Can livery yard owner refuse to let me take away my horse?

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FinellaGlen

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I bought an unsuitable horse some months back. I wanted a novice ride and he is anything but. Basically, I was conned. I sent him away for re-schooling so that I could sell him to someone who could cope with him and his nervous nature but I have been conned again!

I have just found out that the man who is supposed to be re-schooling him for me hasn't actually done anything and my horse has been stood in a stable since he arrived at the yard. Obviously, I am now desparately trying to find someone else who will actually re-school him for me and not just take my money and do nothing.

What I am worried about though is whether the livery yard owner can refuse to let my horse go as he is threatening to do? I have paid for livery but he was going to take a cut from the sale money to cover the actual re-schooling. As he hasn't done any re-schooling I don't want to pay and I won't let him sell the horse and take his cut because I just want to get my horse away from him and his horrible partner. Any advice please?
 
I have paid the livery in full but not the so called re-schooling because he was going to take this from the sale of the horse which will not now be happening. I don't want to pay money for re-schooling which hasn't taken place so it is my word against his. I am totally fed up.
 
I don't know about the logistics of the agreement for them to sell and take a cut part of the agreement but if it was a straight livery agreement, then they couldn't stop you taking the horse if your livery bill is paid upto date. My friends horse got stolen years ago and was found, it was being kept on a livery yard and she was escorted to pick the horse up by the police but she couldn't take the horse until the livery bill was paid and that was with the police present. Have you got a written agreement with them and have you got reliable witnesses to the fact the horse hasn't been ridden, because if you don't have a written agreement and your bill is paid you can turn up with the police and take the horse as long as you can prove ownership and deny their was the agreement then the onus will be on them if they want to follow it up they have to take you to court, if you have a written agreement then you will need you witnesses and if they don;t let you take the horse, you will have to call the police again and if that isn't succesful then take then to court for breech of contract. Sorry I couldn't be more help!
 
If you are paid up to date then just go and leave the yard.... whats the worst they can do???? Chain the door shut???

They are probably just panicing about losing their money maker.....

As asked before, have you got proof they havent done anything, and how long has he been there??
 
Thanks everyone. I have no contract so it is my word against his if he decides to argue about it as he is bound to do. I have paid the livery bills up to date and have the bank statements to prove it.

They probably can't chain the door shut or no-one else will be able to get in or out but do they have two Dobermans which bite and which I fear may be set loose on me.

I do have some proof that no reschooling has taken place but I'd rather not say on here because you never know who is reading! The horse has been with them for several weeks now and his behaviour is actually worse now than when I took him there. I had kept him in a strict and calm routine with plenty of turnout and I think that had helped.
 
If you have no contract then he doesn't have a leg to stand on and cannot keep the horse. Similarly if you don't have a contract you cannot prove why your horse was at his yard and for what amount you were paying - in future make sure before you send your horse somewhere you have a formal contract to avoid confusion and threats.
 
Gloster_Image, I can prove that I paid the livery but I don't have a contract for the re-schooling. I have learnt my lesson and will insist on a written contract signed by both parties when I find someone to do the re-schooling properly for me. I know that I was naive but it was a friend of a friend situation and I didn't think that there would be a problem - stupid in hindsight I know.
 
I'm sorry you are in this position. Sadly there are far too many unscupulous people in horses. I've learned a few lessons the hard way too. If I were you, I would ring the local Police, alert them that this person is threatening to prevent you from removing your horse from his yard and saying that you intend to try to do so, but that you may need to ring for their assistance. As the other poster said, to simplify things, I'd deny all knowledge of a schooling agreement if there isn't a written contract to that effect (not because I'm unscrupulous, but because we have to fight these people at their own level). Then go along in company and maybe with a video camera and demand that you have access to your property (remember in law that is what a horse is) and leave to remove it from his premises.

Of course, should you be aware of times when the person concerned is unlikely to be on the yard, go then and remove your horse and yourself quickly. You need to move quickly as this can only get more entrenched and every day your horse remains there increases your livery bill.

