Cannot believe it is not illegal for horses to be sold to slaughterhouses!

[brigantia]

Sirenna and others, here is a direct quote and link from Cathy Atkinson on her Fugly Blog firmly stating her position on equine slaughter. Her statement is in the comments if you scroll down from the entry:

http://fuglyblog.com/?p=2722&cpage=1#comment-91456

Her quote, which she gave me permission to repost:

I support, 100%, the ban on equine slaughter in the United States. I do not oppose veterinary euthanasia of horses for which no decent home can be found. I also do not oppose euthanasia via gunshot by a person who knows how to do it correctly, at the horse’s home. I would like to see a ban on ANY transport of horses in double-deckers, and I would like to see restrictions put in place that would make it financially not sensible to send horses to Canada or Mexico for slaughter, including testing for the presence of drugs not allowed in animals for human consumption.

Feel free to repost that!

Oh, and I blame THE ECONOMY and IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE for horse welfare issues.

 

[SirenaXVI]

Sirenna and others, here is a direct quote and link from Cathy Atkinson on her Fugly Blog firmly stating her position on equine slaughter. Her statement is in the comments if you scroll down from the entry:

http://fuglyblog.com/?p=2722&cpage=1#comment-91456

Her quote, which she gave me permission to repost:

I support, 100%, the ban on equine slaughter in the United States. I do not oppose veterinary euthanasia of horses for which no decent home can be found. I also do not oppose euthanasia via gunshot by a person who knows how to do it correctly, at the horse’s home. I would like to see a ban on ANY transport of horses in double-deckers, and I would like to see restrictions put in place that would make it financially not sensible to send horses to Canada or Mexico for slaughter, including testing for the presence of drugs not allowed in animals for human consumption.

Feel free to repost that!

Oh, and I blame THE ECONOMY and IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE for horse welfare issues.

I think you will find that Fugly is against horses travelling to Mexico/Canada via the killer buyers. You say that you 100% support the US ban, so do what do you think it has achieved in the terms of equine welfare? I am curious to know, as, as far as I can see, the ban has caused
far more suffering.

 

[AmyMay]

You say that you 100% support the US ban, so do what do you think it has achieved in the terms of equine welfare? I am curious to know, as, as far as I can see, the ban has caused far more suffering.

Exactly. It's actually beyond comprehension that anyone could be opposed to a registered and regulated facillity once you see what's going on in the States and as a result Mexico.

 

[Brandy]

I have bought horses and ponies from sales. I never paid very much for them (pittance really) and have always kept them. I currently have one that I have had for 12 years, another out on loan, and another doing 'conservation grazing' as she was a bit wild. I didn;t buy from the meat man so not sure that I am perpetuating a causing a problem with my 'rescue' efforts. I no longer go to sales though, as I can;t take any more.

It IS down to the breeding. Well respected native pony breeders included - 10 newly weaned foals to the hunt kennels becuase they had no buyers? Don't effing well breed them then!

Its an emotive subject, I like many don't like the idea of horse salughter but MUCh less like the idea of neglect.

All of mine have a home for life and will be PTS if I can no longer provide for them.

 

[Black_Horse_White]

I'm sorry but I disagree with the statement that what about cows & sheep. Horses are part of our history, they worked down the pits on the farms & were used for transport. Not to mention pulling barges along our canal networks. I think they helped us become what we are today so therefore should be protected by us. We've discarded them now they are no longer useful. So I know let's start eating them.

 

[Amaranta]

I'm sorry but I disagree with the statement that what about cows & sheep. Horses are part of our history, they worked down the pits on the farms & were used for transport. Not to mention pulling barges along our canal networks. I think they helped us become what we are today so therefore should be protected by us. We've discarded them now they are no longer useful. So I know let's start eating them.

Umm I don't think anyone is saying that we should all en mass start eating horses. what people are, quite rightly saying, is that ALL domesticated animals should be treated with respect, we owe EVERY animal in our care this respect not just horses!

