Can someone please explain to me why horses are better kept in as much as possible, because I just don't get it!

Chuckieee

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Admittedly, I do not enjoy riding in the rain anymore because I wear glasses (and I was put off contacts due to a graduate optician treating me unpleasantly... I may try again). I did one ride across the Wiltshire hills with glasses and I couldn't see very much at all! Just a "grab mane and hope for the best" job!

Have laser eye surgery. Best thing I ever did........
 

scats

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What difference does this make to whether a horse can work or not? Mine is able to live out 24/7 in summer, I ride plenty straight from the field with no detrimental effects to the horse. If it was raining, she wore a rainsheet. My livery yard rules we keep in overnight for winter.

Because I like my horses to have had a bit of time off the grass before I ride. I also like to ride clean horses so if it’s been raining, they can come in and dry off first. I’ve done it this way for 30 years and it works for me, just as riding straight from the field works for you.
 

ihatework

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It is very rare I would keep a working horse out 24/7 - it would have to be a very sharp/stressy type for me to consider doing that. I like them in for part of the day. In summer (and parts of spring/autumn, ground dependant) they are generally out overnight and in during the day. Through winter they are out during the day for at least a few hours barring the very worst weather/ground, with a walker supplementing any turnout restriction.

Non working horses, on the whole are out 24/7 - it is getting almost impossible to find suitable accommodation for this these days. My 2yo generally spends 3 months of the year over winter in a big barn with some outdoor all weather turnout, not such a bad thing in the grand scheme of things.
 

teapot

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You MUST care for your land if you are going to keep livestock. It's not about having pretty lawns, it's about maintaining the fertility, grass cover, soil integrity and variety of the sward. If you don't you will end up with the usual weed-infested, tired, sour fields that characterise most horse keeping establishments (apologies to everyone who DOES farm their land rather than just stick ponies on it). Harrowing, rolling, seeding, aerating, liming, fertilizing, drilling, weeding, draining - all these things must be done according to the character of the soil and allowing a bunch of horses to poach and tear up the pastures is NOT looking after either them or it.


This! I see it through my job every single day just how much work goes into decent pasture management - it costs money, time, and a thought process.

It is very rare I would keep a working horse out 24/7 - it would have to be a very sharp/stressy type for me to consider doing that. I like them in for part of the day. In summer (and parts of spring/autumn, ground dependant) they are generally out overnight and in during the day. Through winter they are out during the day for at least a few hours barring the very worst weather/ground, with a walker supplementing any turnout restriction.

Out of interest, any particular reason? I see 50 working horses from my office desk all out 24/7...
 

ihatework

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This! I see it through my job every single day just how much work goes into decent pasture management - it costs money, time, and a thought process.



Out of interest, any particular reason? I see 50 working horses from my office desk all out 24/7...

Primarily access to livery yards that are suitable for managing individuals that way - very few have sufficient acreage, adequate shelter, other liveries that don’t do daft things. But also a whole variety of other factors:

Weight/feeding management, Helps with rugging choices, Convenience, Routine
 

teapot

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Primarily access to livery yards that are suitable for managing individuals that way - very few have sufficient acreage, adequate shelter, other liveries that don’t do daft things. But also a whole variety of other factors:

Weight/feeding management, Helps with rugging choices, Convenience, Routine

All those are more than fair reasons! Just interested :)
 

ycbm

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You MUST care for your land if you are going to keep livestock. It's not about having pretty lawns, it's about maintaining the fertility, grass cover, soil integrity and variety of the sward. If you don't you will end up with the usual weed-infested, tired, sour fields that characterise most horse keeping establishments (apologies to everyone who DOES farm their land rather than just stick ponies on it). Harrowing, rolling, seeding, aerating, liming, fertilizing, drilling, weeding, draining - all these things must be done according to the character of the soil and allowing a bunch of horses to poach and tear up the pastures is NOT looking after either them or it.

