Can you make a profit from running a livery yard?

[Eventer2017]

I am looking at a career move and wondering if it is possible to make a profit running a livery yard, as I hear so many people say you can’t. My horse is currently on full livery and pretty much most of my salary is spent on him and my hobby anyway. It would be fantastic to work with horses but I wouldn’t want to sacrifice owning and competing as I do at present.

 

[EventingMum]

It's very difficult, overheads are high, employing staff is not cheap with workplace pensions etc, insurance, health and safety, utilities, business rates, maintenance of premises and land are just a few considerations. Even if you intend to do much of the work yourself you will need cover when you are competing. If you don't own a property you will also have rental costs. On top of all this you need to think about your clients, remember for them it is a hobby, they may well be working full time so need access to their horses out with the normal working day plus you can't guarantee you won't get very demanding, awkward people who expect you to be at their beck and call 24/7. Many clients won't / can't afford to pay a realistic rate for the service they receive, when you consider it probably costs more to board a dog in kennels than most livery yards charge it brings it into perspective. On the plus side most of my liveries have been lovely and I've made many good friends through running a yard and it has allowed me to keep our own horses. However, it's very much a lifestyle business and our family life is mainly paid for by Mr EM's income not the yard.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

No, but if you owned the yard you might make a small living, enough to pay your food bills and fuel etc. Sorry.

 

[paddi22]

I am friends with 3 good livery yard owners, non of who make a proper profit. the most they do is subsidise their own horses.They all work their fingers to the bone as well, i don't know how they do it.

 

[Wheels]

Even if you make a profit it is unlikely to make you a living- there is a vast difference

 

[tda]

I think the key is it allows you to have the facilities and space to keep your own horse(s), but don't think there is much profit as such x

 

[windand rain]

Not a profit as such but pays the feed bill for mine

 

[Cowpony]

No. Next?!

 

[be positive]

I think it is difficult to do any more than cover costs especially if you are renting, I have my own yard and have had good years but they are normally because I have taken on a project or two and sold well, have had sales liveries in that sold quickly, I do a fairly low livery rate and take a % and also do some teaching to subsidise the livery income.

 

[blitznbobs]

Depends on how big you want to go...those who make a good living out of it have a lot of stables and a lot of land and run other events as well...

We had a few diy liveries for a while but it’s not a living wage and they’re more hassle than they are worth and we own the land

 

[Hack4fun]

A decent number of horses and a well run yard can make enough money to give you a salary even after rent, but it is not a route to riches. Remember that every livery space you occupy with your own horses is one less that can be earning you a living. My suggestion is to do the maths properly and calculate your costs and income. Remember is is a 365 day per year business, and almost 24 hours per day.

 

[cbmcts]

OH and I looked at doing this a few years back when a local large livery yard came on the market. Despite planning on selling both our houses we would have needed a large mortgage so when we did the sums we just couldn't make it work. This was with renting out all the spare buildings to businesses, setting up to sell feed and hay to other owners/yards that didn't have much storage, adding full, sales livery etc and hugely upping the number of horses on site by offering retirement livery (lots of land), using everything we could think of generate income. Also looked at adding beef or pigs to access farm subsidies and grants. Even so, one or both of us would still need a job off site as the yard income wouldn't have covered our living costs so to eat, drink, run a car or go on holiday etc we would have needed a salary from elsewhere.

The other thing was that if we had expanded the yard as planned the local residents would have gone barmy - they whinged regularly anyway when it was a small grass livery. As the lady who owned it had aged she had cut back because she owned it outright mainly because as houses were built around it, the residents kicked off about everything...they were very quick to forget that it had originally been a working farm with beef and dairy cattle and a stud.

So I would say no that while you might make a profit, unless you actually owned the land free and clear you would struggle to make a living with just livery.

