S_N
Well-Known Member
He's a TB, USA bred (it does make a difference IMO). I think his front end is remarkable!
Can you fault him?
- Thread starter S_N
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SSM
Well-Known Member
I am sorry but I think the front end looks like a body builders - sighs, you know you just need a nice CB stallion - although the one I lust after is in quarantine at Newmarket, bound for Austrailia
_jetset_
Well-Known Member
What a stunning looking animal...
seabiscuit
Well-Known Member
Justa tad short in the hindquarter ( across the loins) and the neck is slightly coming out of the wrong hole, second thigh is a bit weak. Otherwise rather nice? Strong Northern Dancer blood?
MillionDollar
Well-Known Member
WOW!
Tempi
Well-Known Member
Personally i dont like him, and his front end is way too over muscled, makes him look funny
AmyMay
Situation normal
Stunning photo - looks like two different horses front and back though.......
reynold
Well-Known Member
front half looks like he's been on steroids !!
possibly developed front end leads to less 2nd thigh - which I also noticed
I'd wonder if he actually moved completely straight in the flesh.
possibly developed front end leads to less 2nd thigh - which I also noticed
I'd wonder if he actually moved completely straight in the flesh.
JANANI
Well-Known Member
Sorry meant to say that I didn't like his kneck.
henryhorn
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't rave about him but he's a racehorse isn't he? I think his back end is very good, especially his bum and legs, but the way his forelegs seem set quite far back doesn't thrill me. Somehow I tend to feel his action might be compromised on extension, and his front lower limbs seem a little slight for that massive body.
At a guess you will now tell us he is the best racehorse going! Sorry I think he's ok but not the best I've ever seen..
At a guess you will now tell us he is the best racehorse going! Sorry I think he's ok but not the best I've ever seen..
Tia
Well-Known Member
Looks like a Northern Dancer descendant; similarly put together horse.
S_N
Well-Known Member
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At a guess you will now tell us he is the best racehorse going! Sorry I think he's ok but not the best I've ever seen..
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LOL Sue!
This is his pedigree http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/artax Only one bit of ND in there - 4 gens back.
He used to stand at Taylor Made Farm, where I used to work in KY. I used to be able to see him from my office window and I'd regularly take him carrots - such a sweet natured horse!! He won the Breeders' Cup Sprint in 1999, was the 1999 Eclipse Champion Sprinter. He broke and/or equalled 3 sprint records!! His front end is/was widely regarded to be near to perfection! I foaled his mother down in 2002 - here she is with her Saint Ballado filly.
Some more info on him. http://www.horsehats.com/artax.html
At a guess you will now tell us he is the best racehorse going! Sorry I think he's ok but not the best I've ever seen..
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LOL Sue!
This is his pedigree http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/artax Only one bit of ND in there - 4 gens back.
He used to stand at Taylor Made Farm, where I used to work in KY. I used to be able to see him from my office window and I'd regularly take him carrots - such a sweet natured horse!! He won the Breeders' Cup Sprint in 1999, was the 1999 Eclipse Champion Sprinter. He broke and/or equalled 3 sprint records!! His front end is/was widely regarded to be near to perfection! I foaled his mother down in 2002 - here she is with her Saint Ballado filly.
Some more info on him. http://www.horsehats.com/artax.html
MillionDollar
Well-Known Member
I have to agree that I also think his front end is spot on! I really don't see what's wrong with it
Tia
Well-Known Member
I like him too, but then maybe that is because I am used to seeing super-duperly muscled horses.
S_N
Well-Known Member
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Justa tad short in the hindquarter ( across the loins) and the neck is slightly coming out of the wrong hole, second thigh is a bit weak. Otherwise rather nice? Strong Northern Dancer blood?
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Big shoulder and good quarters, short back/loins, with a good length to his underside - that's how they like them over there! Agree about his 2nd thigh though - but I think he'd been out of training a while in this pic, not sure.....
