Can you lay ALOT of surface on top of a concrete base to turn barn into a school?

nikCscott

nikCscott

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 January 2011
Messages
1,212
Visit site
I'm asking for a friend.

She and her husband have had an offer on a farm accepted- VERY EXCITING!

There is a large 20x40 relatively new barn which she'd like to convert into a school for her own use and possible have a few liveries in time (no shows or anything though) she has no use for a barn this size and there are other buildings for the hay, lorry etc.

We were pondering whether the concrete floor would need pulling out or whether you could carefully select a surface (or mix of surfaces) and just use more of it to avoid the mess of all the hardcore to get rid of and hopefully have it finished quicker.

Is this possible has anyone done it?

Thank you
 
They did that at a yard I was at once, it was ok as long as they watered it, otherwise it got deep, was really slippery for jumping though, they had old peat, then passada, now they have woodchip I think. I rarely used it, prefering the outdoor in pretty much all weather other than when it froze!
 
I am sure it is possible, but best to take advice from one of the arena surface companies.

I would think you would need to be careful with what surface you used. Ideally a surface that could hold onto water (ie one of the modern mixes) and water regularly, then the base won't move and it should give a consistent springy surface.

But as I say, talk to a couple of arena companies, they tend to know their stuff and give good advice.
 
Mine is fine. Concrete barn floor. I started with 12-15 inches of pine peelings which are the bark from off trees they are cutting into planks. It's cheap and very resinous (smells gorgeous!) and sticks to the floor. Over a couple of years it broke down and went thin, and I put sand on top, which mixed in well. As that wore thin I mucked out shavings beds into it, and also bought playground wood chips once. It has always ridden well. Mine is only 10x28 but I have cantered and jumped on it.

The aggregate that they use on an outdoor arena should be packed down tight. I don't think that the concrete on an indoor is really any different from that packed stone surface, so I would just lay a normal thickness of top surface on top of the concrete and make sure that is is levelled properly and as often as needed.

I now have an external arena which is much bigger, and if I was going to do another barn with a concrete floor I would but 75mm of equestrian silica sand, 25mm of chopped rubber and 50mm of combi-ride which is what I have on my outdoor. I think it would work well.


ps if the barn is new-ish do suggest that she checks to make sure she has planning consent for use for horses. In some areas, like mine, it is very difficult to get change of use from agricultural to horse for a barn. My barn was put up before planning consent was required so it was not an issue.
 
Last edited:
I know of one barn that has done this, and boarders attributed it to 2 equine fatalities (both slipped and fell awkwardly, one broken neck, one broken leg) to the base.

I was not there, and do not know the full circumstances, but based on this I would be seeking advice from multiple companies and seeing what the consensus is on if they recommend a concrete base, and what surfaces would work best with it.
 
Thank you all - we were thinking out load and when the time comes she will be getting a nice surface. Just though some of you may have experience and I was right- well done HHO'ers!
 
I think that you could. BUt, you would need to get the right base something that will pack down - maybe like an outdoor but missing out the hardcore step. I o think though that if it is deep enough it shouldnt be a problem - and woodchip/mucked out shavings would compact and hold together well I think. I know that when I had a deep litter bed iy was solid..............so i guess it would be like a giant one of those
 
Be very very careful! Our old yard did the same and how a horse never was killed I don't know! Personally I found it gets very dusty and never really rides well. If I was going to consider it there would have to be a non slip membrane down first then sand, then a waxed surface topped with rubber.
 
My only experience with one wasn't great. I think if you are going to the time and the expense you might as well do it properly.
 
Contact several of the large companies & they will have the experience to advise you what surfaces would be right for that situation, Andrews Bowen, Martin Collins etc. It must be possible because surfaces are put down at Olympia, Your Horse Live at Stoneleigh, NEC etc & all those places had concrete surfaces. The pro riders wouldn't jump their horses which are hugely expensive on an arena that is dangerous.
 
I think it could potentially be really dangerous if a hoof was to go through the surface and onto the concrete the impact would be huge. I am not sure if you could lay some form of rubber matting onto it first to stop that happening and then lay the surface on top. My horses feet don't go right through my surface (4 inches of sand and 2 of rubber) but I wouldn't want to take the chance on there joints.
I am sure the surface suppliers would advise you - I have always found them quite helpful.
 