 

[w1bbler]

Our yo is also a cattle farmer. He regularly says the livery makes more money than his cattle. But he owns all the land, only does essential maintenance & it is very diy, no services or hay/ bedding offered

 

[paddi22]

Our yo is also a cattle farmer. He regularly says the livery makes more money than his cattle. But he owns all the land, only does essential maintenance & it is very diy, no services or hay/ bedding offered

our neighbour does the same. they were sheep farmers and they changed some of the fields over to grass livery and made more money. But they don't have stables/arena etc, its just a retirement livery really.

 

[Leo Walker]

I put together a business plan for a track livery system, with resting racehorses in the middle of the track, land left for hay, land sub let to cattle, and a XC hired out etc and it would have supported one person on a reasonable salary. The problem was it needed 2.5 to run it properly. If there had been accommodation then it would have worked but then again accommodation would have meant more costs.

So yes it can work, but you need the right place, in the right location and the right set of circumstances and you must do your sums and do them again and again to make sure it adds up. And then be prepared to work blumming hard for small returns.

 

[Cortez]

Define "profit"......and also look up the word "slavery". I have run a livery yard (briefly): never again.

 

[Eventer2017]

I am looking at a career move and wondering if it is possible to make a profit running a livery yard, as I hear so many people say you can’t. My horse is currently on full livery and pretty much most of my salary is spent on him and my hobby anyway. It would be fantastic to work with horses but I wouldn’t want to sacrifice owning and competing as I do at present.

 

[Eventer2017]

Thanks for everyone’s replies! Really helpful! By ‘profit’ I mean enough money left over each month to feed, stable and do some competitions with my horse; I wouldn’t need a salary for myself as such 😊 I’ve got lots to think about!

 

[Leo Walker]

Thanks for everyone’s replies! Really helpful! By ‘profit’ I mean enough money left over each month to feed, stable and do some competitions with my horse; I wouldn’t need a salary for myself as such 😊 I’ve got lots to think about!

So no salary means no holiday pay, no savings, no pension, nothing to run a car with or buy food with. Nothing for insurance incase you get hurt or permanently incapacitated. I think you need to have a long hard think about this as you seem terrifyingly naive and its not hard to get in an enormous financial muddle!

 

[Eventer2017]

So no salary means no holiday pay, no savings, no pension, nothing to run a car with or buy food with. Nothing for insurance incase you get hurt or permanently incapacitated. I think you need to have a long hard think about this as you seem terrifyingly naive and its not hard to get in an enormous financial muddle!

Correct - I have that covered separately 😊

 

[joosie]

In other words you already have a career and source of income & the livery yard would be a secondary income?

 

[Eventer2017]

In other words you already have a career and source of income & the livery yard would be a secondary income?

I was wondering whether running a livery yard would bring me in say £500-£1000 per month to cover my own horses costs. I have heard some yards make a loss so was just trying to get a general idea of others’ experiences before producing a detailed Business Plan. I am married so I am not on one income 😊

 

[case895]

In pure financial terms, use the Tesco test. Estimate the hours you would have to work and divide by the amount you would make. Compare the hourly rate to what Tescos pay to stack shelves.

Two of my friends run a yard and it just about breaks even, but means their horses are kept for free, plus facilities and grooms so they only have to wield a shavings fork on Christmas Day. The farm side of the business makes money, as they sell hay, straw (to themselves, liveries and others) and receive BPS.

 

[Ceifer]

I have run a livery yard that made a profit. Worked on one that made the owner a small fortune (it was a working livery yard though). But predominantly worked on those that barely scraped a profit.

The biggest problem most had was that the owners expected the yard to not only make a profit but support x number of their own horses, provide an income for them and employ staff.
The worst one I had was a woman trying to run a yard and have the profit pay for her 15 horses!

It is doable but you need a lot of things on your side.

