Can you help me with my bit?

RubyFrench

RubyFrench

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Hi all,

I've had my loan horse for 4 weeks now and i love him to pieces, i just wanted some info on his bit. I had to look it up in derby house catalogue as i didn't know what it was, turns out it's a waterford snaffle.

So my horse is pretty lazy, and hard to get going but can be strong when cantering (i haven't jumped him yet so don't know what he will be like). But he has taken to trying to nap, so we spend what feels like 20 minutes spinning around, and jogging back and forth before he realises i'm not giving in and he will walk on!

He also has a tendancy to walk in the hedgerows rather than the dirt track/road surface.

Do you think this is a good bit to use? I have also seen the D-ring waterford which says it helps with steering, and the hanging cheek version but do not know if i need poll pressure?

Also if it helps he is ridden in a plain cavesson nose band, and martingale.

Thanks in advance for replies!
 
The waterford is a strong bit, but does have an advantage in that it doesn't give any poll pressure. If you are gonig back to schooling, then you can step down a bit to a softer bit for work, but I would stick with this when hacking if you find him strong. I don't know if you were thinking about it, but you can't compete in a dressage comp with this bit either. I ride my mare in it as she can be strong, but also wanted something with no poll pressure that wasn't fixed.
 
Luci07 said:
The waterford is a strong bit, but does have an advantage in that it doesn't give any poll pressure. If you are gonig back to schooling, then you can step down a bit to a softer bit for work, but I would stick with this when hacking if you find him strong. I don't know if you were thinking about it, but you can't compete in a dressage comp with this bit either. I ride my mare in it as she can be strong, but also wanted something with no poll pressure that wasn't fixed.
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a waterford snaffle is the KINDEST of all the jointed snaffles as it does not have any nutcracker or even double jointed action so it is lovely and soft in the mouth.
i used this for a few years for backing and initial schooling of my big 18.2hh MW CBxTB. i only changed it to a French Link and he is still only on that 15yrs later.
i personally keep to the kindest bit possible (rubber straight bar, waterford, french link) - all kinder than a 'normal' snaffle. i have my strong ex-racer TB youngster in a hanging cheek french link to provide poll pressure than mouth control but at least the french link is kinder than a single joint. the hanging cheek also partially helps with control but is not as effective as a full cheek.
D-ring / eggbut gives a more stabilised control of ring-rein rather than a loose ring which is free moving.
it really all depends on what the horse is like and what your aims are.
as for gadgets, i would keep it as simple as possible. change to a flash if the horse is trying to evade the bit (or even a drop noseband), martingale only if horse regularly keeps trying to hold a high head carriage. less is more.

re feet: im in the process of getting my TB barefoot and by big horse is also bare but they work the same process of verges and grass rather than stone or concrete as they find it too tender and sore to walk on. is yours shod? id check the soles and frogs for any damage, pain and possible problems. get your farrier to do a tenderness/pain check on the hoofs using their special tool.

re napping: he is new, he is testing you out. he knows the route which ways you walk and will see what he can get away with and you must never give in - even if it takes an hour. i have walked backwards up the lane just to prove to my guy he will NOT succeed and i have heard of a top rider who completed nearly the whole hack backwards lol. if i want to keep going past a junction that would take us home, i do pony style shouting, ggggrrrrr ing, very forward riding (body and seat driving forwards) and occasional leg flapping all at the same time! great energy burner and amusing to watch and listen to but its determined and you must win. i very very rarely ever needed to smack with the whip and this is on my big almost 1 ton horse. you may feel comfortable haveing a lead out but again the horse can become dependent on this and defeats the object. i always ride out alone then meet people on different parts of the route so he can never use the companion or the lead not being there as an excuse :)

how old, breed, height and use/work is he doing?
 
i was given a waterford to try many years ago on my (then young) p.b.a. At the time she had been used to a straight bar loose ring happy mouth, and tried using a normal egbutt with no success...

