Can i mention the 'P' word? Cowboy wazzocks!

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vennessa

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I don't know enough about the 'p' word to call it, this is just a couple of cowboys at the weekend for all you 'P' supporters
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At Appleby horse fair at the weekend i was haveing a nice relaxeing lounge on the river bank with a cider in hand.
When i think i have sun stroke. Two cowboys appear with a mahoosive great heavy cob and carrying whips.
The next thing it was obviouse it was a stallion if you get my meaning and it was after anyone and anything. The cowboys had one of those halters on what 'p' people use. It may not have had anything on. It just went mad running into all the horses, ponies and foals kicking them dragging the cowboys. Now that horse kicked at head level. Uproar shouting to get the thing out before someones head is kicked off.
I have never seen such wazzocks in my life. They had no control whatsoever. If that is 'p' it is not for me. I have never in my life seen such dangerous handling with a Stallion.
I was too shocked to get a photo. One poor kid on a pony got both barrels.
They made a hasty retreat on the end of the rope!
OMG some people are insane.
 
I think it might be a bit unfair to blame that kind of thing on parelli. The halters (as far as I know) are the same as any pressure halter and it just sounds like a case of two complete idiots when it comes to handling. With people like that it doesn't matter whether they are parelli, BHS or however trained, if you've got no brains, no kind of training is going to magically inject them into your head.

Awful that the kid got kicked though, hope its OK.
 
They were definately practiseing 'p'. Not very well! As i said i wasn't calling it just those two wazzocks. They had all the gear which made them look bigger wazzocks with it going very badly wrong.
The kid and pony did seem o.k. thankfully. The kids there seem to take a lot. Where i would be crying they carry on trying to hide a grimace.
Some people watch a video and think they are experts
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Did they ask said devil horse politely if he fancied complying with them and then waved a stick with a shoelace on the end at him?! Because that is the obvious way to deal with a raging stallion in full hormonal bellow!!
 
P at Appleby.... are you sure that it wasn't the combination of cider and sun making you see things? If not, I salute the power of Mr P's marketing machine. He must have been trained by the FBI to achieve such brainwashing power.
 
Pmsl

I read P as Pikey instead of parelli and was wondering what the hell a Pikey headcollar was
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Ooooo...and here was I thinking, under the circumstances, P was for Poo
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I don't know enough about the 'p' word to call it, this is just a couple of cowboys at the weekend for all you 'P' supporters
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But you know enough about Parelli to know that's what they were 'practising'? That seems almost contradictory, however, you may be right as there's always some arsehole that'll go round making everyone else look bad. Shame really, I always thought of Parelli as having a more female following, guys don't like the severe lack of violence
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but if tehy were dressed like cowboys AND had a rope halter it must be parelli!
 
I have read a lot of these anti - parelli posts on this forum and never yet replied to any - however, I feel I should say this ..... Each to their own and it seems to me to be a real shame that a lot of peeps on here seem to be very narrow minded and ready to jump on the bandwagon ( truth be known a lot of peeps prob havn't even taken the time to find out for themselves about these things - they just follow along with others) You really can't blame everything that people do wrong on one method of horsemanship. Some people just seem to have no idea of how to handle horses but then there are people who can't handle dogs, kids, money etc - they can't possibly all be using the P method surely?
Ok rant over.......... and before you ask - no, I am not a P person.
 
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Iit seems to me to be a real shame that a lot of peeps on here seem to be very narrow minded and ready to jump on the bandwagon ( truth be known a lot of peeps prob havn't even taken the time to find out for themselves about these things - they just follow along with others)

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Seems to me you are being a bit narrow-minded in making assumptions that because people don't like Parelli, it automatically indicates they don't know anything about it.
Is it not possible that they know AND dislike it?
S
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Seems to me you are being a bit narrow-minded in making assumptions that because people don't like Parelli, it automatically indicates they don't know anything about it.
Is it not possible that they know AND dislike it?
S
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Let's be honest though, on this forum it seems to be a dirty word, calling it the P word is as good as calling Parelli himself the C word
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and I don't believe for a minute that every single person on this forum that thinks Parelli is an arse has read a book of his or seen a demonstration.
They have probably heard tale of some man that plays 'games' with horses and sells it for a couple hundred quid to unsuspecting newbies. I'm not saying this is a complete lie but having read one of his books and seen first hand my friend using Parelli techniques on a mare that was completely unrideable (the little mare went on to be a young teenagers dressage horse, normal horse, no carrot stick required!) I believe SOME of his methods are valid and should be tried before being ruled out.
 
