Can you successfully sue someone if you take a fall from their horse?

It's a strange world sometimes....accidents happen and it sounds just that, in fact if you want to find fault I would blame your friend. She was leading the horse into it's stable and she let it barge back out....are we really wanting to live in a world where no one will help anyone else out ?
 
I partly agree with you. However from what was told on both parts she did try to keep the horse back.
She's not weak, small or inexperienced. But we all know how strong even the small ponies can be never mind 15h+ well built horses.

It seems in this situation people are spilt. Some believe it to be the fault of my friend some the owner. Not to mention solicitors believe she has a very good case. But I know nothing about this whole situation. Law baffles me.
 
Tabula Rasa said:
I partly agree with you. However from what was told on both parts she did try to keep the horse back.
She's not weak, small or inexperienced. But we all know how strong even the small ponies can be never mind 15h+ well built horses.

It seems in this situation people are spilt. Some believe it to be the fault of my friend some the owner. Not to mention solicitors believe she has a very good case. But I know nothing about this whole situation. Law baffles me.
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To me it's black and white. If you aren't prepared to accept the dangers and risks that come with being around horses then stay as far away as possible!!! We all know that by nature they are flight animals and because of that are totally unpredictable.��
 
I don't think anyone has made the point that if you have someone come in VOLUNTARILY, without pay, to help with horses, by law, you need Employers Liability Insurance. At least, that is what I was advised and, yes, I do have it.

Second point, I am a bit shocked to read of posters on here who have been injured in horse related accidents but haven't then taken professional advice. At least discuss it with a "no win. no fee" solicitor over the telephone as there is no commitment, it's free, and you don't have to take their advice.

I'm reminded of the woman who hired a chain saw and then ran it through her foot. She sued the hire company -- and won! The court ruled that the hire firm should have given the woman instruction on the use of the saw. Crazy but true.

When checking out someone who wanted to purchase a pony from me, I found they ran a trekking business and had been taken to court. Basically, a rider had hired a horse and gone on one of their organised treks. She fell off and was injured. She successfully sued because the trek leader had got a little ahead and the rider's pony had speeded up to catch up and dislodged the rider.

Always insure, consult professionals (not newsgroups!), and leave it to the experts. You are not suing the individual but their insurance company, so leave emotion out of it.

It is really sad to read about the accidents and I hope you all get well soon. Those who haven't had an accident, please review your insurance!
 
Recently I looked into employers liability insurance, I am not a business I just needed some help with my ponies. If someone is not self employed you have to provide employers liability insurance and it is expensive, the lowest quote was £500 to cover someone 16 hours a week, some quotes were nearly £1000.
If you have an accident at work there should be an Accident book to write anything in and serious injuries are reported to the Health and Safety executive, if anyone is interested I can probably send then the links to the legislation. You employer should also do risk assesments for their insurance and they should have these available. Your employers insurance company will not let them admit liability but that does not mean you have a valid claim, so if you have been injured at work please make a claim that is what it is there for.
I spent most of my early years riding other peoples ponies as my parents could not afford to buy one for me or could I afford lessons and I fell off a lot but was never injured. It would be a shame if people could never have that opportunity again for the fear of being sued. I would never get on a horse unless I seen it ridden by them and I would have to asses the risk myself, I would always think why do they want me to ride it? It seems the general thing that no one lets you ride a good horse they only have no time for the naughty ones.
I think in any insurance claim you have to prove negligence and if the owner was negligent in not providing the right information then perhaps the claimant could be successful. I have a pony that barges out of the stable, when I put him out on loan it is written into the contract that he will do this and I also show the potential loaners the circumstance in which he will do this so they can asses whether they can cope with this behaviour, but there is always a first time an animal will do anything and you can not prepare for that except by experience.
 
