can this be right

luckyoldme...i'm not an expert in employment law but i am fairly sure that you aren't allowed to discrimiate against people when they apply for jobs....so i'd be careful how you phrase things- it sounds like you are going to refuse to employ any single parents with children here.... :confused:
 
I'm sorry but that statement just doesn t evoke sympathy from me. If that makes me judgemental then its a cross i will bear.

Can I help carry your judgemental cross?!

If someone can't sustain their lifestyle because their child has hit a certain age then I don't think they deserve any sympathy.

But I do think the 4x4 is a misnomer (Sp?) a P reg disco is cheap to buy but (sometimes) necessary in the countryside.

If she only wore brand new designer clothes, went to the polo and racing to sup champagne and had a massive house in the countryside with 25 acres and race horses and show ponies and hunted 4 days a week and didn't work... then that would be an abise of the system!
 
luckyoldme...i'm not an expert in employment law but i am fairly sure that you aren't allowed to discrimiate against people when they apply for jobs....so i'd be careful how you phrase things- it sounds like you are going to refuse to employ any single parents with children here.... :confused:
most single parents do have children;)
I will be seeking advice obviously before i devize an interview process.
years ago during an interview for a trucking job i told the owner i was unable to have children. I wanted the job and i knew rightly or wrongly it is a big concern for many businesses. He thanked me and told me off the record that it was a huge relief. I got the job. Life isn t allways black and white.
 
No it is not right at all. :mad:

I'm 19, just dropped out of uni, I work a job where I got a lot of crap put on me, when it isn't in the job descripition and I don't get paid enough for it. It's a struggle every month for me to pay rent on my own (high priced area, get little for money, thinking of moving out of area just so I can have a bigger house/garden for £100 cheaper then what I have got). I work every week different hours, varying from 12.5 hours to 39 hours.

I've also had to get rid of my horse. :( Point of this self pity party? Why is someone who doesn't work doing a lot better then me? I appreciate for my age I am not doing too bad, but I work bloody hard for it, and at the end of that day I'd love to sit around and play with ponies but not going to happen.

Guess I'm just a good citizen aye? ;)

Ps. Sorry about the mini rant, I am feeling very defensive at the moment, and missing rainy day trips to see the nag :(
 
I wanted the job and i knew rightly or wrongly it is a big concern for many businesses. .

... and why is that?

I'd hazzard a guess that most employers worry about their staff having babies and not returning to work... Hello Working Tax Credits! Yes, I will go back to work, thank you very much for making my decision much easier for me ;)
 
Hey pearl is this so ?

My ideal employee would be someone in my age group with a good work ethic.. or in interview speak someone more mature and experienced. :-)
My pay rate will be slightly above the local going rate so candidates can take it or leave it. Either way I wont be employing anyone on wftc. I know many businesses locally and further affield who operate the same policy. We have to work long hours to keep our businesses going.. why should we employ folk who want to work 16 hours and then go home to play with their ponies... all funded by the government?

I'm not sure how you would know if your potential employees would be eligible for WFTC, unless you are intending to pay them so high a wage that they would not be eligible. The credit is not just based on one person's income but on the whole family's income, so a part-time worker on minimum hourly wage may not be eligible because his/her partner is a high earner, equally someone working full-time with a partner on very low wage may have circumstances which render them eligible.
I doubt, unless you are an accountant, that you would be able to work this out from the personal information that you are allowed to ask in the recruitment process, without falling foul of Equal Opp legislation.
 
... and why is that?

I'd hazzard a guess that most employers worry about their staff having babies and not returning to work... Hello Working Tax Credits! Yes, I will go back to work, thank you very much for making my decision much easier for me ;)
i was thinking more along the lines of having to pay maternity pay and a temporary worker to cover the leave... and double the training costs related to the job. It makes perfect sense really for them to reduce the risk by employing a more 'experienced male'. Im not saying its right and as a female trucker I came up against it all the time... Almost impossible to prove though.
 
