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murphysmum123

murphysmum123

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I have a 5 year old cob x when i bought him I was looking for a bombproof dope on a rope, I went to see him tried him and decided to buy him. He is great in every way except he bucks going into canter. I have had his teeth checked (had one of his wolf teeth out) his saddle changed twice and back checked, everything I can think of. I have had two instructors out to help me (i do see myself as a novice) try and sort this and he is now also bucking when we put him into trot. Both instructors have witness him doing the bucks and reckon its because he is young and fresh, but isn't anything nasty. I contacted the previous owner to say what was happening and she said he used to do the bucking with her (nice of her to tell me now!) and she thinks he will grow out of it. I have now lost my confidence, I have tried everything I can think of to try and sort this problem out, the next step I was thinking was to send him away to be reschooled and hope they can sort the bucking out, although I know I need to work on him too, as I don't want him to come back from being schooled and start bucking with me as this is what he is used to doing. My 13 year old daughter has ridden him also and so have both instructors and he does it to all of them too, I am at my wits end he is a lovely member of the family so don't really want to sell him, but I m getting to the point where I am dredding riding him. Srry for the rant!:(
 
How is his balance? Could the bucks be triggered by concerns about his own balance? If so, plenty of transitions on the lunge might help him sort himself out a bit. If he's discovered that bucking means he doesn't have to work so hard, be careful, you may be 'teaching' him to buck as well.
 
He's a five yo no 5yo can ever be a dope on a rope or bombproof .
I hate the term dope on a rope it's so derogatory .
A calm trustworthy horse is never a dope it's a gem.
 
I loaned a young mare who did the same thing, all pain was ruled out, she was just young, unbalanced and a little bit stroppy! We completely solved the problem with this method, it may not work for you but it certainly worked with the mare who could throw in mighty bucks.

You first need to have your horse completely reliant off voice and seat as the exercise involves stopping from any pace therefore you don't want to be hauling on their mouth. We taught the mare nancy to stop with a squeeze a the thighs and a voice cue, she learnt this very quickly. We basically did a lot of transitions after this was established, if she bucked he was asked to halt immediately, she would then be asked for the transition again. She was a very forward thinking mare therefore she soon got the idea that bucking led to stopping which led to boring etc...

She soon learnt bucking would get her no where and we ended up with a cracking well balanced mare.. She was part hackney so didn't find canter easy!
 
Goldenstar said:
He's a five yo no 5yo can ever be a dope on a rope or bombproof .
I hate the term dope on a rope it's so derogatory .
A calm trustworthy horse is never a dope it's a gem.
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I agree with this, dope on a rope is a horrible term to use

It sounds like the horse is just too much for you and probably needs a more competent owner
 
Magnetic Sparrow said:
How is his balance? Could the bucks be triggered by concerns about his own balance? If so, plenty of transitions on the lunge might help him sort himself out a bit. If he's discovered that bucking means he doesn't have to work so hard, be careful, you may be 'teaching' him to buck as well.
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This sounds very plausible. We had a similar problem and it was due to our big cob feeling very insecure in the relatively small area of a school. Also, what is the surface like? Ours bucked on a traditional sand school as he found it hard work and frightening but on an all-weather rubber surface the problem disappeared.

Cobs are slow to mature and frequently find it difficult to bend. I agree with lots of lunge transitions on the biggest circle you can make, if he bucks then simply ignore it and push him on. As long as there are no underlying physical causes (and you say his back has been checked) he will find his balance and discover that bucking uses more energy than quietly going into a transition!

Furthermore, you say he is five. That answers a LOT!! So many lovely horses trun into real brats when they are five :rolleyes: If you can afford it then get an experienced instructor to ride him for you as well.

You don't say how he is kept. Everything may well improve when/if spring comes and he has 24/7 turnout.

Good luck, if he is the boy in your avatar then he looks lovely.
 