she did not like the waterford- but i think that was sue to being used to an unjointed rubber bit, and since then has always been ridden in a mullen-mouth pellham (by happymouth) she turned from a stargazing, bolting no control or steering psycho (snaffle, flash noseband and martingale) to a controlable, supple and responsive joy to ride! (caveson noseband, no martingale) i mainly ride using roundings, but switch to double reins for shows/jumping.

vicki. x

edit to add: the pellham uses a curb chain, and poll pressure: which i needed with whisper to bring her head down and encourage her to come round. it can be a very harsh bit if used incorrectly! saying that if used properly with double reins it can be used as a snaffle (top rein) with the curb rein only used if and when needed if the horse becomes strong etc.
 
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thanks for the replies really good info :)

update: i completed my second hack in a row today with NO NAPPING :) he is definitely coming around to me nicely now, running to me in the field etc :)

basically i am now thinking i want to change from the waterford... i accidentally scratched his gum with my nail with trying to open his mouth the other day (felt mega guilty) but while i was inspecting his mouth i noticed his tongue is bulging out of his teeth so am thinking this bit might be too thick for him!

what i need really is brakes/slight steering aid, he is very ploddy 80% of the time and don't think there is much need for this bit!! like i said he is only strong when i want him to trot but he wants to canter through the woods and i don't want to!!!

ideas? :)

p.s. he is 12 years old, 16hh hanoverianxcob, we only do hacking 4-5 times a week for an hour at a time.
 
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brill news on the napping :) he is learning lol. lucky you with him running to you, NONE of mine do that!! lol :(

Ok, he defo needs a thinner bit for his tongue, as Waterfords are usually all chunky and rounded to be so soft.
I would personally try either a DROP CHEEK FRENCH LINK (adds pressure to the poll, still mild but more assistance than Waterford, cheeks add some steering), OR I for even more steering help I would go for a FULL-CHEEK FULMER FRENCH LINK.
Make sure you dont get a Dr Bristol - looks very similar plate and joints to French Link but it is much more severe due to the angle of the plate!!.

I was actually looking at new bits for my TB today and seen a F-C Fulmer with a rotating copper peanut in the middle - this has the double joint for mildness in the middle, the copper rotating peanut gives something to play with and extra salivating. didnt have any in stock so cant comment on this yet.

If the French Links dont work, then you can always go to a fatty single joint snaffle or play around with the others on the market. It may just be trial and error until he finds something he likes and you do too.

Good luck - let us know how you get on.
 
jm2k i was hoping you would reply!

and i think i will try the drop cheek french link first, i keep eyeing them up, i also think they look quite pretty hehe! and the copper peanut sounds interesting! let me know if you try one!

thanks!!

also, i have read the waterford bit should be 1/2" bigger than a normal bit? it doesn't look particularly big/long in his mouth? but measures 6" so shall i go for 5.5"?
 
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no prob, its a real minefield with these damn bits lol.

have you measured his mouth?
i find easiest way is to use a wooden spoon handle (nice,slim and smooth lol) and then you can hold each side of the lips easily and also the mouth should show a damp mark on the wood ;)

the peanut bit was in Robinsons and only £17.99 so i was quite surprised. will defo let you know how we go with it next week.
just started using boots on him for the first time yesterday - will be interesting to see how we get on with this too!!

http://www.robinsonsequestrian.com/saddles-tack/briddlework/bits.html?productsPerPage=all
for just a few but couldnt see a drop cheek on Robinsons only Derby House:
http://www.derbyhouse.co.uk/Equestr...s/Jp+Korsteel+Half+Cheek+Snaffle_314-0006.htm

Im going to be agent for Derby house so if need one,let me know. maybe cheaper on Ebay but this one is Korsteel.
 
fabola.Faye said:
thanks for the replies really good info :)

update: i completed my second hack in a row today with NO NAPPING :) he is definitely coming around to me nicely now, running to me in the field etc :)

basically i am now thinking i want to change from the waterford... i accidentally scratched his gum with my nail with trying to open his mouth the other day (felt mega guilty) but while i was inspecting his mouth i noticed his tongue is bulging out of his teeth so am thinking this bit might be too thick for him!

what i need really is brakes/slight steering aid, he is very ploddy 80% of the time and don't think there is much need for this bit!! like i said he is only strong when i want him to trot but he wants to canter through the woods and i don't want to!!!


