Can XC time mistakes be made?

[Michen]

I had such a weird experience today at Calmsden. It was a championship course but at 80, 6 min 27 optimum time. About half way around the course I nearly pulled Boggle up because he just didn’t feel his usual quick self. I wouldn’t go as far as to say laboured but just not normal for him. Sort of steady and lollopy. I carried on carefully as he was still jumping well and when I finished and saw 15 time faults which was a little surprising (I thought we’d be over the optimum time a bit but maybe not that much). It fuelled my concern for him further!

Yet it transpires they were too fast faults. Nearly a minute. I queried it but they said the TA had checked as they too were surprised and it all checks out.

I am a little stumped as I’ve done enough rounds on Bog at 80 to know his usual speed and when he gets too fast time faults at a level he finds super easy it’s never a surprise. But this genuinely felt like the slowest round I’ve ever had on him. And we’ve done many a round!

It cost us second place which is a shame but I’m just curious as to whether a mistake could actually have be made? Not that it makes any difference now! Having fence judged myself I don’t see quite how given every judge records a time unless something went wrong at the start?

Really odd, but Bog thinks he won anyway ?

 

[Lexi_]

How odd!

From my experience of FJ-ing, the times at fences are only ever referred to if you’re stopping horses on courses, or if you’re at the first/last fence and something goes wrong with the start/timing. I’ve had Control occasionally checking in on penalties given to horse X, but never about time queries, so I’d guess the TA just checked with the start team about your timing?

Not sure if you could ask them to check with the first and last fence score pads about what times they had for you, in case there were any gremlins in the system? It should all be running on the same event time though… maybe he was just deceptively fast today?!

 

[DabDab]

They can be made yes. But there are two or three records of each person's start and finish time (digital and one or two written) so it is unlikely, particularly if your time was specifically reviewed on the day.

You couldn't have missed a fence could you? and it went unnoticed by fence judges...

 

[Red-1]

Could it be that he was simply galloping within his stride and taking the fences out of that stride? 80 time is generous and you have been doing bigger and faster. I wonder if he has simply developed his technique.

I would ask if they could check the times on course to set your mind at rest, first and last fence. They may have simply checked the timer's writing!

I would imagine you would have to put some £ down for that though, as an objection. If it was today, you may still be on time. I believe you get the £ back if you are correct (but may be wrong).

 

[HappyHollyDays]

I’m not there today but often FJ for the organisers and I don’t know how they can have checked because we don’t hand our score sheets in with each individual riders times until the end of the day. Without them if the starter has made an error unless they have asked every single fence judge over the radio for your timings it would be impossible to tell.

 

[ycbm]

Yes, I was mistimed at Sansaw one year, but it was because of a very, very long hold as the guy in front of me by one fence was shovelled into an ambulance. Not what you want to watch when you've got to restart ofter 40 minutes with 200 metres to a step bounce to bloody great hedge with a drop into a garden!

I went up from 26th to 5th, as I recall.


ETA the horse had been clocking penalties for too fast at other events, I knew he couldn't possibly have been that slow.
.

 

[ihatework]

6.27 OT for an 80cm??? That’s a long course at that level!

Calmsden f-ed up measuring/timing in a BE a few years back - lots of horses were getting speeding penalties, they had mis measured but then refused to adjust the times.

It’s most likely at 80cm speed he was just jumping out of his rhythm, but if lots of the class were getting faults it could be a measuring issue

 

[Michen]

He was jumping out of his stride but he always does, the bits in between were where I got a bit worried. Worried enough to almost pull up. He just felt not himself speed wise. And to be that much under we’d have had to have been going seriously fast around a really long and very hilly course (they added a bit I’ve never seen used and it was probably the biggest hill I’ve ever ridden on an xc- both up and down!) I’ve had rounds like that on Bog and got max 8 time faults for being quick- this was just not that! I really think they should have been too slow if anything. My first thought pulling up was to think about getting bloods run!

It was a championship course hence the length.

I went and checked all the fences on the course map and definitely jumped them all.

I didn’t put a formal objection in or anything as tbh didn’t care enough about the result or think it would be changed, just wanted a nice run for us both. They themselves had made a note to check the time even before I went to them because it seemed so unlikely.

I really am convinced they got it wrong but just can’t see how they could have!

 

[Michen]

I’m not there today but often FJ for the organisers and I don’t know how they can have checked because we don’t hand our score sheets in with each individual riders times until the end of the day. Without them if the starter has made an error unless they have asked every single fence judge over the radio for your timings it would be impossible to tell.

They said they checked a couple of the times directly with enough of the fence judges..

 

[AmyMay]

Do you wear a watch to time your run?

 

[HappyHollyDays]

They said they checked a couple of the times directly with enough of the fence judges..

Fair enough but a minute suggests an error somewhere.

 

[Michen]

Do you wear a watch to time your run?

Sort of but I didn’t quite manage to errrr press start correctly although I did think I’d kinda worked it out from when I fumbled around and had myself at about 6.20 but can’t be sure. I don’t usually use them tbh as just like to ride as I feel if that makes sense.

They said it doesn’t matter what my watch said anyway.

 

[Michen]

Fair enough but a minute suggests an error somewhere.

Yeah I agree. It’s just too much across such a long hilly course on a horse I felt was operating at less than his norm. Probably why his dressage was so good!

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Just changing the subject slightly, on the xc results, what does it mean when it says for example 10.6 in 5.34? I'm assuming the 5.34 is the time it took the competitor to complete the course. Does the in bit mean they were inside the time?

 

[Michen]

Just changing the subject slightly, on the xc results, what does it mean when it says for example 10.6 in 5.34? I'm assuming the 5.34 is the time it took the competitor to complete the course. Does the in bit mean they were inside the time?

No usually that 10.6 would mean time penalties. Usually too slow but if too fast they tend to highlight in some way.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

No usually that 10.6 would mean time penalties. Usually too slow but if too fast they tend to highlight in some way.

Thank you!! And really well done today.

 

[Goldenstar]

That’s really sounds extremely odd , where many people getting going too fast penalties .
I would have to say that with the fence judges recording times it’s extremely hard to see where it can go wrong now a days .

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Was the round fully videoed? Could perhaps time it yourself off that?

 

[teapot]

Having had a quick google, they'd be saying you'd have been almost half a minute too fast over the PN course time too (same course distance) so more than likely to be a mistake surely?

Is time keeping as accurate unaffiliated as it is at BE? (that's not a dig, just a genuine question)

 

[lannerch]

Yes my friend was given an incorrect time at Sansaw , he was wearing a watch and knew exactly what his time was , 4s under the optimum which was also confirmed by the commentator, but he was given I think over 10 time penalties, costing him second place . We queried them and only some were taken off , we went back and queried and the second time all were taken off and they apologised.

 

[LEC]

You have been training at 90/100 speed so probably felt slow but reality is you are just smoother in your fences and could keep coming as felt easy etc.
I suspect measuring the course they would be generous as well due to the length and the hill. Even Bicton 3 day at 90/100 isn’t that long (1 min less nearly) and there is no way people would have their horses fit enough.