Faracat said:
Not this old chestnut again. :p
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Well maybe you are right. ALL horses are slower to mature than many give them credit for. But I have had Sec Ds for some years and although they happily grow upwards it is a while before they fill out and fully develop. Any horse with the centre of gravity of a cob is going to find work in an arena tougher than a lighter breed.

Plus there is mental maturity as well as physical!!! :D
 
Thanks you all for your advice, sorry I didn't mean to insult anyone when using the term "dope on a rope".

I wll try and find another instructor, I have just moved to Dorset so if anyone knows of a good instructor who could help me that would be great.

Perhaps I have overhorsed myself but feel like I want to try and solve this before I think of selling him.
 
Where does he buck? School, field, hacking all three? Have you tried lungeing him without a saddle, if so, did he still buck?
 
he bucks in the schol on a hack with or without other horses, when i lunge him with no saddle on he bucks also, it seems if we go any faster than a walk he will try putting a buck in.
 
OK. Does he buck right after the transition into a faster pace and then stop bucking, or does he buck several times in a faster pace?
 
well with me he will buck a couple of times and then go into canter if i am out hacking with other horses, with my daughter he will buck and she then usually falls off so stops completely, then she will only walk him as loses her confidence. Someimes especially in the school we will get him into canter and he will just buck and buck until we stop and bring him back to walk or stop completely, I feel its beginning to be a learned behaviour.
 
Does he buck more on one rein than the other?

TBH this is beginning to sound like a learned behaviour and I think Littlelegs suggestion will be the way forward.
 
I would also think it's more of a balance issue. My mare is 8 but I brought her from a field. After every specialist had seen her they said she'd been broken incorrectly. I rebroke her and she did excatley the same. Once she was worked a lot this issue went away as she gained her balance and confidence and built up her muscles. I'd do a lot of transitions and a lot of circles and serpintines when ridden in walk and trot, if you hack out do a lot of hill work. Then lunge work with transitions in canter until he's got his confidence cantering on his own. Once happy then introduce canter with you riding, but either do very big circles, or along the long sides of the arena. Then ask for smaller circles onces he's used to carrying a rider. Once doing this, having lessons with someone who has expereience with young horse can really boost yours and your horse's confidence. Hope you both get sorted soon :-)
 
The young haflinger I used to ride, bucked going into canter without fail, it was a balance issue and he didn't know what to do with his legs, a season hacking and then hunting solved the problem, he was also 5 x
 
Have you seen the rstor thing? Something like that might help you/daughter stay on and reduce the confidence issues. then you can concentrate on dealing with the behaviour.
 
My cob was bucking into canter and then progressed to dropping his shoulder with it-crafty devil!!

I had a back man come who works from feet upwards and pulled his legs in all sorts of funny directions to work out where he was flexible and stiff. Turned out he had a stiff hamstring on opposite diagonal so he was all unbalanced.

Now I have to lift his feet and hold for a minute 2x per day to help him balance and then he told me to forget top line and work on core muscles to help strength and balance which just means bringing him into an outline for 5 mins for every 20 mins I ride. Finally I have to sit on my big bouncy ball that I used for birthing to sort my balance.

Don't know if any if this applies but I have been doing it for 4 weeks and no bucking :)

Good luck with it, I had it for 2 years and it knocked my confidence dreadfully xx
 
Sorry you are having trouble with your horse. It's no fun when it saps your confidence.

From your picture it looks like he is pretty short coupled with not a lot of back for any length of saddle. I wonder if perhaps you were using a saddle which was a bit long for him or made you sit to the back of it? This could cause back ache and stiffness for him and the more he is ridden, the more problems it brings for him. This then manifests itself in all gaits and as it is showing on the lunge too then perhaps he is trying to tell you he is uncomfortable? Saddles can cause all sorts of problems such as bucking, head down, yanking the reins from you, lack of balance and muscle tightness which if left to continue will affect the horse even without the rider.

Of course he may just have started this due to lack of balance and then realised he can get out of work but more likely it was due to discomfort of some sort. There are a few avenues to take...