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P at Appleby.... are you sure that it wasn't the combination of cider and sun making you see things? If not, I salute the power of Mr P's marketing machine. He must have been trained by the FBI to achieve such brainwashing power.

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I did actually think it was the cider and sun. I couldn't believe my eyes until it turned dangerous. It wasn't travellers practiseing it, i think they were opened mouthed until it turned dangerous. I don't think they will be seen again.
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Seems to me you are being a bit narrow-minded in making assumptions that because people don't like Parelli, it automatically indicates they don't know anything about it.
Is it not possible that they know AND dislike it?
S
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Let's be honest though, on this forum it seems to be a dirty word, calling it the P word is as good as calling Parelli himself the C word
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and I don't believe for a minute that every single person on this forum that thinks Parelli is an arse has read a book of his or seen a demonstration.
They have probably heard tale of some man that plays 'games' with horses and sells it for a couple hundred quid to unsuspecting newbies. I'm not saying this is a complete lie but having read one of his books and seen first hand my friend using Parelli techniques on a mare that was completely unrideable (the little mare went on to be a young teenagers dressage horse, normal horse, no carrot stick required!) I believe SOME of his methods are valid and should be tried before being ruled out.

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No, I agree most people who feel strongly about NH, Parelli, etc go to the dedicated forums. There are folk on here, though, who use some aspects of Parelli, NH, etc, and I think people on the forum generally have no problem with anyone who has anything useful to offer. In your case, it sounds like some of it works.
What we tend to find less welcome, is the greed/moneymaking aspects of some 'practitioners', and the evangelical zeal of ofter very novice owners, who are encouraged to believe each method, as though it were a new religion...anyone who doesn't adhere to it being the modern equivalent of a heretic. Sadly, you only have to look at Project Horse to know where these horses end up
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S
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[ QUOTE ]
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I don't know enough about the 'p' word to call it, this is just a couple of cowboys at the weekend for all you 'P' supporters
grin.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

But you know enough about Parelli to know that's what they were 'practising'? That seems almost contradictory, however, you may be right as there's always some arsehole that'll go round making everyone else look bad. Shame really, I always thought of Parelli as having a more female following, guys don't like the severe lack of violence
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but if tehy were dressed like cowboys AND had a rope halter it must be parelli!

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I do know what they do and have seen it/dealt with the aftermath. I have not studied it as i use common sense with ours. Each to their own, who am i to say what people should do as long as no harm is caused. What gets me is people who 'think' they can do things and put lives in danger, equine and human. I was trying to put across in my sense of humour way - a strange sense of humour - how stupid those men were and how utterly dangerous.
The travelers stallions wore headcollars and led on loose ropes and did not cause a problem. What were those cowboys trying to show? How not to control a Stallion in a herd.
 
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I have read a lot of these anti - parelli posts on this forum and never yet replied to any - however, I feel I should say this ..... Each to their own and it seems to me to be a real shame that a lot of peeps on here seem to be very narrow minded and ready to jump on the bandwagon ( truth be known a lot of peeps prob havn't even taken the time to find out for themselves about these things - they just follow along with others) You really can't blame everything that people do wrong on one method of horsemanship. Some people just seem to have no idea of how to handle horses but then there are people who can't handle dogs, kids, money etc - they can't possibly all be using the P method surely?
Ok rant over.......... and before you ask - no, I am not a P person.

