Can I have some moral support please?! Shoes off today...

chestnut cob said:
Thanks beeswax, that's helpful. Judging by how quickly his feet are growing ATM I wouldn't be surprised if he needs to see the farrier (for a trim!) in 4 weeks, especially given he didn't really trim much this time. If he sees him again in 4 weeks, then he'll be back 2 weeks after that to do shoe the fronts, so he'll be seeing him twice as often.
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That's a good thing! Some horses take a while for the growth to catch up after taking shoes off. If his feet are looking a little long, before he's ready for a set of shoes, just shove him in the walker for an extra 20mins ;) The footing isn't going to bruise him but it might shorten his feet a little too much to begin with, so just play it by ear.

Interesting question kallibear and one I have been pondering recently. I have had two horses with spavins, one shod pretty much until he got them and one to all intents never shod. The one who has never been shod has the most EEEEEnormous lumps you are ever likely to see on a spavined horse - think half a boiled egg - and never been lame on them for one day. I've periodically done flexions, no response. I've had lessons regularly with a very good trainer - only comment that he moved his foot in under his body slightly on one rein (classic spavin movement). They have been hot, and they have got bigger and bigger, but he has never for one moment seemed lame, bilaterally or singly. The other was definitely lame but had much smaller bone developments. Of course these are only two horses, but I would just love to know whether being barefoot had any effect on how easily the second horse sailed through it all.
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Kalli, who has the most horrific cowhocks possible has not a smigion of spavin (xray'd the other day, nerve blocked and flexion tested) but she's been allowed to develop the slightly squint feet she choose for herself, with a slightly longer inside wall. And, despite the squint feet, she has no twisting of the hocks at all whilst moving. Her stablemate however is currently hopping lame with spavin. Shod all her life with 'perfect' balanced feet behind. But she looks like the twist and shake dance when she walks and it's no wonder she's broken down! Would it have happened if she'd been allowed to grow the foot she needed......?
 
chestnut cob said:
The Total Eclipse balancer from Simple System that I'm feeding has linseed in :) Linseed has been recommended by lots of people though - SS said it has the perfect ration of omega 3 and 6 (I think) which is what makes it such a good anti-inflammatory.
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That's a b****y expensive way to feed linseed and other relatively cheap ingredients!

£25 for 20Kg from Charnwood mills. A lot fresher than the stuff you get from Simple Systems too!

There I go again....the Aberdonian just has to get out.....
 
beeswax said:
to encourage a foot to grow it short be trimmed regularly 4 weeks, rather than allow for a 6-8 week gap by doing this the hoof growth will slow so it wont be able to get thicker faster and you will get flare which will crack/chip etc etc
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On the flip side of the coin another friend who has been struggling with her horse (he's been out of shoes for 2 years and hasn't been progressing as expected) has found that her trimmer visiting every 4 weeks might have been doing more harm than good. Sometimes (but not always :D ) it can be better to leave them alone and observe what it is that they need.
The foot will grow in relation to stimulus and work is a far better way of doing this than trimming - actually bruce said that on a post the other day far better than I just have - looks hopefully in bruce's direction for help........
 
brucea said:
That's a b****y expensive way to feed linseed and other relatively cheap ingredients!

£25 for 20Kg from Charnwood mills. A lot fresher than the stuff you get from Simple Systems too!
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I went for it initially because I was getting in too much of a stress about how much of everything to feed so I wanted something easy. I originally bought everything separately from Barefoot Basics but it cost an absolute fortune - SS was cheaper than BFB. Now I've realised how much cheaper it is elsewhere, I won't buy the SS balancer again.

How much of the various ingredients should I be feeding? I want him to have linseed, Brewer's Yeast and seaweed (I also feed MagOx but I know how much of that he needs). He weighs around 650kg.
 
My farrier took the shoes off my TBx for nearly a year whilst he was out recovering from a tendon injury and was letting Dr Green do his thing

He said that the horse will grow the foot he needs- mine had slight flares develop BUT my vet was amazed- his low heels slowly slowly picked up...
he was on grass, F4F and a stud balancer for nearly 10 months, did a little road work, and looked a million dollars at the end.
 