Good luck
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Ah we all do it - it's all about learning from experience! I would just take your horse and leave - because he cannot stop you - good luck keep us informed x
 
Just to echo the god advice given by others. Personally, i'd take a few men with me, and go and collect the horse. If he sets the dogs free, it's nothing a couple of beef steaks won't solve!
 
A friend years ago did a similar thing, she bought a youngster to save it from slaughter and sent him away to be schooled in a view to sell on with the 'schooler' taking a cut out of the selling price as she was a novice rider. The scrawny yearling she bought from the auction for £105 turned into a stunning young horse worth thousands and it turned out the 'schooler' had no intention of selling him as he wanted him. Schooler kept him for months, friend was struggling to pay the ever increasing livery costs and began to smell a rat as the horse was never quite right for selling or so schooler said. His intention were to get the livery bill to such a debt that he kept the horse.
Friend and co went and took the horse from the yard one night and he was put in hiding until a good home was found. Sounds far fetched but it is true. Friend was petrified for a long while after as the schooler was very dodgy.
 
I actually had this problem a few years ago - I feel out with the YO (was young at the time with V. bad tempered OH) and told him I was taking horses to another yard. I turned up with a horsebox and gave him a cheque for what was left of my livery bill, only for him to then drop a digger bucket in the gateway so we couldnt get out!
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OH went nuts and grabbed him by the neck, I called the police, who turned up and said he couldn't stop us from taking our two horses from the yard. I had given him a cheque and that was proof of intent to pay and that I owed him money for services, not for the horse itself. If the cheque bounced it was fraud and I would be in trouble (which I knew and had no intention of bouncing cheque). He had to move his digger bucket and let us out!!
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Fortunately I've grown up a bit since then....oops!
 
Go to the police and say you are leaving a livery yard and although you have paid all your livery bills, show them the statements, they have threatened to set two dobermans on you if you try and take your horse off, if you satisfy the police you own the horse and don't owe them any money they will escort you there to collect the horse as its a potential breech of the peace and potential assault if they don't, just deny any other agreemnt the other party can not prove it if they don;t have it in writting.
 
If your conciense is clear and you have paid all what you owe, then take a couple of big blokes with you and take him straight off the yard, thats what i would do...
 
i personally would tell the yard owner that you really miss the horse and have decided that you are going to keep him.Then ask if you owe him anything for the schooling out of good will.
Then you can re advertise the horse yourself in a couple of weeks.
 
Yes you can take your horse away, and by police escort if necessary. Any monies owing are a civil matter and he would have to sue you for that. I'd contact the police and say that you fear for your safety in view of the dogs and violence and need help to remove your horse. They will be there to assist if it gets out of hand.
 
We once fell out with the owner of a livery yard, we had paid for turnout and feeding that hadnt happened. This bloke and his head girl were both a funny pair, the bloke dug a huge trench all around the outside of the stable yard about 20ft wide and ten ft deep, the stable walls were bulging in danger of falling in the hole it was just too stupid for words!
We took the horses for "a ride" to their new homes and went back later for our stuff! They were quite rude about it but what the heck!
I would get the police, or go with the "ive changed my mind" idea.
 
You can only hold a horse in lieu of payment if you have added value to the horse through schooling or training. The fact that this has not happened then you are free to take this horse and he can do nothing about it.
Even if you had not paid your livery bill the yard onwner cannot keep the horse he would have to take you court to reclaim the value owed.
Thats it plain and simple.
 
[ QUOTE ]
You can only hold a horse in lieu of payment if you have added value to the horse through schooling or training. The fact that this has not happened then you are free to take this horse and he can do nothing about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this answer, but I'm curious, how and who would decide whether value had been added?
 
If it has been in training and gaining results in competition then the horse would have been considered to have been improved by being in training and therefore that development in training would have a considered 'value'. In a way the added value= work done by the trainer and that value is effectively 'owned ' by the trainer as it was his/ her knowledge and skill that lead to this improvment. For the 'value' then you would have to look at other horses in your displine at it's age and performance.This was how it was explained to me by a solicitor as i had a similar problem just the other way around!!!! I had taken a horse from an also ran 'novice ' in two seasons to advanced Med. and three national finals and placings. I was on a percentage and lo and behold never got paid for the work!!!
 
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