I'd recommend Neue Schule bits, I swapped from my mullen mouth pelham with a slight raised port to a tranz angled lozenge pelham with a 21mm mouthpiece as my horse has a thick tongue. Its worked wonders especially with my jumping and i am very pleased with it.

If you want something to help with steering then I would suggest this bit
http://nsbits.com/global/index.php/dressage-legal/tranz-angled-lozenge-fullcheek.html

ideas? :)

p.s. he is 12 years old, 16hh hanoverianxcob, we only do hacking 4-5 times a week for an hour at a time.
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I'd recommend Neue Schule bits, I swapped from my mullen mouth pelham with a slight raised port to a tranz angled lozenge pelham with a 21mm mouthpiece as my horse has a thick tongue. Its worked wonders especially with my jumping and i am very pleased with it.

If you want something to help with steering then I would suggest this bit
http://nsbits.com/global/index.php/dressage-legal/tranz-angled-lozenge-fullcheek.html
 
applecart14 said:
I'd recommend Neue Schule bits, I swapped from my mullen mouth pelham with a slight raised port to a tranz angled lozenge pelham with a 21mm mouthpiece as my horse has a thick tongue. Its worked wonders especially with my jumping and i am very pleased with it.

If you want something to help with steering then I would suggest this bit
http://nsbits.com/global/index.php/dressage-legal/tranz-angled-lozenge-fullcheek.html
Click to expand...


interesting bit, but nice price too :( . worth seeing if the bit hire company has them before spending this amount out and then its not a real great financial loss when you try.
 
JM2k

I'm sorry but do you really think that this is soft bumping accross the bars of the mouth everytime you ask the horse to turn? Why do stilletto heels make holes in floors - because they have a small point of pressure.
Waterford.jpg


It has pin point pressure all along with bars between that drop over the bars of the moouth. It is a strong bit and that is why many v strong horses behave in it. On some horses it sends them backwards the moment you touch the reins.

The kindest snaffle is a mullen mouth or a Cambridge mouth snaffle.

I break & retrain mine in a Fulmer & drop and have never had a problem with any horse yet. Most of the bitting problems stem from the rider or subtle pain or tension in the horse. If they are good enough for the Lippizaners they are good enough for any of us mere riders.

For the OP - take him out of the waterford - especially as you say he is lazy. His heavyness is most likely insufficient schooling and he is on his forehand. Lots and lots of transitions, between paces and within the pace will sharpen him up and getting him balanced better.

Have a lesson with a good instructor and let them advise you what you need to do.
 
My gelding has a very fleshy tongue and hated jointed bits, never went really well in them at all.

Someone gave me a Sprenger 'correction' bit to try with him...what a difference it made. There is no tongue pressure at all, all contact goes onto the bars of his mouth and made him a much happier chappie

http://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/P/KK_Conrad_Correction_Bit-(426).aspx

P.S. I bought my own from ebay for about £30 ;)
 
GingerCat said:
My gelding has a very fleshy tongue and hated jointed bits, never went really well in them at all.

Someone gave me a Sprenger 'correction' bit to try with him...what a difference it made. There is no tongue pressure at all, all contact goes onto the bars of his mouth and made him a much happier chappie

http://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/P/KK_Conrad_Correction_Bit-(426).aspx

P.S. I bought my own from ebay for about £30 ;)
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I have this one - my mare loves it - cost me $240 NZ.
SprengerSchoolingbit.jpg
 
Evelyn said:
JM2k

I'm sorry but do you really think that this is soft bumping accross the bars of the mouth everytime you ask the horse to turn? Why do stilletto heels make holes in floors - because they have a small point of pressure.
Waterford.jpg


It has pin point pressure all along with bars between that drop over the bars of the moouth. It is a strong bit and that is why many v strong horses behave in it. On some horses it sends them backwards the moment you touch the reins.

