Can you sell on an RSPCA horse you've rehomed?

[MadBlackLab]

I completely agree with your pts point, GS but don't understand your point about capacity. WHW, Happa, etc all retain ownership of their rehomed equines and take back and find new homes for any which need that. It would not need a vast number of spare places to be available, as most of those horses would be moved out again. It does of course mean that RSPCA don't take responsibility for their elderly horses and ponies which can't be ridden and may be at greatest risk of being returned.
It doesn't put the charity in a good light at all imho.

and would explain why there is a lot of negativity towards the RSPCA

 

[Goldenstar]

I am no apologist for the RSPCA but the job they do is far more complex and difficult than many of the sanctuary type charities.
They are not in the buisness of 'owning ' hundreds of horses and in almost all cases the people best placed to decide when to PTS on old horse is the people who have cared for it during its life not a large bureaucratic charity it's certain something that stopped me rehoming a TB from a certain charities when I looked into it ,I could not entertain a third party being involved in the desision.
In all the doom and gloom it is important to remember that most horses are well cared for and having been put on the right track they go on to have normal lives with no more imput from charities .
.

 

[spottybotty]

I am no apologist for the RSPCA but the job they do is far more complex and difficult than many of the sanctuary type charities.
They are not in the buisness of 'owning ' hundreds of horses and in almost all cases the people best placed to decide when to PTS on old horse is the people who have cared for it during its life not a large bureaucratic charity it's certain something that stopped me rehoming a TB from a certain charities when I looked into it ,I could not entertain a third party being involved in the desision.
In all the doom and gloom it is important to remember that most horses are well cared for and having been put on the right track they go on to have normal lives with no more imput from charities .
.

But how on earth do you know that? If they lose contact/responsiblity. I am utterly gobsmacked to be honest I honestly thought as others did that there was a contract and they were loaned. They have no idea, however much the origional home is checked where they will end up if sold on after a year!

 

[Goldenstar]

But how on earth do you know that? If they lose contact/responsiblity. I am utterly gobsmacked to be honest I honestly thought as others did that there was a contract and they were loaned. They have no idea, however much the origional home is checked where they will end up if sold on after a year!

Well of course I don't know that I never said I did .
But the vast majority of horses go through life well treated so they don't need the imput of charities I think the view is having put the horse on the right track they are in the same situation as everybody else's horses .

 

[spottybotty]

Well of course I don't know that I never said I did .
But the vast majority of horses go through life well treated so they don't need the imput of charities I think the view is having put the horse on the right track they are in the same situation as everybody else's horses .

But these are not everybody elses horses/ponies are they ? They have been removed from dreadfull neglect and mis-treatment, and should be assured a definite secure future full -stop, with the RSPCA`s policy of "selling" after a year they cant possibly do that.

 

[MadBlackLab]

But these are not everybody elses horses/ponies are they ? They have been removed from dreadfull neglect and mis-treatment, and should be assured a definite secure future full -stop, with the RSPCA`s policy of "selling" after a year they cant possibly do that.

Agree with this

 

[Goldenstar]

I am curious as to why just because a horse has been helped by a charity it needs to belong to that charity for ever to make sure it's future is assured when anyone else sells their horse and that's that.
The monies recieved for the horses goes to fund more work and last time I looked they where not what would have called cheap verses the market .

 

[spottybotty]

I am curious as to why just because a horse has been helped by a charity it needs to belong to that charity for ever to make sure it's future is assured when anyone else sells their horse and that's that.
The monies recieved for the horses goes to fund more work and last time I looked they where not what would have called cheap verses the market .

Honestly if they cant do what WHW, HAPPA, Redwings etc do they should have them PTS at the beginning instead ,at least then they can never end up in another dreadfull situation. The RSPCA are also using these animals in their fundraising, they use pictures of appalling neglect to get the public to part with their money, They should ultimatly keep control of that animal for all of its life. Believe me I am no RSPCA basher, I work with field officers but I am utterly dismayed at their policy. It just occured to me that anyone could also breed from them and add to the over population, Sorry but I just cant get my head around it!

 

[Goldenstar]

Honestly if they cant do what WHW, HAPPA, Redwings etc do they should have them PTS at the beginning instead ,at least then they can never end up in another dreadfull situation. The RSPCA are also using these animals in their fundraising, they use pictures of appalling neglect to get the public to part with their money, They should ultimatly keep control of that animal for all of its life.