Anyway that is not the argument, the argument is over horse slaughter!

 

[Amaranta]

Sirenna and others, here is a direct quote and link from Cathy Atkinson on her Fugly Blog firmly stating her position on equine slaughter. Her statement is in the comments if you scroll down from the entry:

http://fuglyblog.com/?p=2722&cpage=1#comment-91456

Her quote, which she gave me permission to repost:

I support, 100%, the ban on equine slaughter in the United States. I do not oppose veterinary euthanasia of horses for which no decent home can be found. I also do not oppose euthanasia via gunshot by a person who knows how to do it correctly, at the horse’s home. I would like to see a ban on ANY transport of horses in double-deckers, and I would like to see restrictions put in place that would make it financially not sensible to send horses to Canada or Mexico for slaughter, including testing for the presence of drugs not allowed in animals for human consumption.

Feel free to repost that!

Oh, and I blame THE ECONOMY and IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE for horse welfare issues.

Can't get the link to work

 

[Queenbee]

I'm sorry but I disagree with the statement that what about cows & sheep. Horses are part of our history, they worked down the pits on the farms & were used for transport. Not to mention pulling barges along our canal networks. I think they helped us become what we are today so therefore should be protected by us. We've discarded them now they are no longer useful. So I know let's start eating them.

cows, sheep and pigs are part of our history too, fine, predominantly they have been used for food but pigs have been used to hunt for truffles, sheep have been shawn for their wool, horses, yes have worked down the pits and helped with ploughing, barges and transport, but all that is part of 'industry' not pet keeping.

There is a place for slaughter, it's not a perfect world but its a lot better than other alternatives.

 

[navaho]

cows, sheep and pigs are part of our history too, fine, predominantly they have been used for food but pigs have been used to hunt for truffles, sheep have been shawn for their wool, horses, yes have worked down the pits and helped with ploughing, barges and transport, but all that is part of 'industry' not pet keeping.

There is a place for slaughter, it's not a perfect world but its a lot better than other alternatives.

Totally agree with this, & to be honest whether we like this idea of slaughter or not sadly there is a need for it.

 

[pigsmight:)]

Its a really difficult and highly emotive subject isnt it, whilst i am not against humane slaughter as lets be honest there are far too many unwanted horses.. it is a shame to think that nice young horses dont get a chance

I actually bought a horse from this sale when your little guy went through, a verry sweet little pony may i add and im glad that he has a chance and the best of luck with him, we bought 16.3hh worth of big orange 6yr old sports horse i imagine that he was probably be hedding in the same direction as your fella was.... he is v v green but has a lovely outlook on life i have no idea how he ended up at york sales and will probably never know anything about his past but at least he now will have a future

Just to add i dont think i rescued him i just saw a rough looking but nice young horse that i thought would probably do a job, i have helped him out and im sure he will help me out in the future.. i have got a bit of a thing for big orange horses
xxx

 

[Queenbee]

I think that basically it comes down to this:

We have all heard the saying: 'A fate worse than death', there are worse things than death, and whilst I am a softie at heart, it is a fact that a great deal of horses that end up going to slaughter are saved from that fate. Lets be sensible, we all know that the meat man is in it for profit, not to spare these horses, but that is life. I challenge anyone to say that if a horse is neglected and mistreated and pushed from pillar to post for the first 20 years of its life then ends up with a kind owner in the final years, that its first 20 years of suffering were worth that! I would far rather it be put down a lot sooner, it is infact far kinder, loving and more humane. There is also the argument for not wasting a perfectly good food source, or would you have us breed more typically meat source animals such as said pigs, cows and sheep, humanely put down a horse and just discard its remains.

 

[brigantia]

I think you will find that Fugly is against horses travelling to Mexico/Canada via the killer buyers. You say that you 100% support the US ban, so do what do you think it has achieved in the terms of equine welfare? I am curious to know, as, as far as I can see, the ban has caused
far more suffering.

