can this be right

Horsesforever1, please can you give us all some tips then? :D :D

Me and hubby were just discussing this the other day, wondering where people get their money from? As I said we both are university graduates, have good jobs, a mortgage and 2 cars, 1 horse, and a baby on the way, and we would LOVE to be able to buy a bit of land, or better still a small farm. There's one down the road from us - 3 bedroom house, stables, garages and a couple of outbuildings plus 3 acres. We need to raise about £150k on top of what we have in our own house/mortgage...

HOW ON EARTH do people do it? It's so frustrating trogging off to work every day to come home to a box!!!
 
The big problem is that all benefits are supposed to be 'subsistance' i.e. to just cover the cost of basic living and many people need and deserve the support, however, there are some (and a not insignificant minority I'd wager) who play the system (and seem to have an equal lifestyle to my own and I've worked for *! years) as well as others who 'cheat' it.

I say, if you think people have benefits they shouldn't have, report them or if you aren't prepared to do so then don't raise it as an issue! If they are 'cheating' it is a crime, it is fraud, if they are claiming everything they can 'within the law' (and have an inflated standard of living), then that is a failing of government and if you are concerned you should raise it with your MP!
 
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Tinseltoes said:
I know someone who lives in a council house,they have 8 kids,( seems she has a baby every year) neither of them work,no animals and they live better than people who work full time.#
My hubby came over from USA and found a job.I am a home maker and we use my CTC for my rent.I am lucky I have VERY cheap grazing.
Makes you wonder how these people get away with it.
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Some people might say that if 'foreigners' stayed at home and didn't take British jobs, there would be fewer families claiming benefits. Others might say that CTC should be spent on the children, not on livery rent.

Personally, I'd rather live and let live.

None of us actually know other people's circumstances, even if we think we do, so really can't comment or judge.

Having worked with many families claiming a range of benefits/earning minimum wage, I can tell you that it is definitely not an easy way of life.
 
FionaM12 said:
Working Families Tax Credit is fantastic. As soon as I was well enough, I got a low paid part-time job and that along with WFTC gave me masses more than I got on benefit. But yes it was a struggle when my child reached 18 and it stopped. :eek:[/QUOTE
I hope to employ my first employee next year. I will be seeking advice before doing so because quite frankly i would rather employ someone who isnt getting masses of cash or fantastic working family tax credit. Some weeks in a small business you just can t take a wage.. imagine struggling to pay someones wages when they were getting masses of cash and fantastic wftc... and then trotting off home after their alotted 16 hours?
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Noblesteed, heres the situation. Me and DH are in our 50's. Dh works full time. the cars are ancient. My son who lives at homes pays "keep". We own our house outright by downsizing. its a 2 bed terraced. The field and yard were bought separately ,about half a mile from the house with an inheritance.
our neighbour bought her farm with a large inheritance and doesnt have to work. she is single. her father flies in by helicopter to visit her................................................
 
luckyoldme said:
FionaM12 said:
Working Families Tax Credit is fantastic. As soon as I was well enough, I got a low paid part-time job and that along with WFTC gave me masses more than I got on benefit. But yes it was a struggle when my child reached 18 and it stopped. :eek:[/QUOTE

WFTC did it's job and got FM12 back to work and off benefits as WFTC is a TAX credit NOT a Welfare Benefit per se

I hope to employ my first employee next year. I will be seeking advice before doing so because quite frankly i would rather employ someone who isnt getting masses of cash or fantastic working family tax credit. Some weeks in a small business you just can t take a wage.. imagine struggling to pay someones wages when they were getting masses of cash and fantastic wftc... and then trotting off home after their alotted 16 hours?
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Would you not give the job to the best candidate? Isn't that best for your business regardless of what credits they are getting? If you 'discriminate' like this I think you'll need a very strong case to justify why x person got the job when y didn't!
To qualify for WTC you need to do AT LEAST 16 hours per week, not a maximum, so they wouldn't necessarily need to 'trot off home' after 16 hours.
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we had one on a yard i was on many moons ago. finally this person got a job.... some kind of miracle tbh

probs cause their benefits got cut.... :D (what a shame.... :D )
 