So... I have managed to speak to the podiatrist who was recommended to me. My insurance company, who state in my policy booklet that my horse must be trimmed/balanced by a Registered Farrier only, have told me that they have just revised the policy Ts & Cs to allow clients to use an equine podiatrist... so, they have put in writing to me that I can use a podiatrist if I like, doesn't have to be a farrier.

The podiatrist is very happy to come out and look at my horse, even if I then decide to stick with my farrier in the end. I'm keen to have a trimmer/podiatrist see his feet, even if he charges me £40 to tell me the farrier has done a good job. It would be interesting to get someone else's POV plus the podiatrist can advise on diet and exercise, whereas my farrier won't. Had a very long chat with the podiatrist about my horse growing the hoof he needs, about how the feet of other spavin horses look (that he trims), and he says he will give me his opinion about whether my horse might be OK with fronts off as well at some point in the future. I got a lot more information from him than I have ever done from a (any) farrier.

My dilemma now is that I don't want to look like I've simply disregarded my farrier altogether but if the podiatrist comes out to my horse, at some point I think it is only fair to have a conversation with the farrier about this. If I don't tell the farrier then my YO probably will anyway, and it would be better coming from me! Yard politics make it v difficult for me to use anyone bar the current farrier, partly because he is there every week and shoes all but one of the horses (big yard). Plus, I am grateful to him for the work he has done up to now and I know he genuinely cares about all of the horses he shoes. It might make for some rather awkward conversations since I regularly see him at the yard!

If anyone has a magic wand they can wave to make the conversation easier or my farrier a bit more open minded, I would be grateful! ;)
 
Tell the farrier you're getting a EP out to discuss and possibly fit your horse hoof boots (lie if needs be ;)) It's not something your farrier will know much about (or be able to advise you on) so should hopefully keep him happier because there's no competition.
 
lucemoose said:
My farrier took the shoes off my TBx for nearly a year whilst he was out recovering from a tendon injury and was letting Dr Green do his thing

He said that the horse will grow the foot he needs- mine had slight flares develop BUT my vet was amazed- his low heels slowly slowly picked up...
he was on grass, F4F and a stud balancer for nearly 10 months, did a little road work, and looked a million dollars at the end.
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Sorry to hijack but would be curious to know who your farrier is. Happy with mine atm but always useful to know barefoot friendly farriers in case mine moves away.
 
Kallibear said:
Tell the farrier you're getting a EP out to discuss and possibly fit your horse hoof boots (lie if needs be ;)) It's not something your farrier will know much about (or be able to advise you on) so should hopefully keep him happier because there's no competition.
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Aha!! That's a good one, thanks :g: I feel terrible having to think like this and obviously if I decide to go with the EP in the long run then I'll have to have an honest conversation with the farrier, thank him for everything he's done and explain that I want to do things differently. For the first chat though, it might be easier to stretch the truth a bit...and the EP might fit boots anyway ;)
 
How much of the various ingredients should I be feeding? I want him to have linseed, Brewer's Yeast and seaweed (I also feed MagOx but I know how much of that he needs). He weighs around 650kg.
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This is what I feed for my 16.3 ISH

Soaked unmolassed beet - about 1 of the big round scoops
A tea mug of linseed
1 tablespoon brewer's yeast (it helps him a lot with his head)
10gr MagOx
About a round tablespoon of seaweed
Mineral mix
Chaff - an unmolassed rolled oat straw

And good quality hay.

On the rasping - I have come to the conclusion that hoof wall rasped off is treated differently to hoof wall worn off. Rasping removes wall, but wear causes compression of the tubules, hardening, and the stimulus to grow. Better to wear than rasp - if you can.

Often horses that are transitioning can throw out a lot of horn in the first coupel of hoof growths - it's not the best quality horn, and it settles down once they have repaired the hoof and got it where they need it to be.
 
Thanks Bruce, that helps. When I've used up the Simple System supplement, I will go back to feeding straights as I think it will be cheaper.

We had our first hack yesterday morning... bit of a mixed bag. He was fine on the way out, sounded like he'd got four shoes on, not just fronts. Our roads are pretty good, all smooth tarmac, but they've been flooded so are currently covered in silt and grit, which I think he felt a bit. Only went out for about 40 mins. On the way out he was great, exactly the same as normal, and he was fine on the way home until about 500 yds from the yard when he seemed to feel a bit footy. The sound of his back feet changed, as though he was putting them down a bit differently. So, I can only conclude I must have done too much or he trod on grit and made himself sore.

