Can you successfully sue someone if you take a fall from their horse?

A friend of mine recently replied to an advert for an very experienced rider seeking horse to ride and explained to the girl (well she was 18) that he was not in any way a novice ride, was spooky and also had not been ridden for a while.

The girl said she was very experienced, used to riding thoroughbreds which 'never have all four feet on the ground at any one time) and that this would not be a problem and she would 'enjoy the challenge'.

She came to try him, my friend lunged him first in front of the girl (as he had not been ridden for a couple of weeks) and then rode him. He was naughty on the lunge but was ok when my friend rode him.

The girl got on and rode him nicely in walk and trot, asked him to canter and to cut a long story short he had her off, ambulance called etc. She had apprently badly bruised her back.

My friend had BHS insurance and they are dealing with the claim but they have also involved her Household Insurers to get them to pay half of the claim if it comes to fruition. My friend had taken out the BHS insurance so any relevant claims could be dealt with under this but it will still go to her Household insurers to contribute and affect her premium. Seems a bit pointless her having the BHS insurance!

Anyway, even though the girl admitted it was her fault and she should not have cantered him, she is still likely to get a pay out - even though my friend had advised he had been known to buck, rear on occasion and was not a novice ride. In my opinion she shouldnt really have let anyone get on the horse in the first place, but as the girl said she was so experienced and my friend needed the help.....lesson learnt........

Please be mindful of this when letting anyone ride your horse, every one is always friends until an incident happens and when money is concerned.....
 
Think about it from the rider's point of view. They have no income for X weeks/months. They will need to find the money to live somewhere. It would be perfectly logical for them to claim from either their own injury insurance or that of the horse owner's. If the accident was caused by the horse i'd probably do the same to be honest - saves the rider's insurance premiums from going up.

I don't see the fuss...?
 
I don't doubt you could in todays world.

I would however be extremely miffed [for a nicer word] if someone had the cheek to try and sue me for them falling off my horse, when I'd be letting them kindly be able to ride him in the first place!

Also another reason why no-one uninsured gets on my horse :) Likewise for me also, I have my rider insurance.
 
Going back to Kirsty - I don't believe your boss and would follow the advice on the board as to getting compensation. Re read Janet Georges posts again for clarification.

As to having loss of earnings cover - great idea, but its HORRENDOUSLY expensive. My brother wanted me to do this, and logically I should -but the bill was too much. I have covered myself through work anyway now.

And guys - don't assume your own personal policy will automatically allow another rider to benefit from it if they ride your horse with your permission. As I said previously, my liabililty insurance from NFU covers me if either of my horses hurts or damages anyone, but when asked, they were at pains to stress that it does NOT cover anyone riding them with my permissions. So check your policy!
 
Zirach said:
My friend had BHS insurance and they are dealing with the claim but they have also involved her Household Insurers to get them to pay half of the claim if it comes to fruition. My friend had taken out the BHS insurance so any relevant claims could be dealt with under this but it will still go to her Household insurers to contribute and affect her premium. Seems a bit pointless her having the BHS insurance!
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You don't 'take out' BHS insurance - you JOIN the BHS and the insurance that is included for members is ONE of the benefits. BUT - BHS insurance (and BD, BE, BRC etc etc etc insurance) is insurance 'of last resort'! What that means is you are covered by the BHS insurance if you have NO other cover. IF you have other cover that you can claim on - household, horse policy that includes PL etc - then the BHS insurers will work with those other insurers and 'share' the claim. This helps keep costs down for everyone.
 
kirstie said:
Shortly after I got home from hospital my boss phoned me and told me he had spoken to his insurance company and that a claim could not be made for me.
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Your boss is a liar - OR he doesn't HAVE Employer Liability Insurance (in which case he's just a common old law-breaker!) IF he only has Public Liability insurance, then he is correct that THAT insurance won't cover HIM for any claim you make.