This is probably true if you are grazing land with horses to its maximum capacity. But I haven't found it to be true of my 12 ish acres. They have been grazed as one field for twenty seven years, never with more than five horses and generally only two or three, currently two and two minis. I spot kill dock and dig up thistle and ragwort. It has never been fertilised, limed, drilled, harrowed, topped, seeded or drained. It was a monoculture sheep lawn when I bought it. It's now a dense wildflower hill meadow with immense plant variety.

The problem, I think, is that we put too many horses on the land now. The old rule when I started was three acres for the first horse, plus an acre for each additional one. That's gone right out the window these days.
 

blitznbobs

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This is probably true if you are grazing land with horses to its maximum capacity. But I haven't found it to be true of my 12 ish acres. They have been grazed as one field for twenty seven years, never with more than five horses and generally only two or three, currently two and two minis. I spot kill dock and dig up thistle and ragwort. It has never been fertilised, limed, drilled, harrowed, topped, seeded or drained. It was a monoculture sheep lawn when I bought it. It's now a dense wildflower hill meadow with immense plant variety.

The problem, I think, is that we put too many horses on the land now. The old rule when I started was three acres for the first horse, plus an acre for each additional one. That's gone right out the window these days.

It probably depends on your land, I have 2 horses on 8 acres all winter and they have a 3acre patch for the summer (the ponies live on 2 half acre paddocks as they are fat as pigs most of the time) we live in the heart of Cheshire dairy pasture so fertiliser is a no go - but we do Harrow weedkill and top fields at least once a year... as otherwise they do get poached in some areas
 
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windand rain

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This is probably true if you are grazing land with horses to its maximum capacity. But I haven't found it to be true of my 12 ish acres. They have been grazed as one field for twenty seven years, never with more than five horses and generally only two or three, currently two and two minis. I spot kill dock and dig up thistle and ragwort. It has never been fertilised, limed, drilled, harrowed, topped, seeded or drained. It was a monoculture sheep lawn when I bought it. It's now a dense wildflower hill meadow with immense plant variety.

The problem, I think, is that we put too many horses on the land now. The old rule when I started was three acres for the first horse, plus an acre for each additional one. That's gone right out the window these days.
It also rather depends on the workload, ponies especially would struggle with their weight if turned out on large acreages of grass land. Three acres for the first and an acre each after was also meant to provide hay in summer. Mine do live out and have done for the best part of 50 years with livery restrictions being the only time they have been stabled but they dont have free range so the land does take time and money. I do use a little fertiliser in Spring on the winter grazing to replace nutrients removed by poo picking, We harrow but never top the grass as use the long grass as standing foggage in winter. We are very lucky as in the field is sandy and on a gentle slope. Horses and ponies have no where near enough work in the main and are often fed when they naturally drop weight in winter so their metabolism is overridden. Hill ponies with no winter feed are tough but look like hat racks in March and April and if its a harse winter many die we dont keep domestic horses on a similar vein so have to manage their weight
 

Annagain

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I am grateful my YO will not overstock the fields and looks after the land so they get turnout every day no matter the weather and this is why I won't move yards if I can help it as I won't compromise on that. For me, working full time with 2 older horses who can't do too much in the school, daily turnout is a must as I simply cannot ride them every day to give them the excercise they need if they're in as they need to hack and I can't do it in the dark. They do come in overnight in the winter, mainly as the YO won't allow hay in the fields to avoid fighting but they're still out from about 6.30am to 6.30pm with enough grass to keep them occupied if not fill them up.

At the moment they're still out 24/7 with no sign of coming in as the fields are still so dry but my boys have been coming in for a few hours a day as A has to have eye drops 3 times a day so I'm getting them in in the morning, leaving them in until I rush back in my lunch hour to his drops and put them bak out (they're still on the hay fields a 10 minutes walk from the yard) and then going back after work to feed them and give him his last set of drops. They also did a few hours in during the hottest weather over ther summer as the flies were so bad. I've been surprised how happy they seem to be in and would maybe be less wedded to being out 24/7 as much as possible if future but I'd still want them out for at least a good portion of the day.