VoR said:
luckyoldme said:
Would you not give the job to the best candidate? Isn't that best for your business regardless of what credits they are getting? If you 'discriminate' like this I think you'll need a very strong case to justify why x person got the job when y didn't!
To qualify for WTC you need to do AT LEAST 16 hours per week, not a maximum, so they wouldn't necessarily need to 'trot off home' after 16 hours.
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I know personally very little about the scheme
Iknow personally two claimants and have read what two claimants have to say on here.
one claimant i know has two horses and absolutely no way on earth will she work more that 16 hours.... She has her horses to think about.
the other claimant i know works her 16 hours for her partner who does/doesnt live with her and only does cash in hand anything above that.
one claimant on here is struggling to cope (with her horses 4x4 and large dogs) now that her eldest is 18 and her wftc has been cut.
The other claimant on here is now having to work because her youngest is 18.
I want an employee that wants to work not someone who needs to work a few hours to get masses of money off the government.
My customers are long distance truckers...they work very long hours. They are fairly vocal in their views about handouts.
What exactly does tax credit mean and how is it really any different from any other hand out.?
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I wouldnt discriminate .. i would just tell most of them the job was 20 hours a week and they would find that most unbearable anyways.
 
luckyoldme said:
VoR said:
I know personally very little about the scheme
Iknow personally two claimants and have read what two claimants have to say on here.
one claimant i know has two horses and absolutely no way on earth will she work more that 16 hours.... She has her horses to think about.
the other claimant i know works her 16 hours for her partner who does/doesnt live with her and only does cash in hand anything above that.
one claimant on here is struggling to cope (with her horses 4x4 and large dogs) now that her eldest is 18 and her wftc has been cut.
The other claimant on here is now having to work because her youngest is 18.
I want an employee that wants to work not someone who needs to work a few hours to get masses of money off the government.
My customers are long distance truckers...they work very long hours. They are fairly vocal in their views about handouts.
What exactly does tax credit mean and how is it really any different from any other hand out.?
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Then you will need to pay an excellent wage, which will lift your employee out of eligibility for Working Families Tax Credit.
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FionaM12 said:
I really hate these type of threads. :(

Because of my health I've lived on benefit in the past (not now, thankfully). It was desperately hard to make ends meet on the paltry sums I received and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Luckily for me I had friends and family to help when things got really unbearable.

Now I'm fortunate enough to be able to work again, and I'm thankful for that. I don't know how these people you know manage to live, but to be honest I'm not remotely interested. Life's too short to become bitter and twisted thinking others are having an easier time.

Their situation probably isn't at all what you think it is anyway.
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Well said. You can never truly know someone's financial situation unless you look through all their bank statements, incomings and outgoings etc etc - don't waste your energy making assumptions and getting angry about the "unfairness" of it all you will never gain anything from these feelings - save your energy for the things YOU want out of life and find a way to make them happen for YOU.
 
Hey pearl is this so ? Is everyone on wftc?
From what i see on here and at home most of them are dreading their youngest becoming 18.
I can t claim it because i have no dependants.
My ideal employee would be someone in my age group with a good work ethic.. or in interview speak someone more mature and experienced. :-)
My pay rate will be slightly above the local going rate so candidates can take it or leave it. Either way I wont be employing anyone on wftc. I know many businesses locally and further affield who operate the same policy. We have to work long hours to keep our businesses going.. why should we employ folk who want to work 16 hours and then go home to play with their ponies... all funded by the government?
 
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I'm sure there are people on my yard who wonder about me... I have 3 horses, 26, 19 and a 4 year old I bred. I dont work and I am supported by benefits... however, I have 2 autistic children (out of 3) so actually the yard is my escape (and actually helps them too!) and what they dont know is that I have paid well over 20K a year in tax ALONE for the past TEN years until I got made redundant....

so I think I've earned a little break (and I am in the second interview stage of a new position)
 
luckyoldme said:
Hey pearl is this so ? Is everyone on wftc?
From what i see on here and at home most of them are dreading their youngest becoming 18.
I can t claim it because i have no dependants.
My ideal employee would be someone in my age group with a good work ethic.. or in interview speak someone more mature and experienced. :-)
My pay rate will be slightly above the local going rate so candidates can take it or leave it. Either way I wont be employing anyone on wftc. I know many businesses locally and further affield who operate the same policy. We have to work long hours to keep our businesses going.. why should we employ folk who want to work 16 hours and then go home to play with their ponies?
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People get WFTC if they are earning under a certain amount and have a family to support, if you dont want to employ someone who qualifies for WFTC you will need to pay them over the maximum amount they can earn whilst claiming it or make sure you employ someone who has no family. You are being very narrow minded about this. WFTC is there to help families on a low income to be able to afford to go to work either FT or PT rather than stay at home and claim benefits. WFTC decreases as earnings increase, the idea being that families are not living on the breadline and losing out because they accept paid work which would sometimes leave them much worse off when they lose their benefits.
 
