Can I prove my horse was a wind sucker before I bought him?

Polos Mum said:
I think declarable vices only apply to sales and it is the individual sales house rules that state what has to be listed/ non listed in relation to the specific warranty that the saleroom will give you.
For general sales (private or dealer) there is no such thing in English law and if it's not the law what rights are there for it to be enforced???
Trades description is the only law you have for a dealer sale
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That has always been my understanding of it.
 
Brightbay said:
For the record, if he is holding on to something and gulping, that's crib biting not windsucking - windsuckers can do the behaviour without gripping anything with their teeth (and so can have undamaged teeth). Both are linked to digestive problems.

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Nope, that's crib biting AND windsucking. Crib biting alone is not declarable at Doncaster, so I assume it's not a declarable vice unless it is associated with crib biting.

Crib biting exists on its own, without windsucking.
 
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Yes there are signs that a horse has been wind sucking for a while.

Vet would have picked this up at
a vetting.
Why is he so different?
Did you try him lots and test him out before you agree to buy?
 
blucanoo1990 said:
Yes there are signs that a horse has been wind sucking for a while.

Vet would have picked this up at
a vetting.
Why is he so different?
Did you try him lots and test him out before you agree to buy?
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Yes I tried him in open fields, on the road, in a school etc. he broncs, doesn't like to be in traffic is difficult to catch, very difficult to load. I am going to put a claim in at the county court as advised this morning. I won't have lost anything if I don't win, I'm just annoyed that I have a horse that I can't ride and is costing me a fortune in vets bills, I will however, care for the horse and give him whatever he needs.
 
Did you make it clear when you looked at the horse that you were a novice?
Before I met my partner, he bought a horse which promptly slammed him into the wall when he had a saddle fitting, and broke his wrist. The horse had been vetted, and the vet advised against testing the blood, as this is apparently prohibitively expensive.
It went to court, the first time the woman didn't turn up, the second she argued there was nothing wrong with her. Problem was, several pro people had tried to get on her with no success.
It took him several months, and cost him a fortune, as he had the vets go over her with a fine tooth comb, but the case was awarded to him, and she had to take the horse back.
If the behaviour of the horse is notas stated, and you made them well aware of your novice status, then you have a stongcase with or without the wind sucking.
 
zaminda said:
Did you make it clear when you looked at the horse that you were a novice?
Before I met my partner, he bought a horse which promptly slammed him into the wall when he had a saddle fitting, and broke his wrist. The horse had been vetted, and the vet advised against testing the blood, as this is apparently prohibitively expensive.
It went to court, the first time the woman didn't turn up, the second she argued there was nothing wrong with her. Problem was, several pro people had tried to get on her with no success.
It took him several months, and cost him a fortune, as he had the vets go over her with a fine tooth comb, but the case was awarded to him, and she had to take the horse back.
If the behaviour of the horse is notas stated, and you made them well aware of your novice status, then you have a stongcase with or without the wind sucking.
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If you have a case like this, then by all means try taking it too court. However, you read through so many times on here "I've been had"; sold wrong horse etc... I must take it back to the previous owner and sue them...

When in reality most of the time there is nothing wrong with the horse. Its the owner and/or routine that is the cause of the problems.
 
If horse was good when you tried him but now so different. It was either drugged or is very stressed.
Which is understanding, new home, owner etc.

This again proves the importance of a vetting.
I hope he can come right for you or the sellers can do a deal with you.
 
Polos Mum said:
I think declarable vices only apply to sales and it is the individual sales house rules that state what has to be listed/ non listed in relation to the specific warranty that the saleroom will give you.
For general sales (private or dealer) there is no such thing in English law and if it's not the law what rights are there for it to be enforced???
Trades description is the only law you have for a dealer sale
Click to expand...

This.

However, if you can prove you asked about vices (and listed what you meant by them) and were given an untruthful answer (which you would also have to prove, both the answer they gave and the fact of the horse having a vice which he definitely had before the sale and not just post sale stress induced) then you would have a case even against a private seller (Private sellers are obliged to tell you the truth about questions you ask but are not obliged to volunteer information like a dealer or a salehouse is). The challenge will be proving all these things.
 
cptrayes said:
Not so. Declarable vices apply to all sales.
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Unfortunately not, declarable vices are listed by each auction house in their conditions of sales.

Whilst private sellers should declare them it is up to the purchaser to obtain a written warranty from the seller that the horse has not displayed any of the vices whilst they have owned the horse.

Very grey area from what I can establish, if there is no written evidence to the contrary the seller can simply say the horse was sold as seen and it is buyer beware.


ETA: sorry, cross posted with others saying the same
 
zaminda said:
Did you make it clear when you looked at the horse that you were a novice?
Before I met my partner, he bought a horse which promptly slammed him into the wall when he had a saddle fitting, and broke his wrist. The horse had been vetted, and the vet advised against testing the blood, as this is apparently prohibitively expensive.
It went to court, the first time the woman didn't turn up, the second she argued there was nothing wrong with her. Problem was, several pro people had tried to get on her with no success.
It took him several months, and cost him a fortune, as he had the vets go over her with a fine tooth comb, but the case was awarded to him, and she had to take the horse back.
If the behaviour of the horse is notas stated, and you made them well aware of your novice status, then you have a stongcase with or without the wind sucking.
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Hi yes I told her several times even before trying that I am a nervous novice I have a witness as well. She assured me he was more than suitable and it also states it very clearly in the advert which I have a copy of.
 
wench said:
If you have a case like this, then by all means try taking it too court. However, you read through so many times on here "I've been had"; sold wrong horse etc... I must take it back to the previous owner and sue them...