In an ideal world I'd have a few fields with a big barn right in the middle with doors to all fields so they could choose to be in or out themselves whichever field they were in. A friend has this set up and it's usually the flies and heat they want to get way from rather than the rain.
 
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CJoe

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the reason is simply, houses are being built on pockets of land which were once grazed by horses. Myself and friends were discussing not long ago and 9/10 yards that offered 24/7 turnout, or had unrestricted grazing within a 15 mile radius had all been built on! If you can find turnout, great, I am a big believer of it! Mine only come in when they ask...…..or before a competition as I need them to rest energy wise!
 

hihosilver

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I really like mine out 24/7 I was reading recent research that keeping horses out keeps them sound and not wanting to jinx this I have certainly found this true. I do think though you need a dry field and adlib hay ( we feed round bales) good quality rugs and natural shelter. I have stables but never use them. My horse competed B100 successfully this season and was chilled, happy and relaxed. My 2 are never at the gate- just at the hay!! My sister also who has a broody full warmblood and lives in freezing Scotland was told that she would never be able to leave her out but 4 years on she has a mammoth coat, super condition and is a completely chilled different horse from coming from Holland where she was stabled all the time. I know there are exceptions but I wont ever have a horse in unless absolutely necessary!
 

Tarragon

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It can be a little bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Stabled horses can, quite rightly in my opinion, view their turn out time as an excuse to play and having played then also congregate by the gate to be brought in again as they associate their stables with food and it is these actions that tend to make the fields poached and muddy, which in turn can lead to less turn-out .... if you see what I mean.
 

honetpot

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I think if horses were treated like livestock instead of pets, it would help.

The dairy industry in particular have spent a lot of money on what makes a happy cow, a happy cow makes more milk. There are formulas for the amount of space, food, air, type of bedding you name it there is a study of it. Their success is easily monitored my milk production and they have known for years that a over fat animal has health problems as well as costing more money to keep.

A lot of horse owner equate ever thing to what they need, would like, when a horse has a very different phycology and physiology . They need good ventilation, they need company, they need trickle feeding of rough forage. Their metabolism is does not cope well with sugar and starch based diets. They have a coat which when left with its natural oils repels water, and fluffs to trap in air. A natural duvet.
Its a blooming animal that has adapted over thousands of years to live outside, not in a cave or a 12x12 box with hardly any light and hardly any ventilation.
 

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My horse doesn’t get turned out when it rains as she stands by the gate rearing and screaming after 20 minutes and she will do it for hours until you bring her in. She had a 2 month holiday in the field 2 summers ago and that was a struggle. she just hates turnout and would much rather be in 90% of the time (she ok when it’s dry in the summer but still wants to come in after 2 hours).

For me turnout isn’t worth the upset it causes. I’d rather avoid vets bills so she just stays in where she is happiest
 

JFTDWS

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Mine are out 24/7 now, and the ponies will be all winter. I'll bring the mare in at nights when I have to - I'm not in any rush to do so. I work them all directly from the field - that's harder for the ponies as they're not clipped or rugged, but they're only hacking, and only Fergus does much faster work anyway.
 

blitznbobs

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My horse doesn’t get turned out when it rains as she stands by the gate rearing and screaming after 20 minutes and she will do it for hours until you bring her in. She had a 2 month holiday in the field 2 summers ago and that was a struggle. she just hates turnout and would much rather be in 90% of the time (she ok when it’s dry in the summer but still wants to come in after 2 hours).

