Can you change a vets mind ?

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toomanyhorses26

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My tb had his mri and was found to have various things not right withhis front feet so having seen some posts on here regarding Rockley - spoke to Nic who felt she could help. My insurance company have been fab and agreed in principal on the basis of a vet referral but my vet won't refer at this point :( They want him to have remedial shoeing for at least 6 months before contemplating referring. He has had graduated pads put on about 2 weeks ago and he just looks odd in them like he can't take as bigger stride as he used to be able to and just looks stilted in them. Im in the process of moving him to a more suitable diet - alfa a molasses free,fast fibre,high fibre cubes,linseed and have pro hoof ordered (any other additions I need to make or take away? ) I don't know whether to go to the head vet and try and get a referral sooner,suck it up and go with what they say or take his shoes off and go it alone as such.
 
I wouldn't go down the remedial route. My vet tried getting me to do it and I am so glad I didn't! I agree that they are thinking of the £££ and not the horse.

Go to the head vet and explain your predicament, and if they wont help then I would move vets if thats possible!

Would you mind me asking what is wrong with the horses front feet?
 
Not without them seeing proof of what you want to achieve. and you still have to pay for them to come and see it. I'd change vets or speak to your insurance company as some of them are quite experienced in barefoot rehab referrals now. Good luck.
 
I haven't got the report in front of me but off the top of my head - ddft damage,impar ligament damage,navicular changes and bone bruising in one fore.
 
If you are unhappy with the current treatment, then ask again for a referral.

I don't think the vet is just trying to get money out of you by going for 'remedial' shoes.
It's the way they are taught (to trust shoes) and they're not likely to change their minds and stake their professional reputation on the opinion of some hippys on the internet.

I truly believe in growing a healthy foot, rather than patching an unhealthy one and I believe in barefoot - but I can't pretend there is good quality research to support my beliefs.

You need to find a vet who is open to listening to you and Nic and allow you to seek a treatment that you are happy with.
 
I am with Oberon on this my gut screams at me that in almost all cases of this type shoes are part of the problem not the solution , I don't know if you can change your vets mind , they are trained this way they believe it's the best way to try to help horses with these issues , I don't I am lucky I don't insure my horses so can take desisions myself.
 
and this is why I don't insure my horses, the awful position you are in is just unaccaptable to me, its like its not your horse to make decisions with anymore - I can't abide it, so I just put money in a savings fund for any veterinary fees, then I tell the vet what i want, not the other way round.

Like other posters above, remedial shoeing is best avoided in nearly every case, it crushes the caudal aspect of the foot, although it might exhibit temporary relief from pain it doesn't repair anything, quite the reverse.
 
Andalucian said:
and this is why I don't insure my horses, the awful position you are in is just unaccaptable to me, its like its not your horse to make decisions with anymore - I can't abide it, so I just put money in a savings fund for any veterinary fees, then I tell the vet what i want, not the other way round.

Like other posters above, remedial shoeing is best avoided in nearly every case, it crushes the caudal aspect of the foot, although it might exhibit temporary relief from pain it doesn't repair anything, quite the reverse.
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this.
Your horse, your decision. If Rockley think they can help and vet won't refer then find another. I would advise senior vet of your unhappiness and advise you would like their co-operation to enable you to have your horse treated in the way you wish. If they feel unable to help advise them you will need to take another opinion. I am sure that Rockley, a trimmer or someone on Phoenix will be able to recomend a vet who is more enlightened.
 
If navicular is involved I can't understand why a vet would recommend keeping on any shoes as they make it virtually impossible to have the navicular at the proper angle and not weight bearing unnaturally - which may well be at the root of the issue but certainly prevents recovery.

I mean you can have opinions about some of the other things that are wrong and the best solutions but shoeing for navicular is nuts.....IMHO....:-)
 
Thanks for all the opinions - my heart just sunk when the initial plan was natural balance and see how it goes :( I do trust my farrier and he has agreed to support me in trying to get him into Rockley and also the after care as such. My insurance company have been fab - no question over whether it could happen but need this final referral - I have left a message with the practice that did his mri to see if they can help and hopefully I can make some progress with it all
 
My 14yr old TB x Welsh D has got front feet probs at the moment. He was shod in graduated pads with frog supports 6wks ago and has been going really well on a soft surface. His feet land nicely heel first and he hasn't lost any of his length of stride. However, I took him XC yesterday and the ground was on the firmer side to what I would prefer for him and he stopped twice with me - he has never stopped in his life so I'm starting to wonder if these shoes are the best thing for him. A lot of what I've read suggests it's just papering over the cracks and will cause more probs in the long term but it's difficult to go against the professionals and also I am a vet as well and we are taught to manage problems with shoes of some kind and so I feel I should give them a try as I really dont want to take him barefoot if possible - I dont have the facilities or time to rehab him properly and I want to event him if possible so need to be able to use studs although appreciate he wont be doing anything if I dont get this sorted. He hasn't had an MRI scan yet although that's looking like the next step.
 
I just want to do the best for him whether that be shoes,barefoot or gold plated nikes :) I will confess I have always shod but like you the more I read the more I feel that shoes may not be the answer for him. He has no frog supports I can see just a clear plastic graduated pad with his normal style shoes on. Sigh ginger ponies are def sent to try us
 
Star there is no law saying you have to do away with shoes forever.