But let's get this straight! It is not his insurance company you have to persuade to handle your claim - that's HIS problem. YOUR claim is against HIM - and if he doesn't have the right insurance - and you win your claim - he could lose his house, his business, and ALL his assets (if necessary) to settle your claim. It is a legal requirement that employers carry a MINIMUM of £5 million of insurance - although if they put their employees in high risk situations (like backing horses - or looking after lions!) then they'd be smart to have £10 million or more.

The Health & Safety Executive has responsibility for enforcing the LAW about employer liability insurance. They can fine employers up to £2,500 per DAY for every day that the employer is uninsured. They can also fine the employer £1,000 for failing to display their Certificate of Insurance!

There ARE some exemptions for Employer Liability - if the employer ONLY employs close members of his family in a family business - or ONLY employs freelance staff. But if you're receiving wages or salary .... he's up the proverbial creek without a paddle!!

That's why he is an IDIOT (as well as a possible law-breaker!)
 
Not knowing all the facts, I'd say probably not (although my degree is in Scots Law rather than English!) Liability is generally based on causation and reasonable foreseeability. IF she knew the horse was a bit of a handful before she got on it, then she probably wouldn't be able to sue as she was aware of the risk and chose to take it anyway. If, however (as JanetGeorge said), the horse's temperant was in some way misrepresented to her, then she might have a case.
 
I am surprised that the NFU said they would pay out. I was talking to my NFU lady who said that they fought and won a claim brought by someone on foot holding a gate for the field out hunting and one kicked out and caught him in the chest. He was quite seriously injured but lost his claim.

However, I am not sure if this was before or after that notorious court judgement. I thought there were negotitiations going on about this, but I supose the General Election got in the way and it has all been forgotten.
 
Once had a girl tried to sue us, after falling off one of our youngsters and hurt her shoulder. She was our groom at the time (1 strike silly, trying to sue your boss) My dad was paying her sick wages already (2nd strike silly, she would not of gotten compensation) Dad stopped paying sick wages as she was suing him (no income for her) she then lost her job (she left of her own accord) as my dad carried the grudge that she had tried to sue him, when he was paying her sick leave anyway.
 
I would say that if someone rides someone else's horse they do so at their own risk unless there was some type of negligence on the part of the horse's owner.

If the horse is known to be dangerous and the owner forgot to mention this, it might be argued this was negligence on the part of the owner.

However, the rider would have to prove that the horse was dangerous and the owner knew this, and didn't mention it. If the horse had thrown every rider every time they got on in the last 6 months and the owner didn't mention this or even told the rider the horse was safe then the rider they might have a case. If the horse throws an occasional buck but hasn't thrown every rider off then I think the rider would have a hard time suing.
 
Yes she can sue and the fact that she was 'invited to ride the horse' has implications.

The horses owner should contact her insurers immediately and if she is a Gold Member of the BHS she will be able to discuss this with a solicitor.

All very unfortunate and demonstrates how important it is to have third party public liability insurance on each and every horse one owns. The legal case mentioned in the posts above demonstrated that Third Party Public liability insurance cover to £10,000,000 is required so always check that you are getting that level of cover.
 
Luci07 said:
..........And guys - don't assume your own personal policy will automatically allow another rider to benefit from it if they ride your horse with your permission. As I said previously, my liabililty insurance from NFU covers me if either of my horses hurts or damages anyone, but when asked, they were at pains to stress that it does NOT cover anyone riding them with my permissions. So check your policy!
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I would ask them to check that again...or do you get it cheaper for having rider only policy, mine covers anyone I give permission to ride my horses.

I have NFU insurance, have done for 12 years, I have claimed under both vets fees AND Public Liability (both seperate occasions).

When I claimed for PL a friend WAS riding my horse, in fact she had my horse as a share with me, as this was my second horse. NFU took all the details of the rider and the driver of the car who my horse happened to 'nudge' whilst passing.

NFU paid out with NO questions, I only found out they paid up as I rang to find out or I would not have Known.

Could not fault them, one phone call, no stress, case settled, and I was not even the rider.
 