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I have not jumped on any bandwagon. I have my own mind and ways of thinking. I was not talking as a whole although what i have seen is not for me or for some of our rescues that have been put through it by the untrained. I was commenting on those two cowboys - yes dressed as cowboys! doing what they were doing. If it had been Joes blogs in jeans, no top and a headcollar i would still have commented stupid Joe blogs.
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I always thought of Parelli as having a more female following, guys don't like the severe lack of violence

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Yet from watching the Parelli programs on Horse and Country TV I find some aspects far to violent for my liking.
 
Well Ive met the guy, read a book and went to the first ever UK demo he did so I can state hand on heart that I am not a sheep. Im open minded and prepared to take on board things from many disciplines to help me and my horses.

Pat started out talking sense many years ago but the whole Parelli thing has now been packaged and marketed in a way that I dont like and the demos have been turned into circus something I equally dislike.

So, as far as Im concerned, it started off good and then ruined itself. Sadly thats what happens to a lot of horses owned by the P Cult too.
 
Oh people - you have got this so badly wrong
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Even if you saw a rope headcollar at Appleby, it was probably one they nicked from a tack room!

I have rope headcollars and I had them before Parelli started the marketing machine in the UK. Fortunaely no one would steal mine as they look worn out!

Now I have never seen many of travelling community practise horsemanship, let alone natural horsemanship........ unless you count sticking a kiddie on a horse and making the trot really fast down a road........
 
Um, that doesn't really sound like any decent professional cowboys I've ever seen work. Just wearing a hat doesn't make you anything - I could wear a fire helmet, it wouldn't make me a fireman.
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Leaving bashing Parelli aside, I fail to see why people doing *anything* badly is taken as representative. When people crash and bang jumping is that seen as a condemnation of the British show jumping community and training methods?

I have my issues with Parelli and similar - and at least one other very popular, traditional school of riding - but I don't think it's fair to say bad horseman are made that way by a particular school. I do think people are often attracted to certain practices (perhaps by temperament?) and do harm by not understanding or not being careful or not, as everyone is so quick to point out, not using common sense, but my experience has been there are lousy - and fantastic - riders and handlers in every crowd.

I haven't been so really cannot judge but I'm curious how much really top quality horsemanship of any practice there is on display at Appleby. . .?
 
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Now I have never seen many of travelling community practise horsemanship, let alone natural horsemanship........ unless you count sticking a kiddie on a horse and making the trot really fast down a road........

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Can i just add once again - 'It was not travellers' - It was a couple of idiots trying to do god knows what. They were about to be lynched by travellers!
As for horsemanship, many do have excellent horsemanship skills. Good and bad in everybody comes to mind. For someone looking in i can see how some see it. From someone who learns from whoever, wherever and works with every sort of horse owner their is i see things from a different angle.
No one discipline or person has it right, a good mix and we could be getting there
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I always thought of Parelli as having a more female following, guys don't like the severe lack of violence

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Yet from watching the Parelli programs on Horse and Country TV I find some aspects far to violent for my liking.

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I clearly have to watch this TV programme, I haven't seen any Parelli recently, my friend did it with her horse about 6 years ago and she had a few books and course sheets or something, either way there was no violence what so ever involved, maybe she just missed out those bits.
 
Hmmmmm....I began to read this thread to find out what 'p' meant not suspecting for a minute it meant Parelli.

I guess the original comment was about a poor display of horsemanship at an event that has some history of poor horsemanship. Wasn't a horse drowned last years in a ritual cleansing of some sort? Triumph of man over beast. I used to want to visit the fair but that story put me off for life.

As for Parelli, it is only one aspect of 'natural horsemanship' and there are many others including of course Monty Roberts, Mark Rashid, Quantum Savvy to name only a very few. Please remember that some people aren't actual studying students but are just copying others and do not have the understanding that experienced students have. An experienced student would not have taken a horse into that situation unless it was very well prepared and well behaved. Natural horsemanship? I think not. These were dreamers you saw with little to offer in terms of horsemanship, in my opinion.
 
Hmm they don't sound like the usual Parelli folks to me I'm afraid - they sound like ignorant twits who have no horsemanship skills whatsoever.