luckyoldme said:
Either way I wont be employing anyone on wftc. I know many businesses locally and further affield who operate the same policy. We have to work long hours to keep our businesses going.. why should we employ folk who want to work 16 hours and then go home to play with their ponies... all funded by the government?
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I must have misunderstood wftc, I didnt think it was anything to do with folk that only wanted to work 16 hrs, or play with gov funded ponies :confused:

I thought it was something that gave low earning people a boost to their low wage, to perhaps enable them to get out of the unemployment/poverty trap.
 
luckyoldme said:
Hey pearl is this so ? Is everyone on wftc?
From what i see on here and at home most of them are dreading their youngest becoming 18.
I can t claim it because i have no dependants.
My ideal employee would be someone in my age group with a good work ethic.. or in interview speak someone more mature and experienced. :-)
My pay rate will be slightly above the local going rate so candidates can take it or leave it. Either way I wont be employing anyone on wftc. I know many businesses locally and further affield who operate the same policy. We have to work long hours to keep our businesses going.. why should we employ folk who want to work 16 hours and then go home to play with their ponies... all funded by the government?
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for someone who runs a buisness you come across as very niave.

even those who haven't got children can claim wftc. I know two couples who haven't got children who claim it. Tax credits actually works out well if you're an employer, as employees with families often stick at their jobs better. Tax credits work within tax brackets, often the more you earn, the more you get.

I'd suggest you go study the rates before shootng yourself in the foot.
 
Snow Angel said:
I must have misunderstood wftc, I didnt think it was anything to do with folk that only wanted to work 16 hrs, or play with gov funded ponies :confused:

I thought it was something that gave low earning people a boost to their low wage, to perhaps enable them to get out of the unemployment/poverty trap.
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You are correct Snow Angel and if it's not being claimed illegally then I see nothing wrong with it!!!!!!!???????
 
I am not being narrow minded.
We have one claimant who is worried about how she will pay for her horses house 4x4 s and dogs now that her eldest has turned 18 and her benefits are cut. Another who i cant touch because she wants cash in hand and a third who only wants to work 16 hours so that she can spend time with her horses and also continue to claim wftc.
I want a system that supports folk that need it, not these chancers and i certainly don t want them in my workplace.
 
RubysGold said:
I know people similar
one family with 6 kids and 3 horses! Council house. Have a car
another lady with several horses up the yard that doesn't work.
Its madness
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This is light! my next door neighbours have 8 kids, stole the house with 8 acres of land from their grandfather and he now lives in the next village. They have 17 horses (at least) at home, at livery and on several fields in the area. Only he works and that is at minimum wage. She used to boast that the tax credits guy told her him to take a pay cut so the tax credits match the benefits and child allowance. They live on £60,000 a year!

She's a bankrupt twice over and refuses to pay all the bills including TV licence, electric and water, vets bills, feed merchant and road tax.

I took a pay cut to get the job I wanted and I can't afford the livery in my new town so I drive home everyweekend to see my horses and ride. It's not fair doesn't cover it!
 
I finished a temporary job last year, and was in hospital a lot after it. I was very poorly and managed about 4 admissions, lasting around 2 weeks on average, for 6 months. Due to this I couldn't work or get another job until I was better.
I survived on benefits (Employment Support Allowance, benefit for people who can't work due to sickness, same amount as Jobseekers Allowance, piss poor amount!) for 6 months. I was luckily living at home so didn't have to pay rent but my pony at the time was out 24/7 and I struggled so much to look after him. He was barefoot, only on hay etc.

To anyone looking in, I wasn't working, yet managed to afford to keep a pony. I was going up to the yard, so clearly I wasn't ill, I was faking it to get a benefit I didn't deserve (!).

Assumption is a VERY dangerous thing. OP, unless you are a close friend of the family, you have no right to judge them on what their money is spent on. How do you know how their money is obtained?!

(For what it's worth now, I'm back at work and moderately better. I now also have a rainy day fund should anything similar happen again.)
 
and then theres single mothers. There are a few in hour village. none live with a partnet but most see the childs father a few times a week and get on well withthem. Why? because they are financially better off that way. Its all wrong.
 