JanetGeorge said:
You don't 'take out' BHS insurance - you JOIN the BHS and the insurance that is included for members is ONE of the benefits. BUT - BHS insurance (and BD, BE, BRC etc etc etc insurance) is insurance 'of last resort'! What that means is you are covered by the BHS insurance if you have NO other cover. IF you have other cover that you can claim on - household, horse policy that includes PL etc - then the BHS insurers will work with those other insurers and 'share' the claim. This helps keep costs down for everyone.
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That is not how it is being sold and the BHS probably should be done by advertising standards. It is sold as your one stop shop for any horse related incident. I think I will now have to re assess my membership to the BHS as I am actually disgusted to read this.
 
dieseldog said:
That is not how it is being sold and the BHS probably should be done by advertising standards. It is sold as your one stop shop for any horse related incident. I think I will now have to re assess my membership to the BHS as I am actually disgusted to read this.
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Not how it reads to me. I was involved when the BHS changed insurers back in ... about 1998/1999 it must have been. It certainly wasn't THEN. So I went back and read the BHS site and membership benefits. No mention of it being a one stop shop or anything like. The facts given in the 'benefits' summary are completely accurate and it asks you to read the 'key terms' of the insurance. The key terms are given very clearly - and it is very good cover for the cost - even if you thought your WHOLE BHS membership sub was paying for insurance. It's not, of course - you get the magazine, the Handbook, a free legal helpline, a free tax and Vat helpline, discounts at the bookshop, etc. etc. etc. To buy 'stand alone' insurance at the levels of cover provided would cost WELL over £150.

Any and every insurance policy has its own terms and conditions - NO insurance policy is a one stop shop!!

My various liability policies (for a small stud and training yard) cost me about £2,200 a year - they have terms and conditions too - and exclusions!!
 
QR

Blimey - this thread is a bit scary!!! My instructor (also a very good friend) took a bad fall from Ellie one day during a grid work session - she did nothing wrong except peck on landing, and he landed on his feet and snapped both his leg bones :eek: He was out of the saddle for about 8/9 months due to numerous operations, and had to pass his HOYS ride over to another pro rider :eek: Luckily for us, he never even mentioned the possibility of suing - and it didnt even cross our minds. We're just lucky, I guess - especially in this day and age - that he's such a nice, reasonable and rational guy!!!
 
_MizElz_ said:
QR

Luckily for us, he never even mentioned the possibility of suing - and it didnt even cross our minds. We're just lucky, I guess - especially in this day and age - that he's such a nice, reasonable and rational guy!!!
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Luck might not have had anything to do with it!:D If he's a SENSIBLE professional, he would have had his own personal accident insurance, probably including loss of earnings. Being your instructor, there would have been no question of him claiming you misled him about the horse's ability, he chose to ride it knowing it might be a clumsy sod ;) (or make a simple mistake) and he does this for a living (presumably.) Unless he could prove negligence he would have limited chance of success.

Income replacement insurance is expensive - but ANYONE who freelances would be silly not to have it. There are limited 'benefits' for the self-employed when they can't work - and freelancers should set their charges to take the cost of such insurance into account.
 
Its high time all this sueing nonsense was stopped and the law changed to how it is now in the USA. You sign a disclamer if you are doing something dangerous to say YOU understand the risks and have your own insurance...
 
My thoughts are similar to most on this. Generally if you get on a horse it is your responsibility! I would not dream of suing someone who had let me ride their horse. Also at one time I used to help others out and get on nappy horses or buckers. I don't do it anymore too old and frail :D But wouldn't dream of suing them if I came off, even if they had not told me all the facts (often the case)

Next thing we know they will be suing for psychological damage if a horse scares them:eek:

However I once went looking for a horse for a very nervous novice and was very clear about this to potential vendors. One horse bolted, so badly it nearly jumped out of the field we were in, I had to bail out as I could see if it did go over the fence there was a huge drain cover where it would land. I wasn't risking landing on that! Horse did stop but so late I would have been catapulted over its head anyway. Typically owner said 'oh its never done that before'
Next one was for loan, as soon as I took it in the school it reared full up with me and I got off by slipping off the side.