For me turnout isn’t worth the upset it causes. I’d rather avoid vets bills so she just stays in where she is happiest

Yup I can relate to this... my big dressage horse hated rain I distinctly remember the occasion when I took off his layers of stable rugs and heaved ( he was 18 hh ) on the out door rugs for which he behaved impeccably... walked him the 10 yards to the field , he stopped dead sniffed the mud put his head way in the air and literally carried me (on the end of the lead rope) back to his stable... all at a sedate walk. If you can’t see he was saying ‘I’m not going out there I’m going back to bed ‘ then I’m not sure what he could’ve done to make it any clearer... horses are not in their natural state any more they have been actively evolved by humans to be biddable, big strong things that put up with all sorts of shit... I’m kind a bit sick of the ‘it’s not natural’ argument... none of what we do is natural, giving them vet care isn’t natural or Physio or caring for their feet... some horses like their stable and some horses don’t, some don’t mind the rain some hate it etc etc... it’s all variable all we can do is what we think is best at any one time... whether we got itright or not - well we’ll have to wait til they can talk to discover the answer to that unanswerable question
 

eggs

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Well we have just had a quick ride during my lunch break and have put B and R back in their stables rather than turning them back out even though the other horses won't be coming in for about an hour. B is one of those horses that does seem to prefer being in his stable to being out in the field and is now happily munching on his hay. At the first sniff of rain he is straight into the barn.

I am a big believer in giving horses as much turnout as possible and am lucky that mine are kept at home and all go out together into a big field with plenty of shelter. Like others, mine are in during the summer to keep them out of the flies and heat and go out at night which I then swap around in the winter. Partly the swapping over is to help the fields but mainly it is more for my own convenience.
 

honetpot

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In the horses evolution we are just a blip, and certainly the way horses are kept leisure and companion animals is only recent.
Up to the WW11 the only horses you saw were working or used for sport for the very rich. There are some amazing videos of horses in London a the end of the 1800's.
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They were kept in stables, or stalls and bit like the Kings Troop , but worked hard, but they lived and worked in a mini herd.
Our evolution and instinctive reactions are hard wired into our body for protection, that's why when someone makes a sudden movement we flinch, for the horse even more so, we are hunters they are prey animals.
The way horses are treated and the expectations placed on them to adapt, to what to them is unnatural conditions has increased to the point that more are showing behavioural issues which are treated with a 'calmer', and a gadget, this I would say the biggest change has been in the last 10 years.
A young women has posted on FB that she has bought a just weaned foal, put in a nice clean stable, with lovely clean shaving, with no company and wonders why its with drawn and not eating. They are not hamsters, canines or even human and should be not expected behave like one.
There may be some that are so habituated to domestication that they will stand being cooped up for long periods with out exercise and company that they can survive without showing stress, but they should be treated as an exception, not a reason to promote it for others.
The only 'upside' is there are people making money from treating the problems poor management creates.
 

Goldenstar

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The vast majority of horses are so engineered by humans that they are completely unsuited to life as wild animals .
There are many upsides for the well managed horse freedom from predation is the big one , healthcare that keeps them alive far longer freedom from hunger and having to survive winters with little food .
People who think that horses who are calm stabled have been habituated to some sort of awful experiance that they hate must have hideous stables and be very bad at training and understanding horses .
I think many horses living out in small paddocks in winter are have a truely miserable time and people doing this would not be so quick to assume the moral high ground .
Weaning does not need to be a hideous separation experiance I never did it that way so using an idiot weaning a foal as example of the evils of stabling makes no sense .
I have not had many horses that I lost to dengenerative lameness young In fact I don’t think I can think of any .
The combined system is the best all round for the horse living in an environment where the horse is happy in the stable is what owners should striving for or for example should your horse have the misfortune to break a leg it will be dead .
I also would love hear what those outers up on their moral high ground think about field accidents which form a large part of every vets practices profits .
This in bad out good view of the world is way to narrow .
 

mums the groom

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Laminitis tends to keep my welshie in more than out, can't believe we're in November and the grass is still growing/dangerous for my little boy. Can't complain too much this time last year we were underwater with rain until may.
 