When in reality most of the time there is nothing wrong with the horse. Its the owner and/or routine that is the cause of the problems.
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Thanks for the input but my vets says otherwise!
 
cptrayes said:
I sit corrected. Buyer's lawyer does not appear to agree with you.
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Unfortunately I'm sure a lawyer will be happy to be paid £100's an hour to prepare a case and take it to court on the OP's behalf - whether supported by sufficient law or not - Apologies for being so cynical about lawyers, I'm sure there are good ones too.

Clearly there are examples of people taking sellers to court and having the court decide the horse should be returned so there must be something in law that helps - it would be useful if the OP's lawyer could help her with exactly what evidence he needs to bring a sucessful case.
 
God, whatever happened to the old "buyer beware" saying? Sorry, if you're buying a horse it is a RISK. It is not a car and it can and they do 'break' within days/hours of someone purchasing it.

If you are a novice then who's help did you seek before going to try this horse and before handing over cash? Why didn't you have it vetted? Years and years ago before the internet and therefore the amount of information and advice available then sure, many people may not have thought about vettings but I am pretty sure it's easy enough these days to search for something along the lines of "how to go about buying a horse" and you would find some tips.

The horse may well load fine in a wagon and it may just be the trailer that was the issue (it obviously went in eventually!). The catching thing, yeah that's a pain but could just be a trust issue. Both these 'problems' are fixable at the end of the day.

Windsucking - unless you can categorically prove it did this before i am not sure how you could send it back on this basis. Also, I bought a pony (or my parents did) when I was 12. We had him vetted and he passed yet he turned out to be a very accomplished windsucker and he did it every day after tea without fail and at any time he was stressed He never did it once when we saw him (on two occasions) and neither did he show signs during the vetting. It didn't affect him in the slightest though so windsucking wouldn't worry me TBH.

As for the suspensory damage, this could have been pre-existing or he could have done it since being with you. Difficult to tell. At the end of the day for me it's the horse I feel for. 5 weeks is no time to settle in either. They're animals at the end of the day, not machines.

I wish you luck whatever you decide.
 
Munners said:
Thanks for the input but my vets says otherwise!
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If your vet says otherwise then why ask a group of largely non qualified people to comment?

If you are sure you are on steady ground then push for your case, no reason not to!

I simply dont understand why you didnt bring this up with the old owners when the horse first did this on arriving and ask they have it back then, then none of the lameness trouble would have been a problem for you. You were obviously happy to live with the vice for some weeks

It seems to me that you are aware that this is your most solid reasoning to return the horse and you will now use it as a loophole to send the horse back or a partial refund

Not having a go at you for it - good luck and all that!
 
Munners said:
Hi yes I told her several times even before trying that I am a nervous novice I have a witness as well. She assured me he was more than suitable and it also states it very clearly in the advert which I have a copy of.
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Either the seller is a complete liar or - more likely, I feel - your horse is very unhappy, insecure and potentially in pain.

Without knowing anything for certain, I would guess that the (experienced) seller found the horse easy to ride and handle but that you (inexperienced) are suffering the symptoms of an insecure, traumatised horse.

My recommendation would be that you get yourself an experienced instructor to help you with all aspects of horse care.

Horses need to have clear boundaries and a clear leader, in order for them to feel secure. This applies to everything you do with your horse, not just riding him.

As someone else said, your horse will hopefully recover from his injury and, with help, you can build a mutually trusting relationship and he may turn out to be the horse you thought you had bought.

You do need professional help though.
 
Why are novice people still buying horses that are 'too good to be true' and not getting them vetted then find they have bought a problem. I feel sorry for OP but I wish someone had given them some good advice before buying. If the horse has a hind ligament problem I am not surprised it has other issues as going up a ramp will hurt as will lots of other things. Poor horse it is saying it is in pain and stressed and I'm glad it is having good care. Hope OP gets good help and advice
 
PandorasJar said:
OP - Have you actually contacted the seller about any of the issues?
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This.

Plus, what kind of yard are you keeping the horse at?

What is your management of the horse?

Who have you had ride the horse who is qualified to comment on his attitude and rideability?

When did you first contact your trainer about taking the horse to them for a short spell?
 
My boy took a good few months to settle in & start loading, hacking & catching fine. He was a nightmare to start but with some time & patience he settled lovely & was then back to the horse I had viewed!

I personally don't think 5 weeks is very long to expect them to be fully settled. (No clue re. legalities of the windsucking, sorry) Xx
 
WelshD said:
If your vet says otherwise then why ask a group of largely non qualified people to comment?

If you are sure you are on steady ground then push for your case, no reason not to!

I simply dont understand why you didnt bring this up with the old owners when the horse first did this on arriving and ask they have it back then, then none of the lameness trouble would have been a problem for you. You were obviously happy to live with the vice for some weeks

It seems to me that you are aware that this is your most solid reasoning to return the horse and you will now use it as a loophole to send the horse back or a partial refund

Not having a go at you for it - good luck and all that!
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I'm asking the forum if it can be proved how long a horse has wind sucked for!
 
If you decide to take the route of involving a solicitor make sure you are made fully aware of their fees before you get involved! I had a SIMPLE joint ownership contract put into place (or so I thought) was quoted around £1,000.00 by ACTONS and now have a bill of over £5K!!! Some solicitors are nothing but thieving b******* some make yourself fully aware of what you are getting into!
 
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