Sirenna, please go back and read my post. That quote is from Cathy Atkinson, aka Fugly, not from me. That is her professed opinion and she has devoted her life to speaking out against the slaughter industry. It's not just Mexican slaughter that she condemns, as she has stated very explicitly.

What evidence do you have that a slaughter ban causes more suffering? Euthanasia exists for when a horse no longer has a good quality of life. If a person can't afford to give their horse a good death in familiar surroundings, I think that person can't actually afford the horse. Responsible ownership and breeding go a very long way in preventing welfare issues!

On the topic of differentiating horses from other livestock--most horses aren't raised as livestock and they often have drugs such as Bute in their systems which renders them unfit for human consumption. Does the slaughter house look at the passport to see which drugs have been administered? Bute is carcinogenic when consumed by humans in horsemeat.

Re the link to the Fugly blog--I think they were doing maintenance today. Hopefully the link will be working again soon.

 

[Amaranta]

Sirenna, please go back and read my post. That quote is from Cathy Atkinson, aka Fugly, not from me. That is her professed opinion and she has devoted her life to speaking out against the slaughter industry. It's not just Mexican slaughter that she condemns, as she has stated very explicitly.

What evidence do you have that a slaughter ban causes more suffering? Euthanasia exists for when a horse no longer has a good quality of life. If a person can't afford to give their horse a good death in familiar surroundings, I think that person can't actually afford the horse. Responsible ownership and breeding go a very long way in preventing welfare issues!

On the topic of differentiating horses from other livestock--most horses aren't raised as livestock and they often have drugs such as Bute in their systems which renders them unfit for human consumption. Does the slaughter house look at the passport to see which drugs have been administered? Bute is carcinogenic when consumed by humans in horsemeat.

Re the link to the Fugly blog--I think they were doing maintenance today. Hopefully the link will be working again soon.

I think you may have missed the point. I don't think people are 'pro' slaughter necessarily but do you actually realise what happens to the surplus US stock now that slaughter is banned there? Do you really think that ALL american owners have their horses put down at home? If this was indeed the case then Fugly would not have to save any horses from the 'killer' buyers. Why do you think they are called 'killer' buyers? What do you think happens to all the horses they buy, in, by the way, a country that has banned slaughter? How can you possibly think that there are no welfare issues????????????

 

[SirenaXVI]

Sirenna, please go back and read my post. That quote is from Cathy Atkinson, aka Fugly, not from me. That is her professed opinion and she has devoted her life to speaking out against the slaughter industry. It's not just Mexican slaughter that she condemns, as she has stated very explicitly.

What evidence do you have that a slaughter ban causes more suffering? Euthanasia exists for when a horse no longer has a good quality of life. If a person can't afford to give their horse a good death in familiar surroundings, I think that person can't actually afford the horse. Responsible ownership and breeding go a very long way in preventing welfare issues!

On the topic of differentiating horses from other livestock--most horses aren't raised as livestock and they often have drugs such as Bute in their systems which renders them unfit for human consumption. Does the slaughter house look at the passport to see which drugs have been administered? Bute is carcinogenic when consumed by humans in horsemeat.

Re the link to the Fugly blog--I think they were doing maintenance today. Hopefully the link will be working again soon.

Sirena - one n

What evidence that american horses are suffering more because of the ban?

Here - warning graphic and upsetting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

and here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjupLRciBi4

and here on the way to Mexico/Canada
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpVCBZAqR70
and here also on their way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEFJTUYOgOw
and here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUZSV2dHugM
and here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KBhaeOp2yA



Jesus! I cannot believe that you think this is OK? THIS IS A DIRECT RESULT OF THE BAN ON SLAUGHTER IN THE USA - it has made death much more painful for millions of horses, if you cannot see that then you are blind!

Yes, I would like to see all horses euthanised humanely at home, but I recognise that the slaughter house is a necessary evil, I would hate to see a ban in this country as then ALL our surplus would be shipped to France or Italy. At least in a British slaughterhouse they are treated calmly and humanely!