That's just your point of view the charity has formed another .
I don't have any view on this btw apart from I would never care for a horse where I was not in charge of what happened at the end .

 

[Tiddlypom]

But these are not everybody elses horses/ponies are they ? They have been removed from dreadfull neglect and mis-treatment, and should be assured a definite secure future full -stop, with the RSPCA`s policy of "selling" after a year they cant possibly do that.

This ^^^.

GS I respect your point of view too, and I know that you have a background in this field, but these animals have been to hell and back already. Many of them will carry permanent mental and physical scars, too, despite extensive rehabilitation. They are unfortunately just the kind who could up in the doo doo if they are passed on.

I am still feeling very emotive about this. It simply never occurred to me that Lucky Charm would not remain the responsibility of the RSPCA for the rest of her natural life. I thought I was doing the best by her, letting her go to a new adoptive home as a child's pony. I wish that I had kept her. She would have been my excuse for learning to drive so I could have given her a job.

 

[khalswitz]

I buy and sell horses all the time - loving the assumption that horses are better pts than sold. Personally I prefer the way the RSPCA and sspca do things - the horse can go back into the 'normal' world and be bought and sold like a normal horse. I wouldn't have my sspca horse if it weren't that he were mine - and I was thoroughly interviewed and home checked before he came to me, so I would think they would be reasonably sure that I would act in his best interests, the way I would try to be with any buyer of my horses!

It's easy to compare sspca/RSPCA to WHW etc but they aren't a specialised equine charity, and this is the model they have followed with cats and dogs successfully for a long time - I can see why they would follow the same model with horses. They don't deserve shock and appall!!

 

[spottybotty]

I buy and sell horses all the time - loving the assumption that horses are better pts than sold. Personally I prefer the way the RSPCA and sspca do things - the horse can go back into the 'normal' world and be bought and sold like a normal horse. I wouldn't have my sspca horse if it weren't that he were mine - and I was thoroughly interviewed and home checked before he came to me, so I would think they would be reasonably sure that I would act in his best interests, the way I would try to be with any buyer of my horses!

It's easy to compare sspca/RSPCA to WHW etc but they aren't a specialised equine charity, and this is the model they have followed with cats and dogs successfully for a long time - I can see why they would follow the same model with horses. They don't deserve shock and appall!!

Thats certainly not what I was saying, by all means buy and sell, back and bring on but if a horse is so badley treated / neglected that it ends up in the care of the RSPCA they should assure its future and the policy they have now does not. Certainly dont use the Term "rescue" either if you cant gurantee a permanant home.

 

[khalswitz]

Thats certainly not what I was saying, by all means buy and sell, back and bring on but if a horse is so badley treated / neglected that it ends up in the care of the RSPCA they should assure its future and the policy they have now does not.

Not all of the horses in these places have been to hell and back though! And I worked at the sspca so that is first hand... Mine was one of thirty or so seized because they broke transport law regarding importing from Ireland without passports... Not a thing wrong with any of them. RSPCA and sspca get animals whose owners have died and not made provisions, whose owners are in prison and social work has organised care and eventual sign over for rehoming... Probably around a third of horses that came in were your neglect cases. So why not just sell these horses on to new, well vetted homes? And if they were that psychologically damaged under RSPCA/ sspca policy they are 'unhealthy' so can be pts - they won't be passed around.

 

[shellonabeach]

I have a pony from the RSPCA, a friend of a friend got her from them about 7yrs ago and had to give her up 3yrs ago due to family problems, I had looked after her all this time (she is approx 30yrs old now) and so I took her on from my friend as she was settled and happy with my other two.

I had her micro-chipped and passported myself as despite contacting the RSPCA I was unable to get a duplicate copy of her passport.

This summer at Equifest I had a chat with a lady on the RSPCA rehoming stand, all these years I have worried they would come and ask for £XXX for the pony or even ask for her back!! She explained that the horse is on loan for 6 months after which the passport is changed into the new owners name and the horse is theirs to do with as they wish, even sell on...

Edited to add my little lady was part of a cruelty case, found in a field with her foal where some of her companions had starved to death

 

[Tiddlypom]

Below is one of the horses currently up for adoption at the same rescue centre that I fostered Lucky Charm from.