Justa tad short in the hindquarter ( across the loins) and the neck is slightly coming out of the wrong hole, second thigh is a bit weak. Otherwise rather nice? Strong Northern Dancer blood?
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Big shoulder and good quarters, short back/loins, with a good length to his underside - that's how they like them over there! Agree about his 2nd thigh though - but I think he'd been out of training a while in this pic, not sure.....
S_N
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I like him too, but then maybe that is because I am used to seeing super-duperly muscled horses.
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LOL - tis kinda why I made a point about him being USA bred tbh. I know a lot of USA bred horses race over here, but they are generally of a different type..... Which is what the Brits in general is more used to seeing in a TB - something more like this
though he is also a BC Champion and never raced anywhere othere than the US.
I like him too, but then maybe that is because I am used to seeing super-duperly muscled horses.
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LOL - tis kinda why I made a point about him being USA bred tbh. I know a lot of USA bred horses race over here, but they are generally of a different type..... Which is what the Brits in general is more used to seeing in a TB - something more like this
though he is also a BC Champion and never raced anywhere othere than the US.
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
Not keen on the pasterns but what a stunning boy...who is he?
alleycat
Well-Known Member
Really interesting post. Why the difference?
Oddly, I instantly liked the second horse more at first glance, then when I thought about it ..... I didn't. So familiarity is part of it. ( Though I personally struggle to assess greys objectively; they all remind me of my own old mare...).
On the first horse- what is the purpose of the big, powerful shoulder when the engine is behind? My present mares' sire / grandsire had a huge, laid back shoulder (not a sprinter- decent, but not top class, mile & a half handicapper?)Crested Lark. Does it raise as well as lengthen the action so the horse is progressing in bounds? Any video links of this horse in action?
The horse has that sort of shelf or hollowness below the withers and above the shoulder, so his withers stand out and he seems hollow backed- though he's not hollow backed. (There was an event sire- can't remember who- like this- I didn't quite like & didn't use; I was WRONG). Can't quite describe what I'm seeing here, but I think its something to do with the extreme withers and its this that has also made people criticise his neck. He has that prominent breast, like Nijinsky's line; with such a long good shoulder this looks OK to me. The length & angle from shoulder to elbow will affect the action a lot, won't it? So he'll have a long low action? (Hardly likely to have anything else, mind).
His croup is sloping, which makes it look shorter than it is; and I suspect he's a bit cat-hammed, though its hard to tell in a posed photo. I think he does have more quality than 2nd horse, which has shorter shoulder and long cannons, though nice hindquarter. I rather like him. I wouldn't sniff if someone offered me a nomination.......(in my dreams...)
Oddly, I instantly liked the second horse more at first glance, then when I thought about it ..... I didn't. So familiarity is part of it. ( Though I personally struggle to assess greys objectively; they all remind me of my own old mare...).
On the first horse- what is the purpose of the big, powerful shoulder when the engine is behind? My present mares' sire / grandsire had a huge, laid back shoulder (not a sprinter- decent, but not top class, mile & a half handicapper?)Crested Lark. Does it raise as well as lengthen the action so the horse is progressing in bounds? Any video links of this horse in action?
The horse has that sort of shelf or hollowness below the withers and above the shoulder, so his withers stand out and he seems hollow backed- though he's not hollow backed. (There was an event sire- can't remember who- like this- I didn't quite like & didn't use; I was WRONG). Can't quite describe what I'm seeing here, but I think its something to do with the extreme withers and its this that has also made people criticise his neck. He has that prominent breast, like Nijinsky's line; with such a long good shoulder this looks OK to me. The length & angle from shoulder to elbow will affect the action a lot, won't it? So he'll have a long low action? (Hardly likely to have anything else, mind).
His croup is sloping, which makes it look shorter than it is; and I suspect he's a bit cat-hammed, though its hard to tell in a posed photo. I think he does have more quality than 2nd horse, which has shorter shoulder and long cannons, though nice hindquarter. I rather like him. I wouldn't sniff if someone offered me a nomination.......(in my dreams...)