Why on earth do you think that cows, sheep, pigs and goats deserve lesser treatment than horses, in your blinkered fashion do you think they feel less pain? Why are they any less deserving of respect than the horse or the dog? They have also served us well throughout history.

There are none so blind than those who refuse to see.

 

[brigantia]

Sirenna, I believe that this is your sincerely held personal opinion, but I don't think you can prove that the US slaughter ban caused these issues. People dropping the ball on their horses caused these issues.

There's no evidence that horses didn't suffer just as much when horse slaughter in the US was still legal. I realize this is an emotive subject, but getting angry at people whose opinion differs from yours won't shed any light.

What about the presence of Bute and other meds in horses that makes their meat carcinogenic to humans? I think this differentiates horses from other livestock, as I have stated. All animals deserve to be treated with dignity but there's no actual reason why in 2011 we have to eat horses.

Worldwide, the demand for meat in general--not just horsemeat--appears to be declining. I heard on Radio 4 the other day that even McDonald's is losing market share to the less meat-centric Subway franchise. As world obesity rates and heart disease boom, people are turning away from excess consumption of animal protein for general health reasons. The slaughter industry might bottom out as demand wanes anyway.

 

[SirenaXVI]

Brigannttaa do the math, I will keep it simple so you can understand. The backyard breeders in the USA breed too many substandard horses that nobody wants to buy, now once upon a time those horses went to market, were bought by the killer buyers and were slaughtered fairly locally by a slaughterhouse which adhered to government standards on welfare.

Fast forward to a time when misguided individuals campaigned successfully for an end to slaughter in the USA. The backyard breeders continue to breed substandard horses that nobody wants to buy, they send them to market where they are bought by the killer buyers, they are then journeyed in appalling conditions to either Canada (if they are lucky) or Mexico where they use a KNIFE to sever the spinal cord, the animal is not stunned before this happens, death is not instantaneous and it can take several stabs of the knife for the poor traumatised animal to actually be paralysed enough not to feel anything, it then slowly bleeds to death. NOW tell me that there has not been any evidence of more suffering.

The only thing I can agree with you is that these breeders (and that includes those in the UK) need to be stopped from producing animals that they can neither keep nor sell. Since the ban on slaughter, they have not seen the error of their ways and none of them have the compassion to have animals that they are responsible for pts at home. This is FACT and it will never change until these people are hit in the pocket or put in front of a firing squad!

To be honest, I don't give a monkeys fart about the presence of Bute and other meds, that is what we have passports for, and, any horse taken to either of the slaughter houses in the UK has to have a passport, which IS checked before the horse is humanely put down by shotgun to the brain. If you have any firm evidence that this does not happen at either Turners or Potters then I would be glad to hear it.

I don't eat horsemeat but I do eat meat, I have no problem with people eating any meat, including horse. My concern is only that the animal has a nice life and a good death.

Also sorry but the demand for meat will not ever decline enough for the slaughter industry to wane, it may drop a little but will never ever go away.

 

[Maesfen]

Agree with Sirena completely. You have to thank heaven that our country is as small as it is so animals don't have to endure a huge journey in horrendous conditions and are treated with respect by the handlers too. America should hang its head in shame at what they are asking those horses to go through.

 

[AmyMay]

Friggin hell brigantia are you actually serious that the Mexico situation isn't as a result of US slaughter ban? I really am gobsmacked that you are either so misinformed, blinkered or dare I say plain stupid. Unbelievable!

 

[Amaranta]

Agree with Sirena completely. You have to thank heaven that our country is as small as it is so animals don't have to endure a huge journey in horrendous conditions and are treated with respect by the handlers too. America should hang its head in shame at what they are asking those horses to go through.

Well said!

 

[Spudlet]

People get so hooked up on slaughter, but it is very much a side issue. In fact, in some circumstances I would rather a horse be pts by an experienced slaughterman than by a vet, who may well have far less experience depending on their background, whether they specialise in horses and how long they have been doing the job.