I'm not sure how you would know if your potential employees would be eligible for WFTC, unless you are intending to pay them so high a wage that they would not be eligible. The credit is not just based on one person's income but on the whole family's income, so a part-time worker on minimum hourly wage may not be eligible because his/her partner is a high earner, equally someone working full-time with a partner on very low wage may have circumstances which render them eligible.
I doubt, unless you are an accountant, that you would be able to work this out from the personal information that you are allowed to ask in the recruitment process, without falling foul of Equal Opp legislation.
i agree with all of this and as i say i will be seeking advice and then looking for a suitable candidate based on my own criteria. However according to this thread almost every applicant i dont employ will be able to sue me for one reason or another.
 
i agree with all of this and as i say i will be seeking advice and then looking for a suitable candidate based on my own criteria. However according to this thread almost every applicant i dont employ will be able to sue me for one reason or another.

Not quite.

It was the comment about refusing to employ someone who may be eligable for Working Tax Credits, simply because you don't want them to 'work a 16 hour week and trot off home to their families' that seems to have riled most people, and rightly so.

It's good that you'll be seeking advice before conducting an interview process, something tells me you're going to need it. :)
 
Not quite.

It was the comment about refusing to employ someone who may be eligable for Working Tax Credits, simply because you don't want them to 'work a 16 hour week and trot off home to their families' that seems to have riled most people, and rightly so.

It's good that you'll be seeking advice before conducting an interview process, something tells me you're going to need it. :)

Well take it or leave it but "i only want 16 hours" is like a chant round here.
 
So to an outsider, I have a house, a large 4x4, horses, three large dogs etc (obviously the status quo from when I was married!) and was claiming benefits.

However, now one child is over 18 so my WFTC & CB has dropped dramatically and I am starting to struggle - somehow I have to try and be even more frugal! Actually I can see we will have to put this house on the market next year :(

I could say many things, but I won't....
 
That REALLY pisses me off!

Yes, it's better to stay on benefits than actually get out and earn a crust these days....!

This country is so flawed in so many ways....

GRRRRR.........

Or is it jsut that all the women with kids out there trying to get a job cant, because everybody thinks along the same lines as Luckyoldme, and refuses to employ them... just incase they have a baby and require maternity leave :rolleyes:
 
Statutory Maternity Pay is refunded by deductions from the NI you pay over. If the SMP is greater than the NI the balance is paid back to you. When I had to pay SMP to my Nanny (twice) I gave the Inland Revenue an estimate of the total & it was paid to me in advance. Not sure if that still happens. But I didn't find paying SMP to a personal employee out of my taxed salary a problem at all - & no I'm not mega rich, but with 2 kids a Nanny can be cheaper than nursery as well as being a lot more flexible which my job needed.
I personally hate WFTC as it is a subsidy to (some) employers who can get away with exploiting the desperate with an extremely low salary. And as a much as people can moan about people who receive WFTC I can give several examples of employers who are very happy to play that game to fund extremely luxurious life styles.
 
and what about the self employed who fiddle the system? The self-cert mortgages,the cash in hand jobs? I know of 3 couples here who are doing very well indeed. There is no way they are being honest to the tax man. Makes me mad. one,who owns a pub and several houses which he lets out sends his child to private school but claims child tax credits. we know this because he wrote about it in the newspaper locally. he pays himself and his wife minimum wage and ploughs every penny from his pub and rents into his ever expanding property empire. He claims every benefit going and is doing really well. Another couple with young children locally are doing a similar thing. the system is wrong to let them do this.

More generalisations and assumptions I am afraid. You have NO idea of how this man and his wife spend their money - or of their business arrangements. I have been involved in preparing accounts for the pub trade and rental properties and I can tell you from first hand experience that if his houses are Mortgaged it is quite likely that he is actually making very little profit out of them, and just because he owns a pub does not mean that he is raking it in. Have you examined his accounts? Do you know details of his balance sheet? There is absolutely nothing wrong with him ploughing his money back into his business interests & if he is using profits to buy more property the tax man will still be collecting tax on those "profits" because capital investments are not a tax deductable expense. It is very easy to look from the outside and make a judgement - all the more easy if you don't think it neccessary to have any actual facts to base your assumption on.
 
Or is it jsut that all the women with kids out there trying to get a job cant, because everybody thinks along the same lones as Luckyoldme, and refuses to employ them... just incase they have a baby and require maternity leave :rolleyes:
i think you havent actually read my posts. i wasn t saying i wouldn t employ women. i was talking about my experiences trying to get work as a truck driver. I said irrespective of wether it was right or wrong i could understand an employees concerns and how i influenced the outcome of an interview by telling the owner i couldnt have children. I would never dicriminate against age or sex.. i merely want to find the right person for my workplace
 
i think you havent actually read my posts. i wasn t saying i wouldn t employ women. i was talking about my experiences trying to get work as a truck driver. I said irrespective of wether it was right or wrong i could understand an employees concerns and how i influenced the outcome of an interview by telling the owner i couldnt have children. I would never dicriminate against age or sex.. i merely want to find the right person for my workplace

and according to you, that person will be someone that is not and will not be eligable for Working Tax Credits, at all, ever. So either you'll be paying them a very decent wage so as to void their rights to claim it, or they will not have any dependant children/be in the position to have dependant children in the future...