If you think it is naughtiness/learned behaviour then get a good rider to ride him consistently for a week or two without anyone else riding him and see if there is any difference.

Otherwise, get a good chiro/physio to him for a once over to check for any problems, then a saddler to check saddle fit/appropriate length etc (for both of you) and then get the good rider in for a couple of weeks.

After either approach, if there is any improvement than getting the rider to help you with your riding would help your confidence and ability to help your horse to balance.

I'm sure you can get to the bottom of it. Just takes a bit of time, observation and finding the right people to help you.
 
In addition to advice already given:

when you are sure his tack and body have been checked then go back to basics as you say you are already inadvertenlty teaching him to buck when you ask for canter.

Don't bother with canter for a few weeks, work on his walk and trot first. He is young and needs to feel confident with himself and balanced. It is better to wait with the canter pace and try when you are both ready, you will probably find it happens when you least expect and you will both be surprised.

He may also be confused and not understand what you want as well as not being comfortable with the canter pace.

One of the biggest mistakes you can make when trainnig is to ask a horse for more than he is capable of giving. If you ask him to hold the canter for too long and he is forced to break gait, you have pushed your horse into disobedience, in that next time you ask he may protest and play up, buck etc.
So whether on the ground or mounted, just ask for short lengths of canter, then ask him to come back to a walk or trot while you are still in control.

When you do ask him to canter, just go for a few strides then back to trot and gradually increase the amount of time you ask him to canter.

If he does try to buck, keep his head up with one rein (pulling on two reins when a horse bucks usually spells disaster), but do not let him stop. He should only get to stop when he is relaxed, obedient and moving forward.

When you do eventually feel ready for canter go out on a hack, find a hill and try there - he won't find it easy to buck when going uphill and just be happy with a few paces of canter to start with.

Patience, persistence and perseverance is the key.

Is he in your avatar - he looks lovely have you other photos of him ?
 
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Hi,

Thanks to you all who have taken the time to reply, I am currently looking for an instructor and have emailed one that someone has recommended. I have read through all your posts and I am thinking I wil get someone in to school him and help me with this issue, I am going to also get a vet out to give him the once over and see if there is anything obvious.
Many Thanks Again,
Angela.
 
Cantering can often be a problem for cobs (they were originally bred to pull, not to ride), and they are very prone to bucking to get into canter as it is not easy for them to make the transition from trot. I rather enjoy this (being a weird person who thinks it's fun), but can understand others not appreciating the gesture. Getting them really balanced and clear in the transition is key; enjoy the bucks - it makes you a really good rider in the long run!
 
murphysmum123 said:
Hi,

Thanks to you all who have taken the time to reply, I am currently looking for an instructor and have emailed one that someone has recommended. I have read through all your posts and I am thinking I wil get someone in to school him and help me with this issue, I am going to also get a vet out to give him the once over and see if there is anything obvious.
Many Thanks Again,
Angela.
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Hi Angela, i used to have the same sort of issues and had massive confidence issues too, I lived in Cornwall at the time and got a fantastic instructor who helped me work through it all from the ground up, I don't know where abouts in cornwall you are but if you want to pm me I can give you my old instructors number, she's freelance and would come to you and reasonably priced
 
I would work him on lunge, he's a young horse so could be a balance issue as someone else has said.

When you say buck, is it a real buck or a fly buck?
 
Cortez said:
Cantering can often be a problem for cobs (they were originally bred to pull, not to ride), and they are very prone to bucking to get into canter as it is not easy for them to make the transition from trot. I rather enjoy this (being a weird person who thinks it's fun), but can understand others not appreciating the gesture. Getting them really balanced and clear in the transition is key; enjoy the bucks - it makes you a really good rider in the long run!
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Totaly agree cortez.Bob the nota cob would do weird "dolphin like" bu:Dcks on going into canter . Of course he is slightly insane so shouldnt be taken as a typical example:D
 
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