Turns out both of these people knew the horses had problems YET still would let my nervous very novicy friend take them. They ARE the sort of people that should be sued!! Of course the thought didn't even enter my head. They probably were not insured anyway lol

Kirstie I too think you should look at claiming off employers insurance. Don't think of it as suing just claiming like you would on your car insurance if someone stole your car as I think it is totally different than riding someone's horse for the pleasure of it.
If you worked in a factory and a faulty piece of equipment had been the cause of your injury you wouldn't even think about it you would just do it!!

Hope it all gets sorted for all concerned
 
JanetGeorge said:
Not how it reads to me. I was involved when the BHS changed insurers back in ... about 1998/1999 it must have been. It certainly wasn't THEN. So I went back and read the BHS site and membership benefits. No mention of it being a one stop shop or anything like. The facts given in the 'benefits' summary are completely accurate and it asks you to read the 'key terms' of the insurance. The key terms are given very clearly - and it is very good cover for the cost - even if you thought your WHOLE BHS membership sub was paying for insurance. It's not, of course - you get the magazine, the Handbook, a free legal helpline, a free tax and Vat helpline, discounts at the bookshop, etc. etc. etc. To buy 'stand alone' insurance at the levels of cover provided would cost WELL over £150.

Any and every insurance policy has its own terms and conditions - NO insurance policy is a one stop shop!!

My various liability policies (for a small stud and training yard) cost me about £2,200 a year - they have terms and conditions too - and exclusions!!
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You are a buiness and it costs you that much. When we had a livery yard our insurance was £3k a year - that is what it costs.

I phoned the BHS up and they told me that I have £10m cover for any horse related incident anywhere in the world with no excess. Why are they lying to people on the phone? I also spoke to them in person at Badminton - and they still said the same thing. Do I even need this insurance if they are going to make me claim off my house insurance anyway? I don't want to use the PL insurance I have with the BS as it has a £1k excess, that is why I joined the BHS - its why lots of people join the BHS. This is serious misrepresentation which could have terrible consequences for someone.
 
kirstie said:
I am going to look into it. I made my feelings clear.

Shortly after I got home from hospital my boss phoned me and told me he had spoken to his insurance company and that a claim could not be made for me.

I don't know what to do really! I'm in a bit of a crappy situation and I don't want to make it worse. I would describe myself as a little bit emotionally vunerable at the moment!
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Oh hunny. I, and others, know this feeling only too well. Hugs.

I have only managed to hold onto my current client due to their understanding of my need to work from home, etc., though now the brace is off they expect me in every day. It's killing me off and making the recovery so much longer, etc., but needs must and all that stuff.

'Needs must' - those are the words you need to hold onto.

The employer has insurance to cover this. From what you have written, you will not be going back there (forgive me if I've misunderstood that part), so will not be facing any pee'd off employers, but whilst it may affect their future premiums did they show this level of concern for you that you are showing for them? If they had you would not be in this situation.

Mine was my own stupid fault (do not jump when ill!!!). Nobody made me get on.

Yours is different. You did what your boss told you to do, despite your pointing out that it wasn't safe. I guess that a point blank refusal on your behalf would have seen the end of your employment, so between a rock and a hard place.
 
Sorry, slightly off tangent, but just seen what people are paying for studs/training/teaching/etc. and I think it's quite reasonable...

As a consultant (business type), I pay almost £1k per year in Professional Indemnity Insurance and Public Liability Insurance. No premises as such (an office at home, but I don't have clients visit). I handle large deals (up to £500m), but because I am not an employee of the client's company, I only advise, I do not make the final decisions without someone elses say so.
 
