Can someone help me work this out? Wonky horse

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emfen1305

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So at risk of sounding so novicey to the point where I should just have the horse taken off me and given to someone who knows what they are doing, I need help!

Cob's left shoulder is much bigger than his right, physically you can see the muscle much more on the left than the right and has been like this since I got him in May. When I got him, I got a new saddle which has needed reflocking 3 times, every time on the left and every time it has been tight on the left which makes sense given his massive shoulder. The fitter is good and it always fits great after she's sorted it and he goes better but I am concerned at how much I am having to have it checked and how wonky he still is. I rode him for 30 mins in my lesson tonight (poles and a couple of small jumps) and the saddle has rubbed the hair just behind the wither on the left hand side. Messaged the fitter straight away and she is stumped because it was fine on Saturday and told me to keep an eye and she will come asap. I have just put him in a new Le Mieux numnah which I heard can rub but would have thought it would have rubbed all over. Going to swap numnah as a trial. Anyway, I did a bit of panicked reading and came across an article from the Osteopathic vet saying not to automatically blame poor saddle fit but can be wonky horse which would make sense.

When the physio first saw him in May, she noted he basically had very little hind end muscle and a weak right hind. She saw him again at the beginning of October at said right hind still weak but hind end muscles better and to keep going but I feel like nothing is really changing! In terms of work, he has always been very difficult on the left rein, he really hangs on it and falls out to the right, the left canter is unbalanced and he over bends his neck to the inside, falling out to the outside, if you try to straighten his neck he either breaks into trot or pulls back and tanks around, the transition is a little laboured too and if the stars aren't aligned he will strike off on the wrong leg. On the right rein he sometimes falls in and looks to the outside but canter transition much smoother and much easier to control generally, I find him much easier on the right rein! This makes me think right hind is the issue however on the ground, when I do his carrot stretches he is very reluctant to keep his head up and stretch round to the left but has absolutely no issue bending to the right. If I ask him to bend to the left with his head down it isn't a problem, or if i ask him to bend with his head out slightly (ie not asking him to touch his hip/thigh) then that is also not a problem. This makes me think muscles on the right hand side are sore or underdeveloped which makes bending to the left harder, would this make sense? Are there any good articles that explain muscles and how the horse works?!

So after the brain dump, really it boils down to 2 questions:

1. Reading the issues above, what should I be looking to fix and how?
2. If the issue is wonkiness, how do i make him straight?

Currently he is ridden 4 days a week (2 lesson, 2 hack) and then I am walking him over raised poles and pole fans (mostly on the left rein so right hind is on the outside) once a week but think I might need to up this and then on the other 2 days I've been doing in hand work teaching him leg yield on both reins and doing lots of back up to trot transitions, making sure he is straight and taking even weight. Next week I'm going to ride bareback to see whether I am wonky (probably) and also if the saddle fit is affecting his way of going.

One thing not mentioned is pain factor and whether it is a physical issue and should I get vet? Fitter, physio and instructor all agree he isn't lame and is just a weakness issue. He is a croup high, unschooled cob used to ploughing along on the forehand so have been told it may take time to teach him so just putting that on the backburner until he gives us something else to go off.

Congrats if you have got through this mega essay, I just want to understand what is going on with my horse and how to fix it!
 
i'd be tempted to get someone like rob jackson to have a look at him. It sounds like you are just fire fighting solutions to an underlying issue that isn't being sorted. The other thing it might be is something like a hock issue or arthritis that makes him weaker pushing off.
 
Mine has had noticeably wonky shoulders after periods of lameness, one of which was slow developing so had probably been slightly different for a while.
I would absolutely get yours a physical MOT
I would also start reading about straightness training and seeing if you can go and watch any sessions (instructors dotted about and do travel, audience usually welcome).
http://straightnesstraining.com/

Its set out as a system a bit too like the parelli set up for my liking but you don't have to do it that way, I never have.
 