He was then a bit fed up when I turned him out after our ride - a tiny bit short when walking out (nothing I would expect anyone else to notice, just something I notice because I know my horse and how he usually moves). Was also quite fed up in the field; instead of playing as usual, he spent the morning standing around looking miserable, asking to come in, and trying to stop the other horses from playing together. However... the weather was awful and he hates the rain, so knowing him, it's just as likely he was protesting at having to be out in it! The last few days have been pretty awful here, cold and miserable, which does really affect his arthritis so it's also possible *that* is making him feel stiff and not taking the shoes off. Too many variables!!

So...I think my plan now is to work him in the school and on our fields, with little bits of road work over the next couple of weeks, just building the latter up gradually. Does that sound OK?
 
With my bad one I started with 5 minutes on the road, increasing to 10 by the end of the first week, 20 the second and I did 40 with him after about six weeks. Possibly just a bit too much for him too soon but don't worry, it won't kill him :), in fact the irritation will probably bring blood supply to his foot and make him grow sole callous quicker (and before anyone carps, this is how Cornucrescine works!).
 
cptrayes said:
With my bad one I started with 5 minutes on the road, increasing to 10 by the end of the first week, 20 the second and I did 40 with him after about six weeks. Possibly just a bit too much for him too soon but don't worry, it won't kill him :), in fact the irritation will probably bring blood supply to his foot and make him grow sole callous quicker (and before anyone carps, this is how Cornucrescine works!).
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OK, so I think my work plan should be OK - mostly arena and grass work, gradually building up the road work afterwards as a cool down..ie, school as normal then cool off on the road and build this up each time :)
 
chestnut cob said:
Now I've realised how much cheaper it is elsewhere, I won't buy the SS balancer again.
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Just wanted to add that if you are going for straight minerals equimins have just started selling brewers yeast for £2.60 a kilo. Not quite as cheap as Charnwood but good if you don't want to go for the full 25kg bag.
Their Magox there is quite good value too.

It's not listed on the website but if you call they will email the price list. They will make up bags in any size but get £25 worth for free postage.
 
criso said:
Just wanted to add that if you are going for straight minerals equimins have just started selling brewers yeast for £2.60 a kilo. Not quite as cheap as Charnwood but good if you don't want to go for the full 25kg bag.
Their Magox there is quite good value too.

It's not listed on the website but if you call they will email the price list. They will make up bags in any size but get £25 worth for free postage.
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That's interesting... I couldn't find Brewer's Yeast on the Charnwood site. Can you put a link up please? In fact, I also couldn't see MagOx.

Will take a look at the Equimins website.

Edited... ignore my Q about Charnwood, I have been looking at the wrong part of the website LMAO! have now found their BY and seaweed, but can't find MagOx.
 
http://www.charnwoodmilling.co.uk/store/erol.html

You need to go to mail order to see everything but they don't do magox, just linseed, brewers yeast and seaweed.
My local feed store gets Charnwood stuff in for me - I don't feed seaweed as our pasture is high in Iodine.

I use equimins for magox and a couple of other minerals. When I asked for their new price list today I noticed a couple of new things on it inc brewers yeast. The Charnwood is alot cheaper as it works out at £1.70 a kilo but it lasts a long time. I will probably finish the sack I bought in June in a month or so and a friend has been helping me get through it!

None of these things is on Equimin's website you have to call and ask for their special list Tel: 01548 531770
 
Well well well.... rather than start another post, I thought I'd add to my existing one.

I've just had a chat with my vet about all of this. I expected him to agree with the farrier that I am nuts but he was 100% supportive. He said that he thinks all horses should at least have a break from shoes each year, and that he thinks in a lot of cases, barefoot is the best way forwards for the majority of arthritic horses. We had a long conversation - he said to me (as you guys have) that as long as build the road work up slowly, his hoof should respond to the stimulus and begin to grow the way his body needs it to, and that within 2 normal shoeing cycles, he should have a totally different quality and shape of foot beginning to grow. He agreed that if it doesn't work, we can put shoes back on, but he thinks I should expect him to be a bit footsore for a while and that I must persevere as this will all pass.

I am absolutely amazed, and very pleased, that he has been so supportive. Also means I can now tell the farrier that I have the full support, and recommendation, of my vet :D
 
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