We did it and its fine. The surface is waxed so it is quite firm and they don't go through it but it has give. We do have to take care of it and rake the sides in regularly and make sure there are no thin areas, but as long as everyone keeps an eye on it then its fine. Lunging on it messes it up a bit, especially if the horses are leaping about a bit so we always make sure we inspect after something been having a mad 5 mins in there just to be sure no thin areas have appeared.
I think you can do it, but its not a case of just laying the surface and forgetting about it, you do have to keep a close eye on it after.
 
I'm no expert but I wouldn't ride in a school which had a concrete base, however deep the surface on top was! First thoughts- if it's that deep it'll strain tendons, if it moves it's dangerous and if the horse slips and reaches the concrete... Eek!!
 
I don't understand what anyone thinks is any different about a horse putting its foot through a surface onto the hard packed white limestone used as a base for most outdoor schools and concrete?

My horses never get anywhere close to putting a foot through my outdoor OR indoor surfaces, and I can honestly say the one on concrete behaves no differently than the one on limestone packed by driving a road roller over it. It's all about the surface, not the concrete or the limestone/hardcore.

I've done flying changes in a barn 30 yards long and had no problems. I can only think that these dead horses described in earlier posts would have died anyway ridden the same way on the same surface, maintained the same way, on an outdoor arena. Some woodchip surfaces in the old days were terribly slippery and some people also cut corners by using builder's sand, which is completely the wrong stuff.
 
Last edited:
I know an outdoor with concrete surface....at current place
The sand rubber is far too thin and prob only few inches thick....
I'd defo go by professional company advice, I feel ours is dangerously thin, very bad for joints....I only ride in there as last resort. Others jump and its frequently got concrete showing.....
 
I have to disagree with most posters! In my experience concrete is a fab base for an INDOOR school. Indoor you do not need drainage so need for hardcore, membranes, etc. The surface should be the same depth as usual to avoid a horse going through it, i.e. 15cm compacted. The surface you put down depends on what you can afford but sand will need regular watering.

The main questions your friend needs to consider though is whether the concrete is level. If it is not then it's a disaster as any unlevelness will be reflected in the final surface. A concrete floor put down for a barn is highly unlikely to be level in the first place as that kind of precision is not necessary; she won't be able to tell with the naked eye, she will need a laser leveler.

Secondly, the hight of the roof is unlikely to be safe enough for horses. She needs to consider the possibility of a horse rearing and/or jumping in the arena and have good head clearance - most barns are not made that high, least of all because of planning restrictions.

Finally, she may well need to apply for change of use and will need to pay council rates on the indoor school which may make any livery business unviable.
 
Damn phone.
Bingley hall at scope. That's a concrete floor that horses jump on all week long. I think it comes down to the right surface and the right depth.
 
cptrayes said:
I don't understand what anyone thinks is any different about a horse putting its foot through a surface onto the hard packed white limestone used as a base for most outdoor schools and concrete?

My horses never get anywhere close to putting a foot through my outdoor OR indoor surfaces, and I can honestly say the one on concrete behaves no differently than the one on limestone packed by driving a road roller over it. It's all about the surface, not the concrete or the limestone/hardcore.

I've done flying changes in a barn 30 yards long and had no problems. I can only think that these dead horses described in earlier posts would have died anyway ridden the same way on the same surface, maintained the same way, on an outdoor arena. Some woodchip surfaces in the old days were terribly slippery and some people also cut corners by using builder's sand, which is completely the wrong stuff.
Click to expand...

Hiya jumping in this thread many years later! are you based in the UK and where did you get your pine peelings from? I do have a timber yard near by so I ill give them a shout to see if they have any but would be great to have a back up if needs be.

Many Thank yous!
 
wits end said:
I know of one barn that has done this, and boarders attributed it to 2 equine fatalities (both slipped and fell awkwardly, one broken neck, one broken leg) to the base.

I was not there, and do not know the full circumstances, but based on this I would be seeking advice from multiple companies and seeing what the consensus is on if they recommend a concrete base, and what surfaces would work best with it.
Click to expand...
They did it where I once kept my pony and he slipped taking a corner too fast resulting in a broken leg. Fortunately it was mine, not his.
 
I ride in one with a concrete base, currently sand and carpet mix on top. Kept damp and maintained its fine. I'd just ring up a few surface companies and ask what they recommend.
 
I realise this an old thread, but HOYS, Olympia and others all have concrete floors with a surface on and they jump some BIG fences. So I would go with one of the major companies if I had a barn with concrete floor. (That’s wishful thinking on my part?)
 
The surfaces at all the major inddor horse shows - HOYS, Liverpool, Olympia etc are all put down on concrete. Speak to the surface contractors and ask advice. I suspect the maintenance will be crucial.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top