Horsesforever1 said:
and then theres single mothers. There are a few in hour village. none live with a partnet but most see the childs father a few times a week and get on well withthem. Why? because they are financially better off that way. Its all wrong.
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bloody hell you will burn in hell with me for that one!!
 
luckyoldme said:
Hey pearl is this so ? Is everyone on wftc?
From what i see on here and at home most of them are dreading their youngest becoming 18.
I can t claim it because i have no dependants.
My ideal employee would be someone in my age group with a good work ethic.. or in interview speak someone more mature and experienced. :-)
My pay rate will be slightly above the local going rate so candidates can take it or leave it. Either way I wont be employing anyone on wftc. I know many businesses locally and further affield who operate the same policy. We have to work long hours to keep our businesses going.. why should we employ folk who want to work 16 hours and then go home to play with their ponies... all funded by the government?
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You can get working tax credit if you have no eligible children but are on a fairly basic wage. If you have children you can claim child tax credit as well which gives you a bit more.

Unless you are paying a huge wage I don't think you would have any say in whether your potential new employee was claiming or going to claim tax credits.

I spent two winters existing on incapacity benefit and could barely afford to eat, never mind heat the house or afford a horse so I too would like to know how these people manage to fund such a lavish lifestyle on benefits. I can only think that they are less than truthful when they fill in their forms...................

On a similar theme, watching the program about the riots in London and the youngsters who described it as 'the best couple of days of their lives' - the majority of them were on benefits but they all seemed to be able to afford top of the range Blackberrys and one of the ringleaders unfortunately had to cut short his holiday abroad to come home early so he didn't miss any of the action. He clearly stated he was out of work, living on benefits. Holiday is a word I have to look up in the dictionary!!
 
and what about the self employed who fiddle the system? The self-cert mortgages,the cash in hand jobs? I know of 3 couples here who are doing very well indeed. There is no way they are being honest to the tax man. Makes me mad. one,who owns a pub and several houses which he lets out sends his child to private school but claims child tax credits. we know this because he wrote about it in the newspaper locally. he pays himself and his wife minimum wage and ploughs every penny from his pub and rents into his ever expanding property empire. He claims every benefit going and is doing really well. Another couple with young children locally are doing a similar thing. the system is wrong to let them do this.
 
luckyoldme said:
I am not being narrow minded.
We have one claimant who is worried about how she will pay for her horses house 4x4 s and dogs now that her eldest has turned 18 and her benefits are cut. Another who i cant touch because she wants cash in hand and a third who only wants to work 16 hours so that she can spend time with her horses and also continue to claim wftc.
I want a system that supports folk that need it, not these chancers and i certainly don t want them in my workplace.
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the lady you speak of (4x4, horses, dog) is a single mother, if you read, not through going round opening her legs to all and sundry but from separation from her long term husband. The tax credits she would have recieved would be child tax credits, which almost every child's guardian is entitled to. I'd hazard a guess the horses are on cheap livery and the 4x4 isn't the disco sport you envisage. Are you suggesting she should sell her children's pets because her husband left?

Someone I know earns 45k a year and as a single parent - gets child tax credits and working tax credits. Our income is much less, and we don't get working tax credits... but I don't mind :)

So unless you choose someone who hasn't got children or you pay a fantastic wage, I think you'll be a long time finding a sitable candidate.

I didn't say you were narrow minded, I said niave (ie a bit simple) and add to that extremely judgemental.
 
From personal experience and straight from the mouth of the claiment.
When the "executive" type house on the development we bought our house on (converted steading that was attatched to farmhouse, six in all) did not sell (the asking price was £470K ) the developers decided that they would rent it out and within a very short space of time we were told that a woman and nine disabled children was moving in. I immediately thought WOW she must have some heart. I thought she must be a professional foster carer. They duly moved in and one boy got very friendly with my 15 year old daughter and ate practically every meal with us. I was interested as to which way he was disabled. He told me he had ADHD and Aspbergers. Also that when he was sixteen he would get the higher rate DLA to himself. On speaking to the mother she claimed and got higher rate DLA for each and every child that lived in that house. She had given birth to the nine kids that lived with her, but also had an older son living away from home and had miscarried another one. Of the nine children living in that house she had one autistic son. She had quickly cottoned on to the benefits that having children with disablements could bring and as each one was born she got them "labelled" asap.
I have a son with aspbergers also a grandson, and I have a daughter with epilepsy. She proceeded to give me chapter and verse on how to fool the doctors into supporting her claims. The local council "maximising benefits dept" was on speed dial. Apart from the son with autism the other eight were just badly behaved children and actively encouraged to be so.
This person got £3K a week to support herself and her children. She got a lovely new mini bus every three years. They went on cruises, they had regular breaks at Center Parks. They ate take aways EVERY night
They stayed next door to us for ten months and then moved out leaving the place like a doss house. I phoned the agent as there was water running in the house flooding it. The agent had no idea they had left. She asked me to go round it as witness to how it was left. The toilets, shower rooms etc had never seen so much as a drop of bleach. They had nicked the fitted waedrobes, beds and televisions.
The next place they only lasted around six months before the mothers new boyfriend realised he was being rapidly directed along the aisle (he owned a pub) After she was given the heave by the boyfriend, she abandoned her autistic son in the local mental health unit and was last heard of in Mansfield where several of the fathers of her children live.
Hard life getting 12K a month to live on.
 