TR i think your friend is pretty stuck. It doesnt sound like the owner will pay up if your friend took them to court anyway. If your friend lost the case she would end up in more debt, if she won it the amount of money awarded may end up on a payment plan, these can be as low as pence a week and at worst may never be paid - we are still waiting for an award from 2009 which is likely never to be paid

Your friend should be entitled to SSP surely

Without sounding like a total cow someone with a horse should be in the basic financial position of being able to cover the costs of a short period of time off work - this could easily have been your friend's filly that caused an accident.
 
This accident was in January and she has been out of work since.
She did have savings that payed the bills and rent she has paid, as well as hay, straw and fees ect for her fillies winter months.

She has insurance for her filly that covers her if her filly injured her.

It is taken on by a no win-no fee company. So even if she loses she pays nothing.
The way I see it is they wouldn't have taken on the claim if she didn't have a good case.

As for SSP. She has been fighting for this since the accident and does not qualify :/
I don't know the ins and outs of it. I just know she definitely doesn't.
 
Dry Rot said:
I don't think anyone has made the point that if you have someone come in VOLUNTARILY, without pay, to help with horses, by law, you need Employers Liability Insurance. At least, that is what I was advised and, yes, I do have it.

Second point, I am a bit shocked to read of posters on here who have been injured in horse related accidents but haven't then taken professional advice. At least discuss it with a "no win. no fee" solicitor over the telephone as there is no commitment, it's free, and you don't have to take their advice.

I'm reminded of the woman who hired a chain saw and then ran it through her foot. She sued the hire company -- and won! The court ruled that the hire firm should have given the woman instruction on the use of the saw. Crazy but true.

When checking out someone who wanted to purchase a pony from me, I found they ran a trekking business and had been taken to court. Basically, a rider had hired a horse and gone on one of their organised treks. She fell off and was injured. She successfully sued because the trek leader had got a little ahead and the rider's pony had speeded up to catch up and dislodged the rider.

Always insure, consult professionals (not newsgroups!), and leave it to the experts. You are not suing the individual but their insurance company, so leave emotion out of it.

It is really sad to read about the accidents and I hope you all get well soon. Those who haven't had an accident, please review your insurance!
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Just because you CAN sue does not mean you should or that you would want to. Some of the examples above demonstrate just that!

The world is becoming a worse place because we are increasingly litigious. People are afraid to do things because of being sued. No one takes responsibility for their own actions.

I am not saying people should never bring claims but people should think long and hard about whether they feel it is right to do so.

You are absolutely 100% wrong to say that a claimant is suing the insurance company and not the individual. This is an increasingly common misconception and it is an attitude which encourages spurious claims.

When bringing a claim you also need to remember that, whilst the insurers may bear the financial responsibility (that is assuming there is suitable cover in place) the person being sued will not simply be left out of it and is likely to find the whole experience stressful and unpleasant no matter how good their insurers, solicitors and barrister are.

Cases involving animals in particular are complex and the Animals Act is a particularly tricky piece of legislation which can lead to judgments which are perceived as unfair. The high risk can mean that claims may be bought off rather than defended, but equally it can become a point of principle for an animal owner being sued and may be defended to trial in spite of the risks.
 
Tabula Rasa said:
It is taken on by a no win-no fee company. So even if she loses she pays nothing.
The way I see it is they wouldn't have taken on the claim if she didn't have a good case.
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Not necessarily. She has probably been referred to a solicitor by an accident management company. The solicitors will make their own assessment throughout the life of the claim as to whether it is likely to succeed. I doubt in the early stages they have enough information to consider likely prospects.
 
And this is why I don't let anyone else ride my horses, they say they are experienced most of the time you find they are not, they may know how to get on but very little else about the Aids or grooming and mucking out.
 
Yes you I was badly injured trying a horse .
After the fall the seller made several statements that could have lead to a court deciding they where negligent .
Two separate barristers reviewed the case and said they would not have a leg to stand on so to speak ( in fact that was me that no leg to stand on)
On reflection I took the desision it was not the route I wanted to take.
 
Sorry, but this subject REALLY grinds my gears! Everyone know that horses are flight animals, horse riding is a RISK sport, they have their own brains and anyone that owns a horse knows that no matter how much you trust your horse, they are unpredictable animals!