I hope to employ my first employee next year. I will be seeking advice before doing so because quite frankly i would rather employ someone who isnt getting masses of cash or fantastic working family tax credit. Some weeks in a small business you just can t take a wage.. imagine struggling to pay someones wages when they were getting masses of cash and fantastic wftc... and then trotting off home after their alotted 16 hours?


Hey pearl is this so ? Is everyone on wftc?
From what i see on here and at home most of them are dreading their youngest becoming 18.
I can t claim it because i have no dependants.
My ideal employee would be someone in my age group with a good work ethic.. or in interview speak someone more mature and experienced. :-)
My pay rate will be slightly above the local going rate so candidates can take it or leave it. Either way I wont be employing anyone on wftc. I know many businesses locally and further affield who operate the same policy. We have to work long hours to keep our businesses going.. why should we employ folk who want to work 16 hours and then go home to play with their ponies... all funded by the government?
 
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Or is it jsut that all the women with kids out there trying to get a job cant, because everybody thinks along the same lines as Luckyoldme, and refuses to employ them... just incase they have a baby and require maternity leave :rolleyes:

Before I went back to Uni, I worked for a mobile cleaning company, I was a supervisor and did all the interviews myself for new staff on the contracts.

The amount of times the applicants called me up after I had said yes, you have the job to say 'Sorry, it's just not worth my while, I'll lose too much benefit' was bloody sickening.

Some demanded they just couldn't do more than 16 hours, yet the job was 20 hours...and expected me to go haggle with the client to see if we could drop it to 16 hours just to suit them and their payments out of the tax I paid from my hard-earned wages?

No, I don't think so.....

Wasn't there a leading politician recently who actually said on TV that yes, it's better to stay on benefits than go into full-time employment. I forget who it was....

The root of the problem is higly complex, and is going to take a lot of sorting out to fix, but there are plans afoot to get it sorted. And not before time either....
 
I quite agree with all of that Draglon Slayer, please don't think I feel otherwise...
However, somewhere, an employer such as Luckyoldme is interviewing applicants, and turning those away who are desperately trying to get OFF benefits and into regular work... simply because they may be eligable for working tax credits. Hardly fair, is it?
 
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and according to you, that person will be someone that is not and will not be eligable for Working Tax Credits, at all, ever. So either you'll be paying them a very decent wage so as to void their rights to claim it, or they will not have any dependant children/be in the position to have dependant children in the future...

No that wasnt the issue... show me where i said i would not employ women in case they had children. Its my business and whoever i work with will have to be someone who i get on with. Im sorry but thats not someone who is there for a few hours so that the can claim wftc. Its my money and my business I want to put my trust in someone who wants to work. Im willing to put the person through their test but i really want someone commited. Of all the examples displayed at home and on here the job is allways just a stepping stone to the wftc. I want someone who cares about providing a service to my hard working customers.
 
No that wasnt the issue... show me where i said i would not employ women in case they had children. Its my business and whoever i work with will have to be someone who i get on with. Im sorry but thats not someone who is there for a few hours so that the can claim wftc. Its my money and my business I want to put my trust in someone who wants to work. Im willing to put the person through their test but i really want someone commited. Of all the examples displayed at home and on here the job is allways just a stepping stone to the wftc. I want someone who cares about providing a service to my hard working customers.

I have showed you where you said you will not employ someone that is elegiable for working tax credits... and to be eligable for working tax credits, they will have dependant children. As already stated, unless you are paying them a larger wage... they are quite likely to be eligable for WTC if they have children.

Just incase you missed it, here it is agian:
Either way I wont be employing anyone on wftc.

I agree with Dragon Slayer, when she says that the whole system needs an overhaul... however I see WORKING tax credits, as an insentive from the government for those on benefits to get off their arses and go to work if they are able to do so.
People like you refusing to employ them isn't exactly having the desired effect, is it...
 