Tia
Well-Known Member
This was the only photo I could find of him racing.
S_N
Well-Known Member
mitchellk
Well-Known Member
That is def an eat my dust picture!!!!lol
Shark
Active Member
Conformation for racing versus competition is normally a bit different plus his muscle development is for racing!
On a more general point, I think a forum is the wrong place to ask this sort of question as it shows not everyone knows what good conformation is and how to judge it, they are also just looking at a photo when all stallions look different in the flesh. Overall, I find these discussions on stallion conformation can be a cause of concern for those standing at stud being judged by anyone who chooses to log on no matter what there experience, now I know this is a forum and some feel this is fun but if you are damaging a stallion's reputation you could find yourself in legal strife
On a more general point, I think a forum is the wrong place to ask this sort of question as it shows not everyone knows what good conformation is and how to judge it, they are also just looking at a photo when all stallions look different in the flesh. Overall, I find these discussions on stallion conformation can be a cause of concern for those standing at stud being judged by anyone who chooses to log on no matter what there experience, now I know this is a forum and some feel this is fun but if you are damaging a stallion's reputation you could find yourself in legal strife
alleycat
Well-Known Member
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On a more general point, I think a forum is the wrong place to ask this sort of question as it shows not everyone knows what good conformation is
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Thats the whole point of a forum. You swap views and learn.
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Overall, I find these discussions on stallion conformation can be a cause of concern for those standing at stud being judged by anyone who chooses to log on no matter what there experience
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But that is exactly how stallions will be judged in the wider marketplace, by any mare owner who wishes to breed their mare. A place like this is ideal for finding out what you should be looking for, and learning about other people's views across a whole range of disciplines. My mares are racing bred yet I want to use one of them to breed a sports horse- and see? you have already given me useful advice in pointing out the differences between racing and competition horses, and advising me not to judge soley from photographs!
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now I know this is a forum and some feel this is fun but if you are damaging a stallion's reputation you could find yourself in legal strife
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This can be a danger if you allow malice to creep into the discussion; but criticism on the forum is private opinion and is open to discussion and question. If the stallion's reputation suffers as a result, it was probably inflated in the first place; a danger when stallions are not just shown in their best light, but surprisingly often misrepresented in their stud advertisments. I would say that honest comment is not grounds for legal action.
In any case, the horse in question here is hardly likely to be harmed by our opinions: he's seen as a benchmark of his breed
. That was why he was chosen for discussion in the first place.
On a more general point, I think a forum is the wrong place to ask this sort of question as it shows not everyone knows what good conformation is
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats the whole point of a forum. You swap views and learn.
[ QUOTE ]
Overall, I find these discussions on stallion conformation can be a cause of concern for those standing at stud being judged by anyone who chooses to log on no matter what there experience
[/ QUOTE ]
But that is exactly how stallions will be judged in the wider marketplace, by any mare owner who wishes to breed their mare. A place like this is ideal for finding out what you should be looking for, and learning about other people's views across a whole range of disciplines. My mares are racing bred yet I want to use one of them to breed a sports horse- and see? you have already given me useful advice in pointing out the differences between racing and competition horses, and advising me not to judge soley from photographs!
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
now I know this is a forum and some feel this is fun but if you are damaging a stallion's reputation you could find yourself in legal strife
[/ QUOTE ]
This can be a danger if you allow malice to creep into the discussion; but criticism on the forum is private opinion and is open to discussion and question. If the stallion's reputation suffers as a result, it was probably inflated in the first place; a danger when stallions are not just shown in their best light, but surprisingly often misrepresented in their stud advertisments. I would say that honest comment is not grounds for legal action.
In any case, the horse in question here is hardly likely to be harmed by our opinions: he's seen as a benchmark of his breed