I went competing last night with my two horses, one goes crazy when the other is out of sight so can't just stay on the trailer or tied up, mum couldn't make it on time so I enlisted the help of two experienced friends (I would never ask a novice or non horsey person to handle any of my horses) I told them she gets stressed and may fidgit/stamp and whinny, they understood and took care. Reading this makes it sound like just asking friends to hold my horse for 30 minutes means I need employers liability insurance! I'm sorry, but I'm not spending £500 for my friend to hold my horse for 30 minutes once in a blue moon!

This suing culture is awful.
 
Have read this with interest and its a worrying state of affairs for the world we live in. I was always under the impression that so long as the rider was informed of their own capabilities and the traits of the horse that as an owner one would be covered, as every day one takes a risk getting on their own horses and dealing with them. Had a similar incident a fair few years back while selling a notorious bucker. Prospective buyer was told many time pony could buck and to ensure her child could manage it. Child fell off, broke her collar bone and we received a solicitors letter threatening to sue for damages. Insurance company basically laughed it off and we were found not liable as we're completely honest about the pony.

Anyhow, what is the world coming to? It frightens me really, next time The husband annoys me, hell lets just sue him for moaning about me smelling of wee, the straw and mud in the kitchen and saddle soap stains in my hair. No then, is that possible? Hmmmmm.
 
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There is a big difference between riding as part of your job and riding for fun. Professionals should have personal accident and loss of income insurance (all professionals who work around horses, including farriers, physios, etc) and anyone who employs others to work with horses should have employer's liability insurance. Claims are complicated by how the courts interpret the circumstances surrounding the duty of care and the possible negligence of all parties involved, but insurance should be a part of any business plan.

The legal situation with regards to private individuals is complicated as the courts have tended to come to different interpretations on different cases. A while ago some unknown persons openned a gate, letting loose a horse who eventually colided with a car and killed the driver. The owner of the horse was held strictly liable for the damage. On the other hand, recently a potential buyer described herself as very experienced and rode a horse declared to be difficult, and failed to win compensation for her injuries on the grounds that she knew the risk she was taking. It's an area that requires legal clarification and I don't think anyone knows how things will get decided unless they take the risk of going to court - which is why insurance companies prefer to settle.
 
steph91 said:
Once had a girl tried to sue us, after falling off one of our youngsters and hurt her shoulder. She was our groom at the time (1 strike silly, trying to sue your boss) My dad was paying her sick wages already (2nd strike silly, she would not of gotten compensation) Dad stopped paying sick wages as she was suing him (no income for her) she then lost her job (she left of her own accord) as my dad carried the grudge that she had tried to sue him, when he was paying her sick leave anyway.
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:( Your dad did not do her a favour by paying her sick leave, she was legally entitled to it. You are lucky she did not sue your dad for constructive dismissal, it sounds like he behaved very unprofessionally 'carrying a grudge' against his employee!
 
Amy567 said:
Sorry, but this subject REALLY grinds my gears! Everyone know that horses are flight animals, horse riding is a RISK sport, they have their own brains and anyone that owns a horse knows that no matter how much you trust your horse, they are unpredictable animals!

I went competing last night with my two horses, one goes crazy when the other is out of sight so can't just stay on the trailer or tied up, mum couldn't make it on tiYme so I enlisted the help of two experienced friends (I would never ask a novice or non horsey person to handle any of my horses) I told them she gets stressed and may fidgit/stamp and whinny, they understood and took care. Reading this makes it sound like just asking friends to hold my horse for 30 minutes means I need employers liability insurance! I'm sorry, but I'm not spending £500 for my friend to hold my horse for 30 minutes once in a blue moon!