'Gandalf story is truly shocking. His owner was arrested by the police after dragging Gandalf behind his 4x4 vehicle down the main road he suffered horrific injuries to his knees where he had been dragged along the floor. Understandable this made Gandalf very nervous and wary of people. Fortunately he came into the care of the RSPCA where his injuries were treated and he was shown the kindness and care that he deserved. This handsome chap is a 12 year old gelding standing at 15.1hh and deserves to find that special home his adoption fee is £100.00'

In my opinion, this chap should remain on the books of the rescuing charity for the rest of his life. Of course he should also have the chance to be 'adopted', I have no time for those charities that simply hoard animals, but I still think that they should retain the ultimate responsibility, and ownership, of him.

 

[khalswitz]

Below is one of the horses currently up for adoption at the same rescue centre that I fostered Lucky Charm from.

'Gandalf story is truly shocking. His owner was arrested by the police after dragging Gandalf behind his 4x4 vehicle down the main road he suffered horrific injuries to his knees where he had been dragged along the floor. Understandable this made Gandalf very nervous and wary of people. Fortunately he came into the care of the RSPCA where his injuries were treated and he was shown the kindness and care that he deserved. This handsome chap is a 12 year old gelding standing at 15.1hh and deserves to find that special home his adoption fee is £100.00'

In my opinion, this chap should remain on the books of the rescuing charity for the rest of his life. Of course he should also have the chance to be 'adopted', I have no time for those charities that simply hoard animals, but I still think that they should retain the ultimate responsibility, and ownership, of him.

Whereas I look upon it that it is acceptable to rehome a dog that has been treated cruelly or neglected, so why not a horse? Why do we trust people with ownership of abused dogs, who are just as likely to require specialist handling, and more likely to hurt someone if it goes wrong, yet not with horses? Just because the model isn't what the rest of the equine charities do doesn't mean it is wrong - like I said they aren't an equine charity, so they apply things differently.

Personally I think if you trust someone to loan a horse to them 'permanently', then why not trust them with ownership? Ultimately they will still be looking after the animal, so it isn't a huge step on in terms of trust. And the ones who have had a hard time don't just get fed up and shove rout the door, they are along term residents that a very specific home is looked for for them. It is very rare to hear of a horse getting sold on without the sspca being notified - and if not the horsy community is very quick to hear about it so these things get around very quickly!

You'll also find a clause in the rehoming contract certainly for the sspca that allows for 'home checks' even after ownership is transferred. Obviously after this point rights are different, but they don't just forget about the animal and never check up again - they are on the radar.

 

[Tiddlypom]

You'll also find a clause in the rehoming contract certainly for the sspca that allows for 'home checks' even after ownership is transferred. Obviously after this point rights are different, but they don't just forget about the animal and never check up again - they are on the radar.

This sounds as though it is on the right tracks. I'm not sure about the RSPCA angle on this, I need to do some research. Sounds at the mo as if its out of sight, out of mind a few months after the animal has been sold.

Anyone able to show me that I'm wrong on that?

 

[khalswitz]

This sounds as though it is on the right tracks. I'm not sure about the RSPCA angle on this, I need to do some research. Sounds at the mo as if its out of sight, out of mind a few months after the animal has been sold.

Anyone able to show me that I'm wrong on that?

Yeah, and they do keep up with it too, not so often to be annoying but certainly just so they know where the animal is. They don't have rights over the animal, but if welfare standards declined there are clauses in the contracts about welfare that they could probably play on if necessary. My last check was done very informally as an old colleague, but they still checked.

RE RSPCA, rehoming conditions here: http://content.www.rspca.org.uk/cms...goBlobs&blobwhere=1233016139904&ssbinary=true

Regarding resale: "The Adopter agrees not to irresponsibly sell or part with the animal." So they have left themselves some leeway there if they think a horse is being passed around. Their conditions aren't written up online as the sspca's are, but would be interested to see a copy of their rehoming contract...

 

[be positive]

Below is one of the horses currently up for adoption at the same rescue centre that I fostered Lucky Charm from.

'Gandalf story is truly shocking. His owner was arrested by the police after dragging Gandalf behind his 4x4 vehicle down the main road he suffered horrific injuries to his knees where he had been dragged along the floor. Understandable this made Gandalf very nervous and wary of people. Fortunately he came into the care of the RSPCA where his injuries were treated and he was shown the kindness and care that he deserved. This handsome chap is a 12 year old gelding standing at 15.1hh and deserves to find that special home his adoption fee is £100.00'

In my opinion, this chap should remain on the books of the rescuing charity for the rest of his life. Of course he should also have the chance to be 'adopted', I have no time for those charities that simply hoard animals, but I still think that they should retain the ultimate responsibility, and ownership, of him.