I think I would want the vet involved now as in my experience this should be well on the way to being sorted by now with the input you have had from the pros involved so far, to be able to see such a difference in his shoulders and the work making no improvement is rare, it may be just a weakness but that does not explain why he has built up so unevenly and why the physio has not managed to fix it, it will take time but if there is an underlying cause it is never going to be resolved.

I had a similar horse here, not uneven but always over muscled/ tight in part of his shoulder, it was his feet which the vet thought looked excellent, he was sound on flexions so we didn't block but did xrays anyway and they showed the inbalance which was a surprise to the vet.
 
The physio is back coming in a couple of weeks because I was worried having his shoes off (only on Friday) would potentially make him sore plus these issues have been niggling at me. Where would I even start with the vet? Block the right hind?

Ester - I've looked at ST, there is an instructor who holds sessions not too far from me, I've been watching lots of videos online of different methods to straighten the horse which I appreciate is no replacement for an instructor but I feel like with everything I am doing I should be seeing at least some improvement in his way of going - my instructor, fitter and physio all think he is improving and looking in good shape and I just need to keep going but I am starting to wobble...
 
oh I agree you should be, hence the physical exam first, the shoes off (I had forgotten sorry I loose track!) might complicate things (diagnostic wise) for a bit (and yes it can make them get a bit tense all over IME).

It also depends a bit on learning styles, I do quite well by watching, but massively better if I can get someone to correct me while I am doing it (same with non horsey stuff too!) so I did force a friend to take us a couple of times/instructor kindly stopped in at my yard on the way.
 
I forgot to mention the shoes but actually this issue started way before the his shoes came off but I agree about the diagnostics, I think if he was to have a full work up now I don't think it would be indicative of the real issue, which I do think is something to do with the right hind. The feet have always been a bit of an issue, there were some imbalance issues which have been sorted and very thrushy with deep central sulcus infections on all 4 but I don't know if that is enough to affect him.

My instinct is to get the physio (or someone like Tom Beech - more likely than Rob Jackson as he is round the corner) out to tide us over given the barefoot transition and keep doing what we are doing and reassess after Christmas? Or just sack all of that off and call the vet and get a workup - both involve a fair bit of money which honestly I don't have but it's only fair that if I expect him to work that he is comfortable...
 
If his feet were/ are bad then they may well be at least contributing to it, if he feels/ felt just slightly uncomfortable and is not placing them equally heel first with one possibly feeling worse than another then if every step is "wrong" that must mean he will struggle to be straight, even if he looks ok to the eye a subtle difference will mean an unequal build up of muscle on him, it may not seem much but it makes sense to me that once the feet are right he will come right.
Thrush is often caused because the feet are not working as they should so it may be a case that the thrush is because he was not balanced which then made him less comfy so he was even more wrong in his placing of the foot, then it made the muscles build up the wrong way so he couldn't be even even if he tried.


I might want the feet xrayed as the horse I mentioned above had what appeared to be well balanced feet, vet didn't want to bother with the xrays, the xrays were completely unexpected and showed a completely different picture to what was on the outside, if yours has had some issues with balance it may be that there is still more to do although going barefoot will probably be enough to help, I would maybe wait and see how the transition goes but that would be my staring point if you do involve the vet.
 
Thanks BP I suspect his feet have been like that for quite some time because when I got him he had always been shod by the same farrier who proclaimed he had awful feet (yet did nothing to help..) and the cracks were very deep. He’s also had a couple of bruises over the last couple of months which my farrier said would have been sore but he never showed any real signs so maybe that hasn’t helped. I’m walking him out for 10 mins every day on the road to help his feet start working properly and I’m still treating the thrush. I’ll see where I’m at once he’s been out of them a bit longer and see if there is any improvement.