This suing culture is awful.
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You don't need employers cover to get a friend to hold your horse you need third party liability cover.
But in circunmtances where you have been negligent it not unreasonable for the law to hold you liable.
It is certainly not the same world I grew up in .
I choose not to sue for the life changing injury I suffered ( I don't want to go into details here ) because I felt its not the right thing to do however I was able that from the the cushion of an income large enough to absord the fairly large costs this accident has put on us for ever .
And that's not even taking into account the suffering and pain .
Others might have been able to afford to think that way , If I had been working for instance I would have lost my employment most people don't have luxury of going its just one of those things in that situation.
 
Bucks Fizz said:
Just because you CAN sue does not mean you should or that you would want to. Some of the examples above demonstrate just that!

The world is becoming a worse place because we are increasingly litigious. People are afraid to do things because of being sued. No one takes responsibility for their own actions.

I am not saying people should never bring claims but people should think long and hard about whether they feel it is right to do so.

You are absolutely 100% wrong to say that a claimant is suing the insurance company and not the individual. This is an increasingly common misconception and it is an attitude which encourages spurious claims.

When bringing a claim you also need to remember that, whilst the insurers may bear the financial responsibility (that is assuming there is suitable cover in place) the person being sued will not simply be left out of it and is likely to find the whole experience stressful and unpleasant no matter how good their insurers, solicitors and barrister are.

Cases involving animals in particular are complex and the Animals Act is a particularly tricky piece of legislation which can lead to judgments which are perceived as unfair. The high risk can mean that claims may be bought off rather than defended, but equally it can become a point of principle for an animal owner being sued and may be defended to trial in spite of the risks.
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Bucks Fizz, I couldn't agree more with you. I have been on the receiving end of litigation for something that was entirely the other persons fault (By her own admission at the time of the accident) it is indeed a very stressful process to go through and a very personal thing. I think morally, people have to take a long hard look at themselves before they enter the litigation process, and at least put themselves in the other person shoes for a moment and ask if they would be happy about being sued if the shoe was on the other foot? Sadly as many have said, we are living in a society where people are terrified of being sued and I often ask myself why people just can't take responsibility for their own actions. Horses are unpredictable and anyone who handles or rides them has to accept this.
 
Goldenstar said:
Horses being unprediticable does not mean an owner can't be negligent .
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In certain circumstances yes I agree. For example if I had a horse that was a known rearer say, and I allowed somebody to ride that horse without revealing that fact and an accident took place involving rearing, I would accept I had been negligent and hold my hand up, but if the horse was usually well mannered etc., and an accident occurred, then no I would not agree I was negligent as this is where the unpredictable nature of horses has to be taken into account surely? It seems to me that as a previous poster suggested, how about we all just refuse to ride or help with anyone else's horses and that way , hopefully no risk of being sued? I,m sure in time though, the leeches that are 'no win, no fee', lawyers, would find another very lucrative source of income at someone else's expense and misery!!
 
But negligence does come into it. Another recent case had an employee suing for an accident that happened when she did not follow the employer's instructions. She was told to walk the horse on a particular route, but she cantered it on another (downhill) route and fell off. The court found in favour of the employer.
 
Its actually such a mine field that it scary, for those of you that may remember a few weeks ago about a post for prospective buyers trying another horse first, this is my biggest fear of being sued whilst trying the horse I am selling. One can only do so much to protect themselves without accepting liability unintentionally. Say for instance by wearing a 'caution young horse tabard' automatically accepting that said horse may play up. When does it stop? Know going slightly off track mind but at times I feel like we should all be wrapped up in cotton wool. Riding schools are the same, long gone are the days when we would canter bareback in headcollars to bring the ponies in from the fields or go apple bobbing for fear of spreading germs. Our local riding school is being crippled by insurance costs because of the let's sue everybody mentality that those have for minor injuries, ie) a broken toe from being stood on!
 
When selling a horse you need to be completely honest about what the horse does you need to produce the horse on the day in the safest way possible .
Your trail facilities must be suitable and safe.
Selling horses is difficult the court would look at what you did agaisnt what could be said to be the normal good pracise and they would also look at what the buyer did too.
And if you have third party liability you are covered if it all goes wrong so although it would be a deeply unpleasant experiance it would not cost you your home in a worse case senario.
 