I don't begrudge anyone who is a genuine claimant getting the help they need, however there are loopholes whereby people are taking advantage of the system. I recently reported an ex employer for this. Nothing happened that I'm aware of it, but the scam went like this. She was a single mother of two kids with different dads. Dad no1 paid out towards first child. Dad 2 didn't. Mum is disabled in that she walks with crutches and gets tired quickly. She got a free house, free brand new people carrier, free council tax and all the other benefits she could possibly claim. She was also given money to employ a carer (me) to help her shower, wash, dress and go shopping. In effect she did all these things herself and I would do the ironing, clean the house and run errands she couldn't be bothered with. She paid another relative well over half her care budget to do her personal care when I wasn't there. Relative lived miles away and had no transport, never worked for her that I saw in almost two years.

This woman didn't work although she was more than capable of demolishing a wall in the graden with a sledgehammer when she wanted to, driving herself and kids anywhere they wanted to go, and had a teaching qualification. She had a house done out nicer than most, for the 3 of them in the house there were 4 flatscreen tvs, a Wii, and Xbox Kinect (the day they came out) laptops for each child, ipods, smart phones, digital cameras, dsi xl each and new clothes for everybody whenever she went shopping. She'd declared bankruptcy so had written off a mountain of debt too, and she's living the life of riley!

I took the job to pay for my horses when my husband took a major pay cut and I couldn't believe what she was doing, and for all those devil's advocates out there, yes I saw bank statements, yes I saw the goods coming in and yes I know exactly for definite what she was fit to do. I worked for her for almost 2 years, never ever had to help her with any personal care whatsoever. I quit when her social worker called me at home and asked me what I did for her and told me what the budget was for.

Appreciate this isn't about her keeping horses, but she could have if she'd wanted to. It makes me sick to think she gets away with it! Especially knowing that my husband working at his good job, paying huge amounts of tax and NI every month is funding it! Yes we do live in a nicer house than she does and yes I have two horses and don't work now, but hubby works 50 hours min a week and we don't have new cars, can't get any kind of tax credits, help with childcare etc, so although I'd like to work by the time I've paid for childcare and fuel it isn't worth it. Obviously I don't claim benefits but I can't go out and spend £40 on a 'Gorgeous cushion' because 'I want it!'

Sorry rant over, subject a bit of a hot topic with me!
 
luckyoldme said:
I am not being narrow minded.
We have one claimant who is worried about how she will pay for her horses house 4x4 s and dogs now that her eldest has turned 18 and her benefits are cut. Another who i cant touch because she wants cash in hand and a third who only wants to work 16 hours so that she can spend time with her horses and also continue to claim wftc.
I want a system that supports folk that need it, not these chancers and i certainly don t want them in my workplace.
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So you'll either be paying over 40 grand a year in wages, or employing someone with no dependant children...
I hope for your sake its the former, or you'll find yourself in an awful lot of bother... which would be a real shame ;)
 
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lucky-lady said:
the lady you speak of (4x4, horses, dog) is a single mother, if you read, not through going round opening her legs to all and sundry but from separation from her long term husband. The tax credits she would have recieved would be child tax credits, which almost every child's guardian is entitled to. I'd hazard a guess the horses are on cheap livery and the 4x4 isn't the disco sport you envisage. Are you suggesting she should sell her children's pets because her husband left?

Someone I know earns 45k a year and as a single parent - gets child tax credits and working tax credits. Our income is much less, and we don't get working tax credits... but I don't mind :)

So unless you choose someone who hasn't got children or you pay a fantastic wage, I think you'll be a long time finding a sitable candidate.

I didn't say you were narrow minded, I said niave (ie a bit simple) and add to that extremely judgemental.
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I don t think i was replying to you i was replying to the person who said i was narrow minded.
Secondly I most certainly never ever made any assumptions about legs being wrapped round anything.... you are as far as im aware the first person to lower the discusion to that level.
The lady concerned now has to struggle to pay for horses a 4x4 and her dogs now that she can't claim tax credits for her eldest child. I'm sorry but that statement just doesn t evoke sympathy from me. If that makes me judgemental then its a cross i will bear.
 
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