 

[Leo Walker]

I was wondering whether running a livery yard would bring me in say £500-£1000 per month to cover my own horses costs. I have heard some yards make a loss so was just trying to get a general idea of others’ experiences before producing a detailed Business Plan. I am married so I am not on one income 😊

You can do that with the right set up, but you will be working full time and probably then some to do it. Which is why most people who dont own land go to work to earn money and keep the horses and finances separate

 

[chocolategirl]

It's very difficult, overheads are high, employing staff is not cheap with workplace pensions etc, insurance, health and safety, utilities, business rates, maintenance of premises and land are just a few considerations. Even if you intend to do much of the work yourself you will need cover when you are competing. If you don't own a property you will also have rental costs. On top of all this you need to think about your clients, remember for them it is a hobby, they may well be working full time so need access to their horses out with the normal working day plus you can't guarantee you won't get very demanding, awkward people who expect you to be at their beck and call 24/7. Many clients won't / can't afford to pay a realistic rate for the service they receive, when you consider it probably costs more to board a dog in kennels than most livery yards charge it brings it into perspective. On the plus side most of my liveries have been lovely and I've made many good friends through running a yard and it has allowed me to keep our own horses. However, it's very much a lifestyle business and our family life is mainly paid for by Mr EM's income not the yard.

Wow! It’s like someone went inside my head, read my thoughts and put them down in writing! Scary😳so, in a word NO! Very very difficult to make a living running a yard. Mine is DIY, we own so no rent etc, and as we make our own hay and straw, that’s the only reason we make anything at all. If you’re doing it properly, like me, as in spend money improving facilities and maintenance, the figures just will not add up, trust me. Sorry if that’s not what you want to hear, but like this reply, what people are prepared to pay, just doesn’t tally with how much it actually costs to provide.😏

 

[sport horse]

Our yo is also a cattle farmer. He regularly says the livery makes more money than his cattle. But he owns all the land, only does essential maintenance & it is very diy, no services or hay/ bedding offered

I think it may be that a farmer can diversify and run a livery yard and his land and buildings will still be classified as agricultural ie not subject to rates or need planning permission. That would make it a little easier to make a profit!

 

[Sussexbythesea]

From what I’ve seen you can make money but really you need your own mortgage free place and run a tight ship doing as much as you can yourself so you don’t have to pay out wages etc. That will be the biggest cost to most businesses.

I do think people don’t always include the cost of the benefits they receive from just owning the property such as increase in value which may be just inflationary but improvements will also add value if they are the right ones. Also savings from not having to have their own horses on livery and travel to and from yard which can be significant.

But it’s still a lot of hard work and it’s certainly not an easy option.

 

[meleeka]

I know someone who has a small yard of around 10 boxes. She doesn’t have staff and only has full or part livery. It’s not cheap either but it is in a lovely location and she owns the land. I believe she does make a small living from it as well as keeping her own horses for free.

 

[Theocat]

Thanks for everyone’s replies! Really helpful! By ‘profit’ I mean enough money left over each month to feed, stable and do some competitions with my horse; I wouldn’t need a salary for myself as such 😊 I’ve got lots to think about!

Without knowing anything about you and forgive me for making some assumptions: I think you should have a very serious conversation with your other half. From what I gather from this thread, they cover almost all costs already, and you are really just funding your horse. You'd therefore like to have a crack at running a yard and use the profit to cover the horse costs.

Even if you do manage to generate enough profit to cover the same costs you are meeting at the moment, your life is going to change dramatically. You'll be working early mornings and doing late night checks every single day. You will struggle to get away for a week or a fortnight on holiday, or even to pop away for weekends. You will be working on bank holidays. You will be constantly on call to deal with other people's vet emergencies and disorganisation. If the yard is at home (which it needs to be so you're on hand) you will have other people all over your yard all day, every day.

Your OH needs to understand that you wouldn't just be swopping one job for another. It will take over both your lives and have a serious impact on your freedoms and activities.

For your OH, it is probably not going to be a change for the better. And if they are funding everything else in the marriage, that could make you both unhappy.

I am making some big assumptions here - but unstressed yard owners who have free time to do other things and manage to maintain successful personal lives are even more rare than yard owners who make a profit!