My physio has treated him twice since I got him and both times she has seen an improvement and noted a little tightness but nothing overly concerning, she would be the first person to be telling me to get the vet (as she did my old horse) she believes it is just a weakness and retraining a 9 year old heavyweight con who has been left to his own devices since he was broken will not happen overnight especially as I am not a professional rider and I am learning too. My instructor rides him on an ad hoc basis and also thinks there’s a big improvement, I don’t think either of them gain from not telling me the truth. I am waiting to hear back from Tom Beech, at least if there is something for the vet to consider he will hopefully pick it up!
 
paddi22 said:
i'd be tempted to get someone like rob jackson to have a look at him. It sounds like you are just fire fighting solutions to an underlying issue that isn't being sorted. The other thing it might be is something like a hock issue or arthritis that makes him weaker pushing off.
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Your physio shouldn't be treating him and he should have been referred to a vet by now. I find physios good usually, but worse than useless if there are underkying structural issues.

Get Rob Jackson or Tom Beech out. Both are vets, neither will treat if they cant find an issue and both will refer you back to your vet if its a lameness issue rather than a wonky horse issue.

I still use physio/sports massage but its only as a routine treatment. Any issues at all and its straight to Rob or Tom, or my actual vet depending what the underlying cause is.
 
Leo Walker said:
Your physio shouldn't be treating him and he should have been referred to a vet by now. I find physios good usually, but worse than useless if there are underkying structural issues.

Get Rob Jackson or Tom Beech out. Both are vets, neither will treat if they cant find an issue and both will refer you back to your vet if its a lameness issue rather than a wonky horse issue.

I still use physio/sports massage but its only as a routine treatment. Any issues at all and its straight to Rob or Tom, or my actual vet depending what the underlying cause is.
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I think we cross posted - due to my essay tendencies haha! I just wanted to back my physio a bit, she is very good and works closely with my vets that’s why I have no doubt she would refer me if she felt necessary, my vets also know that she is treating him, she may change her mind when she sees him this month but when she can last time she was adamant he is sound, he was showing improvement and that it is weakness due to confo and schooling however I have messaged Tom so I will wait for a reply from him as I have heard good things!
 
You said his feet are sorted now, does that mean they all match after the trim?
As you are going barefoot and doing plenty road work for now, can you let him grow the foot he is comfortable with even if it doesn't look pretty? Definitely read the Rockley farm blogs.
Good luck with it all
 
tda said:
You said his feet are sorted now, does that mean they all match after the trim?
As you are going barefoot and doing plenty road work for now, can you let him grow the foot he is comfortable with even if it doesn't look pretty? Definitely read the Rockley farm blogs.
Good luck with it all
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I mean the heel bulbs are the same height now, there was quite an obvious difference on all 4s when I got him, I took the backs off straight away as he had been shod with a long toe and farrier has been doing little and often. He hasn’t trimmed the fronts he just de shod and pulled some flappy bits from the frog, he said he will come and check in 4 weeks but doesn’t expect to have to do anything with them (it’s more for my own peace of mind). Unfortunately I work so it’s dark when I get down but have been doing 10 min walks on tarmac and concrete and this weekend I’m going to take him out for longer on the roads! Have been studying Rockley very carefully and going to take some slow mo videos at the weekend to check his landing! Thanks!
 
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To be fair to physios I have had a lot better input from them as to my own horse's wonkiness than the vets! In fact I have had to point out to vets more than once in a trot up that the horse is twisting. Rob Jackson is the only vet who has climbed up to look down on her to confirm she was virtually on 3 tracks.

Her right shoulder was significantly under developed from day 1. Improved massively in 2017 but injured her leg this year and she's obviously compensating again because my saddle has needed adjusting because it's tipping slightly.

Injecting her hocks has helped a lot and I can see that in her hoof balance too.

Trouble with vets is they can't all see "lameness" unless it's a hop. I can recommend Rob and heard good things about Tom too. I'll be interested in what they find - might give me more pointers for mine!!!
 
I’m generalising here but these sorts of patterns have generally come on over a longish period of time and have a root cause that has caused the horse sufficient discomfort that they have compensated so much that it is difficult to identify the initial source. Once you start unpicking you might find he gets worse / noticeably lame before he gets better.