Goodness, god forbid but I use rope halters all the time
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. And I used to lead my stallion out in one!
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I also ride western. I rope and pen cattle. I wear cowboy boots and *shock horror* I also wear a cowboy hat!
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Does this mean I must also be a P person?
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Hmm they don't sound like the usual Parelli folks to me I'm afraid - they sound like ignorant twits who have no horsemanship skills whatsoever.

Goodness, god forbid but I use rope halters all the time
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. And I used to lead my stallion out in one!
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I also ride western. I rope and pen cattle. I wear cowboy boots and *shock horror* I also wear a cowboy hat!
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Does this mean I must also be a P person?
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Are you quite butch, Tia, if you don't mind me asking?
Were you in Appleby at all?
S
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An observation or two ......

Yesterday at our yard, an experienced livery was leading in her mare and foal. Next thing they got free, charged up the path and ran into their stable narrowly missing a child (which should not have been wandering round of course!!!)

Another livery, who competes regularly and has 'common sense etc with horses', was pulled up at a show for over use of the whip.

Do these isolated incidents mean therefore that all liveries are either dangerous or violent towards horses ?

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Being a capitalist I also find some of the comments regarding marketing etc amusing.

I recently bought a book by William Fox-Pitt - nice of him to do it for free - not.

I bought some jods - Mark Todd nice guy, gives out free clothes to us normal people.

Ellen W - never see her advertising anything - such high principles.

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This is intentionally cynical to make a point. This is not meant to promote or necessarily agree with Parelli.

Not liking or rating any method is a right and that opinion should be respected. However double standards and ignorance are not an attractive attribute in anyone.

I would be interested to know what 'experinece' or 'knowledge' those on this thread have, who say they do yet can't find anything at all useful ???
 
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I guess the original comment was about a poor display of horsemanship at an event that has some history of poor horsemanship. Wasn't a horse drowned last years in a ritual cleansing of some sort? Triumph of man over beast. I used to want to visit the fair but that story put me off for life.


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Out of the the many many thousands of horseman and horses that attend every year there is far greater amount of good horsemanship than not.
Attending for 19 years i have not known of any ritual cleansing. Yes horses get bathed in the river. The story was one sided! Some people attended last year painstakeingly seeking out pictures to put the fair down. Where were the thousands of pictures of the stunning horses? Where were the real life stories and real history of the fair?
Horses are are big money at the fair, are they realy going to risk thousands of pounds by drowning a horse? Accidents happen in all disciplines.
It was an extremely upsetting accident.
I decide things with my own eyes. I have attended the fair for 19 years - some as work! I don't listen to gossip i find out for myself.
I see far more cruelty at shows and competitions and far more horse deaths at shows, competitions, hunting and raceing.
If people have a problem what good does gosssip and nastiness do? Does it change anything? Speaking to people at the fair and education does help and change things.
A horse did die in an accident last year, terribly upsetting. Instead of calling the fair for it the accident needs looking at and how it can be prevented. The horse got its leg caught in its rope and pulled its own head under the water. It would be nice for a button to be invented to stop the world and turn the clock back to take the rope off. It cannot be done and a lesson was learnt. 100's of horses and ponies are bathed in the river daily throughout the fair - how many drown?
As i said before the main work the RSPCA and vets had over the week week was with visitors. Two dogs died in a visitors car. Is this going to be headlines? Two dead dogs in a tourists car? A lot of tourists had there cars broken into - by the police, vet and RSPCA to save their dogs lives! In essence the main cruelty over the week was by tourists. A different perspective.
 
If you go back and check the report on H&amp;H. The ritual involved dunking a horse in the water and holding it under for up to a minute. This horse was held longer than this and the men on top of it were unaware that, as it struggled, it was in fact drowning. You may indeed have been there, but the photos told the story too. Apparently the men who drowned the horse disappeared rapidly from the scene and the horse was left on the river bank. Nice work.

I respect your experience of the fair and your view of the professionalism of many there. But it was you who made assumptions about what you saw and followed through by slating Parelli.
 
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