This horse could be rehomed for the sum of £100, the new owners after a period of time could decide to sell on for whatever reason, the horse could then possibly end up in an unsuitable home, be passed on again, at the bottom end of the market he could end up in a similar situation to that he was rescued from, it is a lottery once they have been sold on and if the purchase price is low often they are respected less than they deserve.

I buy and sell a few but they are not bottom end horses, they could still end up being unlucky but by being well educated and confident they are far less likely to ever be passed on for a pittance, there will never be a guarantee but surely the point of rescuing is to remove it from the situation where it is at risk and ensure that it is safe, whether that is being pts or rehomed depends on the individual but to sell them seems wrong to me.

The difference between dogs being rehomed and horses is that horses are deemed to have a "value" for most of their life, not many people will pay for a mongrel dog of teenage years but a teenage horse will still go through dealers and sales rings for something until they end up going for meat, it may just be for a pittance but this is how low end dealers make a living, high turn over, low profit they are happy if they just get a drink out of it.

 

[RaynerK]

My horse that I lost last year, Merlin was ceased by the RSPCA as a yearling and legitimately sold on by the person who rehomed him as a youngster as she couldn't cope with his behaviour.
The next owner perservered for years but ultimately sold him on due to dangerous behavioural issues and by the time I ended up with him he'd been through several homes and at least three sales rings in less than two months.
All very sad, horses rescued by the RSPCA definitely don't have loving homes for life - this is another reason to avoid them like the plague.
They are not truly a rescue sanctury like Redwings or the Blue Cross who ensure animals they have rescued are well cared for for the rest of their lives.

In the interest of fairness, I rescued a foal from the RSPCA 6 years ago and he is the horse of a life time and has a forever home with me. I have been offered good money for him but he is absolutely priceless to me. Honestly wouldn't part with him for a million pounds

An equine inspector came to check him after a years loan and checked that he had been seen by the vet, farrier and dentist regularly and literally gave me a quiz on horse care and management (I also had a verbal test before they gave him too me on loan). They were satisfied that I was knowledgeable and committed and so signed his ownership to me thus I could sell him if I wanted. The inspector gave me her mobile number to me in case I ever needed advice or to rehome him etc so I think they responsibly rehomed him.

Obviously it doesn't always work as well as this but I just thought you all might like to hear of a case where things have worked as they should in an ideal word.

I am very lucky I found him, I could never have afforded to by a horse a nice as he is and would get another from them in a heartbeat

 

[Trix98]

Gosh, I've learned so much that I wasn't aware of! Just makes me worry about how much RSPCA rescue cases floating around in sales and market...
Tiddlypom, I think I saw Charm on the rehoming page a while back and I assume they have gone a new home now.
I agree that they obviously don't have the facilities to take back all the horses that don't get along with new owners, but the Blue Cross and other centres make the effort for this, so why can't the RSPCA? When people leave the horses to them in a will, they believe that they have a home for life. Not that they may end up being passed from pillar to post which I assume is the issue they tried to avoid in the first place. Sad really.

 

[khalswitz]

Gosh, I've learned so much that I wasn't aware of! Just makes me worry about how much RSPCA rescue cases floating around in sales and market...
Tiddlypom, I think I saw Charm on the rehoming page a while back and I assume they have gone a new home now.
I agree that they obviously don't have the facilities to take back all the horses that don't get along with new owners, but the Blue Cross and other centres make the effort for this, so why can't the RSPCA? When people leave the horses to them in a will, they believe that they have a home for life. Not that they may end up being passed from pillar to post which I assume is the issue they tried to avoid in the first place. Sad really.

The literature clearly explains that the SSPCA rehome your animals, not keep them for life in legacy cases. Also, they AREN'T necessarily passed from pillar to post - this is what is frustrating me. Not ONE of the horses we ever rehomed from the SSPCA was even sold on during the time I was there - not even old cases we were checking up on. One or two were returned to the SSPCA, as the contract states they will always take the horse back, but not one sold on. You assume that the SSPCA/RSPCA just sells animals on willy-nilly - they do thorough checks, and are looking for ideally homes for life, although I know a couple of youngsters we sold to very good homes, who we knew would not stay there forever, but would get a very good start to their ridden careers, and when eventually sold they would have increased hugely in value - not your pass arounds for sure!