Take them off.
Grow a healthy foot.
Shoe for the season (onto the new and healthy foot).
Then take shoes off for a break each year.
Simples.......

People make it so much more complicated and scary than it needs to be ;)
 
Frog "supports" are a nice idea in theory. However the hoof likes pressure AND release. Constant pressure just tends to crush the tissues rather than stimulating or "supporting" them. Same with wedges unfortunately. The theory just doesn't match the reality.
 
Oberon said:
Star there is no law saying you have to do away with shoes forever.

Take them off.
Grow a healthy foot.
Shoe for the season (onto the new and healthy foot).
Then take shoes off for a break each year.
Simples.......

People make it so much more complicated and scary than it needs to be ;)
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True but its the EVENTING season and I don't think Star will give that up, so it'll have to wait.
 
Currently being advised by vet and farrier to keep them on and that taking them off is a bad idea so that's what we're going with at the moment. There wont be any eventing unless we get some decent rain - not a chance I'll be running him on this ground. I'm not keeping him shod just so I can event - I'm just doing what I'm being advised by people who know more than me - it's quite difficult to go against that and there's so much info out there it's a minefield to know who to trust.
 
star said:
Currently being advised by vet and farrier to keep them on and that taking them off is a bad idea so that's what we're going with at the moment. There wont be any eventing unless we get some decent rain - not a chance I'll be running him on this ground. I'm not keeping him shod just so I can event - I'm just doing what I'm being advised by people who know more than me - it's quite difficult to go against that and there's so much info out there it's a minefield to know who to trust.
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It is very difficult when the professionals say you have The Horse who NEEDS the shoes :D.

I really don't envy you or the countless other horse owners who have been in this position.
 
Star, do yourself and Monty a favour and give Chris Tufnell from Coach House Vets a call. He has become incredibly positive about barefoot rehab for these injuries since Buddy went to Rockley, has anther there right now (intermediate eventer) and has 4 ready to go...

It's not for everyone but worth having a chat about. Plus shoeing has a 10% success rate (return to same work as before lameness) whereas barefoot rehab has an 85% success rate.

It's definitely not the norm but surely its worth a shot?
 
He went out tonight and got 71% at dressage. Last week he jumped clear in a 1m SJ class. Honestly I will investigate other routes if this one fails but at the moment I've started down this route so I'm going to give it a chance.
 
Thanks. I do appreciate the suggestions and have read your blog with interest but I feel I have to give one route a decent try before giving up and trying another.
 
star said:
My 14yr old TB x Welsh D has got front feet probs at the moment. He was shod in graduated pads with frog supports 6wks ago and has been going really well on a soft surface. His feet land nicely heel first and he hasn't lost any of his length of stride. .
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Send a PM to the farrier whose user name is Heelfirst and he will tell you about why heel first is a bad thing in shoes and especially in wedges.
 
cptrayes said:
Send a PM to the farrier whose user name is Heelfirst and he will tell you about why heel first is a bad thing in shoes and especially in wedges.
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Haven't heard this before - how come heel first is bad in shoes? I thought horses were supposed to land heel first and if they landed toe first, then there was something wrong. I only ask this because of a comment my vet made last year when I pointed out that my horse was wearing the toes of her shoes down dramatically and he said it was normal. I now know that her feet were not normal and, as a result, she is now retired and happily keeping youngsters company. I still wonder about his comment saying toe first was normal.
 
So how much is the 6 months remedial shoeing, regular vet checks, xrays etc going to cost and what will you be left with when/if you prise a referral from your medieval vet?

Rockley isn't a cheap option, I just hope your vet doesn't spend all the insurance money before you get a chance to send your horse there.
 
After having my mares shoes removed on Tuesday and seen a change in her that evening, trotted up the field all but sound. I know she is on Danilon one a day but she looked lame and was uncomfotable on that.

Yesterday I walked her up our lane, she was stride out better and even wanted to jog.

It is exactly 12 months since she had the MR scan and was diagnosed with Navicular. To start with she seemed fine in Eggbar shoes ,then she went down hill. She was treated again and she seemed not too bad. She was put into wedges and seemed a little better. We re xrayed her last year and she was found to have High Ring Bone. This too was treated.

It has taken me 12 months to take the plunge and take her barefoot. Unfortunately with all the treatment she has had we have run out of both time and money on the insurance.

I did talk to my vet about her going to Rockley Farm but he was not interested.I know now I should have been a little more forceful and said I wanted to take her down there.

If you find that your vet is not interested then get another opinion do not delay. Now I have my girl's shoes off I know I should have had it done months ago.
 
paulineh said:
Yesterday I walked her up our lane, she was stride out better and even wanted to jog.
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Caution for the first two weeks at least ;).

Even if she thinks she's OK and wants to go for it (remembering Arabs won't complain easily :o), newly out of shoes she won't have thick enough tissue to protect her coffin bone and we could risk bruising and sub solar abscessing.

Slow and steady wins this race :D.

paulineh said:
Now I have my girl's shoes off I know I should have had it done months ago.
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Do you get now why the 'Barefoot Taliban' bang on and on so much? :o
 
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