The kindest snaffle is a mullen mouth or a Cambridge mouth snaffle.

I break & retrain mine in a Fulmer & drop and have never had a problem with any horse yet. Most of the bitting problems stem from the rider or subtle pain or tension in the horse. If they are good enough for the Lippizaners they are good enough for any of us mere riders.

For the OP - take him out of the waterford - especially as you say he is lazy. His heavyness is most likely insufficient schooling and he is on his forehand. Lots and lots of transitions, between paces and within the pace will sharpen him up and getting him balanced better.

Have a lesson with a good instructor and let them advise you what you need to do.
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clearly a rubber or happy mouth mullen is the mildest, but as these are not going to resolve the OP question/problem then it was irrelevent!!

also, regarding the rider, i presumed that they were competent and efficient enough a rider to understand that any bit is severe in a heavy and wrong hand. also, that schooling and basic instruction would be already under consideration.

and like a simply repeated, it can be trail and error to find a bit that is suitable to each horse as each horse is an individual and should be treated as such, and having owned each of my horses since they were under a year,rode and competed most of my life, it goes without saying - you match the horse - not your own requirements!
 
You say that your horse is on loan & you've only had him a short time - 6 weeks?

If so, then I would suggest contacting his owner....I assume they've put him in the Waterford for a reason? Perhaps they've tried a few bits in the past - at least you could gain some insight into what they've tried & why.

Perhaps I'm way off the mark - but if I loaned a horse out I'd appreciate it if the loaner spoke to me if they had a problem with any of the tack incl the bit. At least I could offer advice / suggestions. Apologies if you've already done this but that would be my suggestion.
 
nicky_jakey said:
You say that your horse is on loan & you've only had him a short time - 6 weeks?

If so, then I would suggest contacting his owner....I assume they've put him in the Waterford for a reason? Perhaps they've tried a few bits in the past - at least you could gain some insight into what they've tried & why.

Perhaps I'm way off the mark - but if I loaned a horse out I'd appreciate it if the loaner spoke to me if they had a problem with any of the tack incl the bit. At least I could offer advice / suggestions. Apologies if you've already done this but that would be my suggestion.
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I don't really want to do this, she is yard manager anyway so I see her around enough, but as I had an accident on him I already feel like she has an opinion on me and although she isn't sarcastic, I don't want to give her any ammo to think that I am not good enough for her horse. I also don't feel like pointing out that e bit she chose for him is making his tongue squish out of the Sides of his mouth but thank you anyway.

And Evelyn, he was out of work for a while (I don't know how long) as she didn't have time to ride him, and probably hasn't been schooled in years?! so yes, he is very under schooled! Hehe.
 
fabola.Faye said:
I don't really want to do this, she is yard manager anyway so I see her around enough, but as I had an accident on him I already feel like she has an opinion on me and although she isn't sarcastic, I don't want to give her any ammo to think that I am not good enough for her horse. I also don't feel like pointing out that e bit she chose for him is making his tongue squish out of the Sides of his mouth but thank you anyway.

And Evelyn, he was out of work for a while (I don't know how long) as she didn't have time to ride him, and probably hasn't been schooled in years?! so yes, he is very under schooled! Hehe.
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To be honest, if i were you i wouldnt worry to much what she thinks of you, or your riding. I think what is important is the horse's welfare. His owner might not have had an issue with using this bit, regardless of how the horse felt, but if you are not happy with how the horse responds to it, maybe you should just ask his owner. (Im asuming he is on loan, sorry havnt read whole post). If he wears it for a reason, fair enough, if not, maybe think about changing it if its what you think is best. What i wouldnt want is for you to change his bit, then something bad happen because of it, and his owner say that he was in that bit for a reason. I dont much like waterford bits, i dont believe them to be mild at all, hence why a lot of people use them for pullers. I would always use the mildest bit possible, but i dont know this horse so maybe he needs it.

I hope you get something sorted with him.
 
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