I don't know about the RSPCA, but at the SSPCA you pay not far off market price for the horses - my lad, I paid 1.5k for, and he's worth twice that now the work has gone in, so I'd be fuming if they expected me to just hand him back after all that work. He is no different to any other horse, and in my opinion if you can;t trust the rehomer to own them and possibly sell on responsibly, then why are you trusting them to loan them and have responsibility for their care?

 

[Tiddlypom]

I don't know about the RSPCA, but at the SSPCA you pay not far off market price for the horses - my lad, I paid 1.5k for, and he's worth twice that now the work has gone in, so I'd be fuming if they expected me to just hand him back after all that work. He is no different to any other horse

To be fair, though, your horse was not a cruelty case, was he? Though he could well have become one if SSPCA had not stepped in to take responsibility for him when he was confiscated/ impounded whatever for not having a passport.

Many of us assumed that because WHW, TRC, HAPPA etc retain ownership of their equines, that the RSPCA did too, especially as the RSPCA still list the animals as being up for 'adoption' not 'sale'. You can see where the confusion has come from.

Lucky Charm was a cruelty case, she was abandoned to starve in winter, she was found standing over the body of a dead companion. Luckily, she never lost her trust in people and should go on to be a cracking ride and drive pony. It's just that I never actually asked the Rescue Centre whether they would keep tabs on her for the rest of her life, as I simply assumed that they would.

 

[khalswitz]

To be fair, though, your horse was not a cruelty case, was he? Though he could well have become one if SSPCA had not stepped in to take responsibility for him when he was confiscated/ impounded whatever for not having a passport.

Many of us assumed that because WHW, TRC, HAPPA etc retain ownership of their equines, that the RSPCA did too, especially as the RSPCA still list the animals as being up for 'adoption' not 'sale'. You can see where the confusion has come from.

Lucky Charm was a cruelty case, she was abandoned to starve in winter, she was found standing over the body of a dead companion. Luckily, she never lost her trust in people and should go on to be a cracking ride and drive pony. It's just that I never actually asked the Rescue Centre whether they would keep tabs on her for the rest of her life, as I simply assumed that they would.

No mine was not - and most of the ones the SSPCA dealt with while I was there weren't. However even the ones that had been, if they had the time and the care put in at the centre generally became good equine citizens. We had one older lad, so skinny when he came in it was sickening, but after a long time gaining wait and being worked with, he was an absolutely fab, bombproof hack ideal for a nervous or novicey rider. He was sold on as this, and has spent the last few years making a girl with autism very happy hacking out with her mum, getting all the best and doing a great job too. He had had a hard time, but didn't mean that he couldn't come back from that and become a great horse. And the money from selling him went towards helping another horse. They still get updates from him regularly, and had his most recent check a few months ago as I was tagged in the photos on Facebook.

Some horses do stay at the SSPCA - the ones with temperament problems, that just don't come right, or the vast majority of the companion types. They are very hard to rehome so stay pretty much forever! But if they can get a good new home outside oft he centre, and the new owners pass all the interviews and home checks, then why not rehome them? It's not just a case of, if a horse has been treated cruelly, they need to be kept hold of forever. Some horses will never get over it, but the beauty of the forgiving nature of horses is that so many of them do - and why then if they can move past it can everyone else not?

I think it needs the serious consideration of what the horse can do, its temperament, and the home it needs, hence the sometimes years before rehoming, but I'll be honest when the adopter's details etc are all in the system, there are checks, and the horse is kept on the radar, why not sell it? If you trust the person you are rehoming to enough to look after the horse, then as long as it stays on the radar wrt its welfare then I just don't see the problem.

I agree about labelling it adoption - I don't know about the RSPCA but the SSPCA don't use that term, they call it rehoming with a rehoming fee.

I don't know - maybe having worked there so long, and having retrained so many difficult/problem horses myself I am a lot less mollycoddling of them. Once they have had the time to physically recover, the retraining and the temperament is decided to be sound, then I don't see why we can't just treat them as horses. NO horse should be abused/neglected, so saying that it is fine to sell ones like mine who were essentially fine but not one who has been neglected doesn;t sit right with me - after he has been rehabilitated, he is just a horse too, and needs the good correct care in the right type of home, same as when I sell any of my horses. Like we say to owners on here, if they are the type to be passed around, don't sell them, pts instead. But why not sell on a previous neglect case that, once rehabbed, is a fab riding horse, or a perfect companion?