can i have your thoughts... ridden issues

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samhorse

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Hi guys. I don't post often but really wanted some different thoughts on a problem a friends daughter is encountering.

The little horse is rising 4 and is currently owned by a teenager win rides well. She has weekly lessons. The pony has always had a character and thrown in the odd buck or been a little nappy but they've got through it. Recently though the pony is standing a simply bucking on the spot and is resistant to the leg. If you push her forward she'll answer with a buck.

The instructor rides her and the pony works through it. When she bucks she's given a smack and i mean a smack, if she bucks again she gets smacked again and so forth. She really is ridden very strongly.

Owner gets back on and pony seems fine, but during the week reverts back to her old tricks. The owner won't smack her hard because it seems she's quite rightly worried about the pony really telling her where to go.

How do you guys cope with a pony the naps excessively in the school? The pony has learned it can buck and rear on the sport. Instructor says the teeth, tack and back is all fine.

I am going to spend a while working with them soon, different eyes and ideas if you know what i mean but the girl doesn't want to use the whip excessively and i have to say i am not of that nature and only use a whip when its really needed.

The girl is distraught as she's been told if she doesn't sort herself out the pony goes and she doesn't get another.

Sorry it's so long and thank you for any ideas you guys might come up with.
 
When the instructor says that back, teeth etc are fine, is that her opinion or have professionals actually treater the
 
Has anyone except the intructor checked the back/teeth and tack?

My friend had a very successful event rider out to her mare...he said saddle, back was fine and she had 'attitude' owner did more digging, turned out saddle was way too tight, horse had severe back pain and is now working beautifully (the instructor was not asked back!)
 
The teeth have recently been checked as has the saddle. The back i don't know if that.s been checked but when i had a sneaky feel myself and the pony didn't seem sore. My mission is to have all these things checked again if they will but they do take what the instructor says to be gospel
 
Parker79 that's a really interesting point, i can't get my head round the horse eventually working well for the instructor because the way my mind sees it is if there was a problem the horse would surely continue to act up?
 
Flipping phone! Have professionals treated the horse? Sometimes a horse does need riding through a period of 'naughty' behaviour but I would be concerned if the horse was continuing to react in such a strong way
 
I knew what you meant kirstyl i have phone issues too! The instructor can ride her through it so i am not convinced there is a back teeth saddle issue but also not ruling it out. And will if i can manage to get them to check these things out again.

I appreciate and understand why you're all saying that but also wanted a few different ideas to try and mull over in my brain as well as my own thoughts
 
when i bought my boy I was told he can be nappy and refusing to move and buck for his novice rider, he was ridden by an instructor for about 6 weeks then I bought him knowing his tricks.
I think you have to find the way that works for the pony without offending him, what works for mine are spurs or a growl, he objected to the whip strongly when I first got him and he tested me out, but I found that a small spur and a growl sent him forwards.
Now that he has my respect I can give him a tickle with a schooling whip to send him more forwards.
Some people would say keep smacking until he stops but not all things suit all horses. I found lots of work on the lunge to be useful too, using the growl if he planted.
Try different things to see what works for that pony. Good luck, I'm sure it will be worth it, I know my cheeky boy is.
 
Hacking out, the pony has done little hacking because it bombs off, it does get ridden around am enclosed field and goes to shows for a change of scene but at a trot pole competition recently she behaved the same
 
I had same problems with my pony when i brought him. I put it down to him being very green and not really been used for 18months. I then got concerned because he wasnt getting any better. I asked a friend of mine to come out and have a look as i thought she did backs! Turns out she does but not in the ay i expected she is a SacroCranial therapist and she found multiple holes in his muscles from the saddle and other things. I changed to a treeless saddle for about 3 months (brought a cheap one off ebay) let her do her work on him and now we hunt, XC, school figures of 8 and we only buck when we canter on a hack as he is that excited to be working!
 
Its all very well the instructor beating the horse and getting through the issue but she is obviously not solving the reasons for it or helping the child ride the horse properly. A new approach is definitely required as this one has not helped and is probably making it a more established behaviour.

It really needs some sensible and regular work to get over this as it is still very young and is heading in the wrong direction, I hope you can help them.
 
I don't think the instructor riding it ok rules out pain, just that she's bullied it into working regardless.
I think as well for a rising 4 yr old my first thought is its just mentally not ready for the level of work that's being asked. Get the impression there's a lot going on in the school for a youngster, what's it like on a hack?
 
samhorse said:
Hacking out, the pony has done little hacking because it bombs off, it does get ridden around am enclosed field and goes to shows for a change of scene but at a trot pole competition recently she behaved the same
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This makes me think that pain is more likely and that the instructor is just a strong enough rider to make the pony behave regardless to her discomfort.

I have a genuine napper and there is always a 'thing' that sets her off napping (having to ride past the local Alpacas was a prime example that would set her off, but she'd be good as gold once you were past them).

ETA. How long has the pony been backed for?
 
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samhorse said:
Parker79 that's a really interesting point, i can't get my head round the horse eventually working well for the instructor because the way my mind sees it is if there was a problem the horse would surely continue to act up?
Click to expand...