I suspect people are forgetting that in a lot of cases that claims against them are not 'personal' i.e. that it's not somebody that you considered a friend/colleague/employee that is leading the issue.

For example, if I was injured on somebodies horse (for whatever reason) and I had to take time off and have treatment I would claim from my private medical and accident, sickness and unemployment (ASU) policies. That's what they're there for isn't it? The problem is that the minute I claim from them their small print allows them to act IN MY NAME to recover some or all of their costs if another person can be proved negligent. What should you do in those circumstances - not claim on the policies that you pay for just in case the horse owner is caught up in the claim and might have their actions scrutinised? I know very few people who can afford to do that. I'm not talking about bumps and bruises type injuries here but ones that leave people off work or have ongoing medical costs. Remember that even the NHS will claim their costs back from a car insurer for instance if you are injured in a crash as will your local council if, in the same crash you damage the street furniture! It's just the way the system works.

Employers are a different kettle of fish altogether. There are various laws that don't give them options regarding their responsibilities to employees and their need to have specific insurance to protect them financially. Where a lot of small businesses fall down is that they find themselves unintentionally uninsured because they don't see the need to comply with the conditions that their insurance companies impose on them regarding risk assessments, safety signs, proper training and so on for their staff. As a result when there is an accident they contact the ins co and are told that they can't claim - not because the staff member isn't entitled (yes entitled, even though that word will make people froth :rolleyes:) but because they didn't follow the correct procedures they are now legally personally liable. I have very little sympathy for employers in those cases - it's not difficult in the internet age to find out what you need to do and how to do it well.

When it comes to people riding a 'personal' horse it is relatively easy to protect yourself. Know what your insurance covers, read the small print. When you are loaning/sharing a horse don't let them on without seeing a copy of their rider insurance. Take a photo of it your phone, only takes a second. When selling, send an email with received and read receipts (or even a text) stating any quirks and the level of rider experience required. Just a little forethought means that while you still might be sued you now have a good defence against any claim.

Yes, in a lot of ways it is wrong that you can be held responsible for some of the things that horses do as we all know that they are large unpredictable animals but the fact is that you can be and people need to be aware of the possibility.
 
The wife said:
Its actually such a mine field that it scary, for those of you that may remember a few weeks ago about a post for prospective buyers trying another horse first, this is my biggest fear of being sued whilst trying the horse I am selling. One can only do so much to protect themselves without accepting liability unintentionally. Say for instance by wearing a 'caution young horse tabard' automatically accepting that said horse may play up. When does it stop? Know going slightly off track mind but at times I feel like we should all be wrapped up in cotton wool. Riding schools are the same, long gone are the days when we would canter bareback in headcollars to bring the ponies in from the fields or go apple bobbing for fear of spreading germs. Our local riding school is being crippled by insurance costs because of the let's sue everybody mentality that those have for minor injuries, ie) a broken toe from being stood on!
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I commented on that thread and remember saying that you were doing the right thing in trying to keep people safe - once you put procedures in place you have a defence if anyone is injured and in the worse case scenario your insurance would pay out. Hopefully your precautions would mean that any injuries wouldn't happen anyway. In fact, that's the reason for H&S rules - to avoid anything other than true unforseen accidents...

If a RS or similar business has done all their paperwork and actually put in place the procedures that the risk assessments flag up as potentially dangerous they will find that that a client suing them has no case i.e. if somebody has a broken toe they weren't wearing the proper boots that they were told must be worn around the horses when they signed a disclaimer on their first visit to the RS.

And while I was a kid many, many years ago who cantered ponies bareback I was also a kid that spent a lot of time in casualty because I fell off a lot :) That's fine because my parents accepted responsibility for me and my rubbish riding. RS need to make parents responsible for their children again and make it clear that children are only allowed to do the 'riskier' bareback canters etc if the parents give permission in writing. It's a pain but manageable and just one of those things you have to do especially if you are taking peoples money for a service.
 
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