I think I would get flexion tests done, and treat fairly conservatively if needed, and shoe to X-ray. Then it will be a case of gradually retraining them straight, which is actually quite a skilled riding.
 
did you have him vetted when you bought him and what did the vet say about the uneven shoulders? you may find that it will take a while for his feet to settle so i would wait until he is comfortable on them before having the vet to check.. personally i would have kept his shoes on until you know definitely what is going on and then work on that and remove shoes at a later date(if he can cope)
 
I would agree with having a vet-chiro or vet-osteo out, that Straightness Training would be a big help, and to chat to your saddle fitter about your concerns. We all fit differently but shimming may be a better bet, something you can slightly adjust yourself, with his or her guidance. I personally feel that a flat, even shaped shim is more sympathetic than flocking up one spot but as I say we all have different approaches. I would possibly have fitter and back person talk to each other directly, sometimes that can throw up other ideas.
 
Thanks for the replies, not sure why I missed them! Didn't have him vetted but vet saw him in October when she did his vacs and I asked her to give him the once over, she said he looked fine but obviously nothing other than a quick trot up and whizz on the lunge was involved!

There's no physical difference in his back feet, I would have thought something would have shown up behind now like a flare or an imbalance but nothing. In terms of fronts, the the front right (on the weaker side) took slightly longer to get rid of the central sulcus infection/sheared heal but you're talking a week or so, now they both look pretty equal.

I asked the saddle fitter about shimming, she said she would have look when she comes out as she wants to check the flocking. She doesn't think the difference is as big as I think it is! I still haven't ridden him since so don't know if the different numnah will make a difference and I thought he would be benefit from some time on the ground, I've been doing lots of things to strengthen his hinds, lots of leg yielding, shoulder in, lots of back up and transitions in hope that either it'll help straighten him up for when I ride or he will just break (not that I hope he will break!) but that's exactly what happened with my old horse. I'm on the database for Tom Beech but will have my own physio in the meantime and just carry on with the walking and the groundwork as I do think it is helping, I had a look at him on the lunge tonight and he looked much better than he has done over the last month or so although I don't lunge that much if I can help it!
 
emfen1305 said:
Thanks, do you recommend? I looked at the Equiband a while ago but the faff of ordering one put me off so never bothered, this looks a bit easier to get hold of!
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I think Equibands might be better in terms of the tension on the bands, but these have done what I needed (plus I got them reduced so lots cheaper - and my vets bills are huge!!)
 
A tail bandage tied to a neck strap or the girth works pretty well, I'm not such a big fan of heavier tension bands, the tail bandage simply reminds them their hind legs are there rather than putting any pressure on. See TTeam bodywrapping work, really interesting.
 
sbloom said:
A tail bandage tied to a neck strap or the girth works pretty well, I'm not such a big fan of heavier tension bands, the tail bandage simply reminds them their hind legs are there rather than putting any pressure on. See TTeam bodywrapping work, really interesting.
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I tried it tonight just with a tail bandage and did it to the roller and transitions were much more active, didn't do too much as not a huge fan of too much lunging but I like to use it as a guide when I'm not riding to see whether things are getting better or worse, can definitely say there has been an improvement over the last 2 weeks so the ground work and walking out must be doing something!
 
echo getting the horse worked up and checked out, but do the same symptoms arise with another rider? I only ask as i am just about to head out to physio as my horse was feeling crooked and then i realised it is actually me who is totally out!
 
jj_87 said:
echo getting the horse worked up and checked out, but do the same symptoms arise with another rider? I only ask as i am just about to head out to physio as my horse was feeling crooked and then i realised it is actually me who is totally out!
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He's not as bad with my instructor, hence why she thinks I'm overthinking, but then she is a much better rider than me. I definitely sit crooked so it's something I want to work on in the New Year, he's having a little break from being ridden at the moment whilst he's adjusting to being barefoot and the weather is awful so just doing lots of straightening stuff!
 
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