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I have showed you where you said you will not employ someone that is elegiable for working tax credits... and to be eligable for working tax credits, they will have dependant children. As already stated, unless you are paying them a larger wage... they are quite likely to be eligable for WTC if they have children.
thats codwallop you accused me of discriminating agains women of a childbearing age... not so and i suppose if someone came along that was commited to my business that would put the hours in then fair enough but of the four examples i have quoted here i dont see anything to inspire me. I have to go now i have wasted time on this and my cat is due at the vets.
 
thats codwallop you accused me of discriminating agains women of a childbearing age... not so and i suppose if someone came along that was commited to my business that would put the hours in then fair enough but of the four examples i have quoted here i dont see anything to inspire me. I have to go now i have wasted time on this and my cat is due at the vets.

I haven't accused you of anything. Good luck at the vets, I hope your cat is well.
 
thats codwallop you accused me of discriminating agains women of a childbearing age... not so and i suppose if someone came along that was commited to my business that would put the hours in then fair enough but of the four examples i have quoted here i dont see anything to inspire me. I have to go now i have wasted time on this and my cat is due at the vets.

That last sentence made me laugh so much - I have found that people take FAR more time off to deal with their sick animals than with their sick children!

As far as tax credits are concerned, there is a sliding scale, so the more you earn, the less you get until you are over the threshold.

It IS tough being a small business and employing someone who then goes on maternity leave - but the main problem is the inconvenience of having to employ someone else (with the associated costs to agencies, adverts etc), time to show them what to do and actually finding someone who is happy to lose the job when/if the person on maternity leave comes back.

BUT it is absolutely outrageous for some of you to say that people who claim child tax credits should be burnt at the stake (or whatever it was you are saying). Clearly the government (who has done the appropriate workings out) think it is required, so who the hell are you to decide that it is not. Of COURSE there are some people who are falsely claiming. Shoot them, not the ones who are simply claiming what the government believes is appropriate.
 
there will always be someone jealous of someone else and what they have and accusing them of flouting the system, when my OH went bankrupt i had people accusing me of hiding the horses from the receivers etc how they were going to drop me in it blah blah, fact is the horses are mine and I'm not a bankrupt:p didn't stop people judging and assuming that i must somehow be claiming something i shouldn't to be able to keep them.:rolleyes:
And funny how employed people don't see that the extra 10 mins they add to their lunch, the extra fag break, the sick day they take to go shopping and other little 'perks' at their companies expense is no different to someone exploiting the benefit system or a self employed person using the loopholes in the tax system;)
 
I know people similar
one family with 6 kids and 3 horses! Council house. Have a car
another lady with several horses up the yard that doesn't work.
Its madness

Yep ! I knew a family like this when I was in still in England. Although there were 3 kids, they had a council house, 2 cars and 1 showjumper (the mums) and a jumping pony (the daughters). They lived around the corner and at the time, I couldn't afford a horse and was just so jealous. It was worse when I found them at the same yard a few years later!! both horses on full livery and they didn't work.
 
I know a family like this, none work, complete and utter scumbag skivers. They live hand to mouth & in complete squalor, but due to Motability have a lovely brand new 4x4. They have 3 horses, mum had a nice carribean holiday in the Summer. They seem to partly fund this lifestyle by never paying their bills, although they have drug habits and active social lives. They must live with masses of stress though as they are loathed and despised and are constantly being moved off yards etc.
 
It happens because we live in a society of do gooders who scream human rights every time anyone tries to do anything about it.

^^^^ THIS^^^^

Hit the nail on the head. I wont start beacuse my post would turn into an essay!


But I work 2 jobs 5 days a week 3-4 evenings a week. I admit I dont live at home (I share with a friend) I have 1 horse on part livery, I have a basic 15 year old car (good thing she is) and a lizzard (but to be fair costs me sod all) and I am scrimping and scaving. Last year I bought myself 2 new dresses (sale items) I pair of jeans and a jumper lol

I struggle where others seems to fly by life all on our money

Mu uncle was made redundant aged 50 and had worked since the day he left school at the age of 15. My auntie was working part time only and couldnt afford bills alone so against what he believed in whilst he searched for another job he signed on to help a little. He got £50 a week and after 2 weeks was told he wasnt intitled to them any more beacuse my auntie worked.

yes part time and he had paid his stamps for 35 years and was intitiled!!! rediculous
 
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