Depends how strong the instructor is....I dont know the instructor so this could be a stab in the dark but some riders can be very forceful...I cannot think of the word I am looking for but my current intructor was trying to explain that some very strong riders can make a horse work...but it can be very forced.

It could be behviour but I always think it is kinder to give the benefit of the doubt to the pony first...there are only a few ways they can communicate pain.

I think the comment about hacking is a good one...also if the horse is struggling with schooling...bending etc and is evading then every schooling session may have become negative.
 
In this sort of situation I would consider a bute trial if the behaviour improves on the bute ( except personally I would use Danilon) you know the horse has pain.
You can't discount pain if it does not work though as some pain does not resond to non steroidal anti inflammatories .
I normally do ten days and work each day and monitor behaviour very carefully.
If you get an improvment you withdraw the painkiller get it out of the system then I am afraid it's off to the vet for a work up.
 
IMO a change of instructor is called for.
Then I'd get a 2nd opinion on back/saddle/teeth. This definitely sounds like a pain issue to me and if this treatment carries on much longer the poor pony will be completely soured. This is no way to treat a 4 yr old. At this age so any things change so quickly that any-one with any sense would think 'pain' immediately.
 
Other than the possibility / probability of pain, the statement that the rising four year old pony "has always been a bit of a sod" (paraphrasing obviously!). How long has he been in work, how much does he do and how how varied is it?

He's very young to be be doing a lot of school work and going to shows regularly etc...
 
Be positive - thank you, you've expressed exactly how i feel.

I am trying to keep up with replies...

The pony has been backed since the end of last summer, i didn't know it then but it was classed as dangerous and current instructor was pulled in to replace who backed it. It seems the pony used to slam you into fences and buck or rear till you were off. I've only known the pony since this year but i do know something is going very wrong, but i seem to fighting a loosing battle with the instructor.

My battery is about to die, thank you for replies so far... I'll be back!
 
Before my battery dies, what's your opinion on when a horse should be backed? See I've always thought around 3 and a half / 4ish, the work should be light, varied and fun. This pony does seem to be moving too quickly for me, it is a lesson once a week which lasts a hour, more if it's naughty, the instructor has constantly dismissed my opinion so i thought perhaps for all these years I've been doing it wrong. But actually i think she maybe wrong. I want to help but i don't want to fall out with them.
 
I agree - 3 and a half / four is fine - I was just uncertain from your wording whether it might have been longer. Was he turned away over winter? And hour plus is a long time to be on a little one for a lesson, but it's not an explanation for that sort of behaviour!

I would certainly be investigating pain and saddle options... Not easy to be in your situation though - you can't force the owners to listen to you!
 
I'd still want to rule out pain.
I think its a case of too much, too young. Acting dangerous whilst being backed is nearly always down to people screwing it up, either before, during or after. I also think backing lightly at 3 & turning away till the following spring is one thing, but not backing at 3 & schooling without a break for a year. If that's all been done under instructors supervision & suggestion, then instructor is an idiot imho.
 
Littlelegs i totally agree. I think my toughest job might actually be convincing the humans there is a problem, not the problems they are facing with the pony.
 
I would be doing varied work, some hacking and schooling but this sounds like a battle that is going nowhere, the instructor giving one lesson a week is trying to dominate this pony. It may be a difficult pony that for whatever reason has started the wrong way but one lesson a week, whoever the instructor is, is not enough to get things back on track.

It probably needs to go away, or have someone nice:) work it regularly hack it out and just get it back on track, then the owner can start to get confidence building lessons in order to progress.
 
I like to lead four yo from another horse it's a great way to get the out and about we go out as a three me riding and leading and my groom rides an other the youngster learns from the others what's expected and it's completly non confrontational.
It sounds like this horse is going wrong but he's not yours so you may have to watch it from the sidelines hard I know.
 
My rising 4 yr old is hacking. If we go in the school once a week then thats maximum and only so she knows that we do that to. She would never manage an hour....infact, much more than 20 mins, her heads had enough.

Oh, and she can nap.....with the best of them, that is why we keep things fun and light....theres plenty of time for school work when she's more ready. Since we've established the basics, then pretty much ditched the school, we've not had a proper rear/nap.....questions, but not proper napping, I believe hes relaxing.

Also, she was broken Sept last year, had winter off, restarted early march with a fab attitude. :D

Good luck helping the girl keep her pony.x.

Forgot to add....shes learning all the time while out....she just dosent notice ;)
 
I'd try & convince them to get checks for pain done first. Then give it a at least a few weeks off. Then I'd take it out either in hand or led from another for a short hack, with the emphasis on undemanding & fun. Then when I thought it was enjoying work I'd get on & hack in the same way, loose rein & preferably with a safe but forwards companion, marching forwards is all I'd want. And I probably wouldn't take it in a school till next year. Once enjoying hacking I'd school while hacking, but the main point would be to get its interest again. Even if its pain, I'd want to help it forget its previous experience of work.
 
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