If you share, for example, aren't you supposed to get your own insurance for this very reason? My insurance covers other riders who have permission to ride my horse so I suppose they could sue me: dunno.
 
i havent read all the posts too many but if this horse was a known handful and rider got on and fell off her own fault and we can all agree you fall off horses even the saintest of horses i wouldnt sue anyone whos horse i fell off who i knew well and would be at my own risk i would however, never up my riding ability to ride a horse ,i have a 4yo i would never ride someone elses 4yo though !
Did know a case of a lady who was a soliciter years ago about ten years rode a dealers horse and it spooked and she fell off broke her arm she sued and got 3k dont know ins and outs though .If i was buying/viewing a quiet horse i would want to see rode first and possible a friend/relative/instructer of my own before i would asses safe for me to ride ,but that woyuld be my choice to ride .If i was in doubts id walk away.If owner wouldnt ride, id walk away .
I SUPPOSE IF YOU WORK IN A DEALERS/BREAKERS/COMPETITION YARD sorry about caps its part and parcel of job i think sorryx
 
This whole issue is a total nightmare as what it means is that one has to ensure that anyone riding ones horse has got sufficient insurance cover so that in the event of a mishap they are covered.

What Janet George stated was very sensible. People who ride other peoples horses as part of their work insurance should of course have income replacement insurance so that in the event of an accident they are covered.

I would aslo suggest that before allowing anyone else to ride your horse make sure that they have their own insurance policies which cover them to a sufficient level and I would suggest that when selling a horse and allowing someone to ride it then again make sure that the person riding it has got insurance cover in the event of an accident.
 
As an owner I believe I am liable for any misdemeanors my horse performs so I rarely let anyone else ride him and I have always had insurance to cover both of us.

But if some idiot thinks they can just get on him without my permission I hope he does react and dump them and I would be very happy to go to court and explain that my horse was severely traumatised and he doesn't speak english. Horses are known to be unpredictable and lastly I would ask the judge if someone stole his car and drove it up and down his rode and crashed it does that make him (the judge ) liable just because he is the owner?

If you own a horse and if you agree to let someone else ride it you have a duty to be honest and tell about it's quirks and dislikes but likewise a rider should be honest about their capabilities and if they are not and have a fall it is their own fault.
 
dieseldog said:
I phoned the BHS up and they told me that I have £10m cover for any horse related incident anywhere in the world with no excess. Why are they lying to people on the phone? I also spoke to them in person at Badminton - and they still said the same thing. Do I even need this insurance if they are going to make me claim off my house insurance anyway? I don't want to use the PL insurance I have with the BS as it has a £1k excess, that is why I joined the BHS - its why lots of people join the BHS. This is serious misrepresentation which could have terrible consequences for someone.
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You DO have £10 million cover anywhere in the world with no excess. No-one has lied to you. (And I should add I no longer work for the BHS - nor am I even a member anymore.)

Whatever insurance you have for ANYTHING there are always 'deals' done between different insurers who may share liability. All that matters to YOU is that you are covered! So if your Household Policy covers you for - say - up to £5 Million - but with an excess, the BHS insurance may pay your excess and do a deal with the other insurers to share the balance. There is NO misrepresentation - and you get VERY good cover from the BHS insurance at minimum cost!
 
I have a query about this topic, it's a very interesting one at that!

A friend of mine has recently been injured by another woman's horse and has had to result in making a claim.
The friend does not own a rideable horse as she only owns a rising 2 filly. She was grooming and pampering her filly when a woman asked her to help bring her horses in. After being asked twice she went to help, on going with her to help she was told which of the two horses to bring in.
As she put the larger of the two in its stable (as instructed) the horse turned and barged out of the stable. Knocking my friend over and trampling her. She was taken to the accident ermergany department at the local hospital and suffered very bruised organs. She has 6 weeks off work (and did not qualify for sick pay) and because of her work contract and her hours given to someone else while she was off sick she had very little if no hours work and lived off pennies.
She is at the point where she will have to sell her filly as she can't afford to keep it. She had to leave accommodation as she couldn't pay 2 months rent. She owes many other bills(phone bill etc). All because of this accident.
Now for her to be able to keep her filly and pay off all this dept she has been advised to make a claim.

Luckily she is starting a new job and moving her filly to another yard.
However there were no witnesses only the owner and my friend.
The owner is not the type of person to have insurance either or pay any money out for legal fees.

So does anyone know what could happen?
If losing her filly and being in so much dept wasn't at stake I don't think she would be going ahead with this. It is a last resort for her.

Thanks for any info on this sort of thing.
 
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