honetpot

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The vast majority of horses are so engineered by humans that they are completely unsuited to life as wild animals
You can engineer all you like the outside but the wiring is still the same.
That's why a dog is still a pack animal, and its been as domesticated as long as horses, it's pack now may include humans. Cows still follow their instincts when a calf is born and guard it, and horse will on most occasions run away from danger. You can habituate them to certain situations and sometimes over ride it but the basic instincts are still the same. If you ignore the hardwiring both the animal and human can get into trouble.
I do not know the exact timeline but I think cattle have been domesticated longer than horses, they were kept for milk and used as draft animals, they still are in some parts of the world. Even now you have to work with their instincts.
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Cortez

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You can engineer all you like the outside but the wiring is still the same.
That's why a dog is still a pack animal, and its been as domesticated as long as horses, it's pack now may include humans. Cows still follow their instincts when a calf is born and guard it, and horse will on most occasions run away from danger. You can habituate them to certain situations and sometimes over ride it but the basic instincts are still the same. If you ignore the hardwiring both the animal and human can get into trouble.
I do not know the exact timeline but I think cattle have been domesticated longer than horses, they were kept for milk and used as draft animals, they still are in some parts of the world. Even now you have to work with their instincts.
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Not quite sure what your point is? NOTHING we do with horses is natural, if you're going to own and ride one that's the first thing you should understand.

Understanding the way they are hardwired is all part of horsemanship, as is taking care of them properly. If someone is keeping a horse in, let me see if I can get this right....dark, unventilated, isolated stables without exercise, then they are NOT taking proper care. However most of us are keeping them in light, well ventilated stables with access/sight/interaction with other horses and and at least adequate exercise, usually with regular turnout.

And perhaps some of us are keeping them out in small, poached paddocks with inadequate shelter and filled with weeds; that's also not good, even if you're chuffed with yourself for being a 24/7 'er.

I agree with GS: a combination of stabling with turnout seems to work best for ridden horses and their riders.
 

SEL

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the reason is simply, houses are being built on pockets of land which were once grazed by horses. Myself and friends were discussing not long ago and 9/10 yards that offered 24/7 turnout, or had unrestricted grazing within a 15 mile radius had all been built on! If you can find turnout, great, I am a big believer of it! Mine only come in when they ask...…..or before a competition as I need them to rest energy wise!
That is a HUGE problem around my area. The yard I'm on now has planning permission for houses on the site. I think Brexit is ruining the confidence of the smaller builders, but it does mean we all have nice large fields for winter which we are too bothered about trashing :p
 

JFTDWS

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It's not my experience that stabled horses get plenty of exercise in winter - on many of the yards I've been on, the horses are often on very limited or no turnout and next to no work too. I don't think it's ever acceptable to leave a (healthy) horse stabled for 24/7 with no exercise - but that is the reality on some yards around here. Even worse, it often goes hand in hand with hours on end without forage or feed.

I don't worry if people like GS or Cortez stable their horses, because I know they're sane and sensible and are actually able and willing to work the horses in their care properly. I wouldn't choose it for mine - I'd rather they were out, even if that is in a poached paddock - though with access to a hard area, and forage of some sort (grass, hay, whatever). I do think for the majority of leisure owners, turnout should be more of a priority, because they rarely work horses so hard. That should be quality turnout - interaction with other horses, access to dry (or hard) ground, and access to forage - but not just endless days of standing in stables and barely moving.
 

Cortez

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No horse should be left in for endless days without being exercised, that's not proper care. But if a horse is being stabled and PROPERLY worked, that is IMO better than being left out in a bog. Am I right in forming the opinion that many people use turnout instead of exercise?
 

JFTDWS

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Turnout is a form of exercise...

It's not fair, or reasonable to conflate appropriate turnout with "left out in a bog", as though the two are inter-changable, given that you are drawing the distinction between a horse left in without exercise (which is sadly common practice), and those with appropriate exercise.


I think horses left without forage, in bogs or stables, without shelter in the field, or hard standing, or in a stable without company or exercise - it's all rubbish. I don't really care which camp people sit in because it's just extremes of poor management in either direction. I think it's perfectly possible to keep horses stabled some of the time and maintain their welfare standards, but I also think it's perfectly possible to do that out in the field too - even if they're working.
 
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