anyway, a couple of times Tigger was hogging the water trough keeping Frankie away. Franke from behind Tigger, looked at the water trough, snorted and half spooked, starting to spin away. Tigger reacting to Frankie's warning would spin away and run to a safe distance. Frankie never completed the spin, turned back to the water trough and had his nose in an drinking while Tigger stood at a safe distance looking confused.

 

[Mule]

Maybe he sensed your determination and that helped his confidence, or, he knew you were getting cross and figured he better get on with it.

 

[doodle]

I hoping he has learned that he can trust me when I say things are ok. He will now see something, a little hug with my legs and “you’re ok” generally solves the issue. I perhaps initially was a little “ok this is an issue let’s face it” so he went eeekkkk. Then when I said for goodness sake it’s fine he thought yeh she mean it. He is a spooky horse naturally so I am never going to change that but hopefully he looks to me for help.

 

[Mule]

I reckon it was you being cross that explains his change in reaction.
See how he reacts to something similar when you don't feel cross.

The beast has surprised me at times in a sort of similar way. He's not spooky but a couple of times when he's been arsing about and I have got cross he has become perfectly behaved. I'm almost always very patient so it's rare for me to get cross. Perhaps I should get cross more often

 

[doodle]

Yes I rarely get cross at him. He just never needs it which is great. Actually there was a pile of stones on other side of the fence a bit further up. He spotted it and had a very minor hesitation. I literally said “oh get on with it” and he seemed to shrug and carried on without an issue!

He was also cross at me because they had escaped into a little more grass last night and he would have rather stayed out to eat some more than have to come in to his stable and do some work ?

 

[Lois Lame]

Yes, I think a horse can decide to make up being alarmed at something. It can be very useful.

They are sometimes not very smart about it though. Mine once made boggle-eyes at some metal thing that had been in his paddock forever. I said to him, "Daniel, that thing has always been there. It's never changed. It's exactly as it always was. So stop being a ninny because I don't believe you."

OTOH, when making our way down the dirt track towards the yards, after a ride, he always looked a little wary in the place where a pipe went underground. Snakes could live there. (Snakes can live anywhere, I know, but this was a particular snake-like home.) I used to tell him, "Yes, I know this is rather snakey... I don't want to see a snake here either..." (I never had) "... but we need to get on with it because the yard and your dinner are just ahead." He'd go, but with trepidation.

I think in the former he was pretending, but in the latter, he was genuine.

 

[rabatsa]

Having watched mine in the fields they love to scare each other over nothing, not every day just every now and then.

 

[scruffyponies]

It's quite common for a horse to use spooking (at something they're actually bothered by, a random object, or indeed thin air) as a form of evasion (napping). Often just a stop or spook, but can include spin/rear/run etc. It usually stems from insecurity and the answer is firm, gentle, confident, forward riding. Rider should react as little as possible to both the 'hedge-dragon' and to the horse's antics.

It is one of the more usual reasons that horses get passed on with a bad name, but usually totally resolvable.

 

[thefarsideofthefield]

Was it a ' Sudden Stone ' ? To be fair they are pretty scary , as is a Sudden Flower , a Sudden Puddle , Sudden Grass …...

 

[Polos Mum]

Things out of context can really confuse them. My big horse was totally fine jumping logs all the time out at UK chaser type places (which we did regularly) one time the ground was a touch hard so I thought I'd walk around some of the logs - he totally freaked spooked at them. At which point I decided it would be safer to canter round and pop them - which he did beautifully. He knew what a jump was, he didn't know why he'd be walking past them (unless they were really dangerous - obviously!)

 

[criso]

Also if they have been worried by events earlier on, the tension builds up and gets triggered by something small that in a relaxed frame of mind, they wouldn't worry about.

 

[doodle]

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[Lois Lame]

Maybe he sensed your determination and that helped his confidence...

I hoping he has learned that he can trust me when I say things are ok. He will now see something, a little hug with my legs and “you’re ok” generally solves the issue. I perhaps initially was a little “ok this is an issue let’s face it” so he went eeekkkk. Then when I said for goodness sake it’s fine he thought yeh she mean it. He is a spooky horse naturally so I am never going to change that but hopefully he looks to me for help.

I get the feeling that Robin really wants to put his trust in you, and that if you always behave confidently, he will do as asked. He doesn't sound like a mare who I once had, for instance, who was an independent type who wanted to make her own decisions.

 

[Lois Lame]

Yes I rarely get cross at him. He just never needs it which is great. ?

This makes me think even more that he wants to depend on you.

I once used to occasionally ride someone else's horse who, I felt, absolutely trusted me. He trusted me more than I trusted myself. I've never ridden a horse like that before or since.

 

[Lacuna]

What are the thoughts of leading past scary things?

My boy rarely has dramatic issues with things but when he refuses point-blank not to do something, I just slide off and lead him past (he always follows me like a lamb). Then we get back on and ride past it a few times and its then an non-issue. he seems to trust me more if I'm on the ground than kicking like a loon on his back. (although it does help that he is only 14hh which makes remounting fairly easy)

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I own a weirdo who has gotten less weird and more confident with age.

I still think it is a means of entertainment or cure for boredom though. If he's just hanging out in his paddock, he'll suddenly snort and act all dramatic about his neighbor's water bucket (that is always there, always been there). Then he will decide he's over it and continue standing there or move onto doing something else. No people around that he knows of, so he's only fooling himself. He passes a vision test, but maybe he is a little off, who knows.

When being handled, I ignore it, so it is short lived. Sometimes if I tie him in the aisle he will find something to snort and look at, I just say "Stop!" and he does. With riding, he used to spin, back up, do little hops in the front, pirouette, and so on, but now he just asks a question or I feel a slight hesitation in his step and send him forward. Also helps that he is not behind my leg as he was when I first got him. I feel like a lot of it is the horse being behind the rider's leg and not having respect for the aids. Or the horse feels that the rider may not be totally serious or sees a window of opportunity to use spooking at something as an evasion or potential way to end the work day.

 

[Adoni123]

My new boy was terrified of the boulders out on hacks while I was nervous.

A month on my confidence shot up after being out at XC - I didn't even look at them and neither did he. It's all my nerves usually!