The REAL issues are many - here are just three of them:
The long-distance transportation of horses to slaughter in Europe. When tens of thousands of horses are being carted from Poland, Romania, Lithuania, Latvia etc etc to Italy with no water, no rest, no food, injuries, disease, fear as many of them will never have been on a lorry before - THAT is an issue.

Overbreeding - when horses and ponies are bred for no good reason than 'oh my mare is unable to be ridden, so I'll put her in foal', 'foals are so cute, I want one', 'I'll make a quick buck here from this foal, who cares where it ends up' - THAT is an issue.

Irresponsible owners - 'My horse is old and can't be ridden, I don't want to keep it, I don't know anyone else that needs a companion, but I can't bear to think of having it pts so I'll loan it out to a complete stranger or sell it for a few quid and make sure I don't think of where it might end up lalalalalalala not thinking about it' - THAT is an issue.

There are LOTS of REAL problems in the horseworld, don't waste energy on one that isn't a real problem for the most important ones of all - the horses.

 

[brigantia]

Spudlet, where is your evidence that a trained vet is less competent at humanely putting a horse down than a slaughter house professional?

This is an emotive subject. There are at least two sides to every issue. I'm happy to debate those sides, but dismayed by the way that anyone on this board, including the well-intentioned OP, gets shot down for daring to criticise the slaughter industry.

Instead of dishing out personal insults and calling people ignorant and stupid because they disagree with us, I think it's better to stick to actual facts.

I didn't even want to do more than post the link to Fugly's blog so the OP would know that she wasn't the only person on the planet to question the ethics of equine slaughter, but then Sirenna and others falsely stated that Fugly only criticized Mexican slaughter and thought US slaughter was okay, I then felt obliged to refute this by going to the source. Cathy Atkinson was kind enough to reply to me and substantiate her view that she is anti-slaughter and wholly approves of the US slaughter ban and does not hold the slaughter ban in any way responsible for horse welfare issues in the US.

There seems as much wilful ignorance and misinformation in the pro-slaughter side as the anti-slaughter side.

We're more likely to actually have a dialogue if we can exchange facts rather than insults.

 

[brigantia]

Facts relating to the equine slaughter debate

Here is evidence of a deliberate and misleading media campaign connecting the US slaughter ban to an increase in neglect. This is not true. In fact, abuse and neglect cases actually went down after the US slaughter ban went into effect:

http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/DeletingtheFictionShortPaper.pdf

It is a fallacy to connect neglect, cruelty, and hoarding to a slaughter ban. If people do insist this is true, could they please cite impartial sources?

During the years when horse slaughter was still legal in the US, they were still exporting horses to Mexico and Canada. In addition, Canadian horses were being exported for slaughter in the United States. Thus, legal slaughter in the US did nothing to stop the transport of horses for slaughter to foreign countries.

Slaughter does not exist as a "service" for horse disposal. It is a profit-driven industry operating on the laws of supply and demand. Most horses who go to slaughter are healthy. The slaughter industry does not want ill or emaciated horses. This is why ex-race horses are slaughtered in large numbers--because they are available when they are still young and tender. Most old, neglected, or abandoned horses are not going to be desirable for meat. This is why slaughter isn't a quick fix solution to situations like the appalling neglect at Spindles Farm or most of the abandoned horses in Ireland.

In the US, only about 1% of horses are exported for slaughter for human consumption--this is in accordance with the European demand for horse meat. Slaughter as a business is not going to increase and open abbatoirs in every corner of Britain just because people perceive an oversupply of unwanted horses. Demand drives the business, not the supply.

Mexico is not the only place in the world where slaughter has found to be inhumane. Two Canadian slaughter plants financed by Belgians to slaughter US and Canadian horses for the European meat market have now closed due to CFIA laws for multiple environmental and animal welfare violations.

In France, a major consumer of horse meat, consumption, and thus demand, for horse meat has declined. The slaughter industry won't vanish overnight, but meat consumption in general is in decline.

Horses are generally not bred and raised as livestock meant to be eaten. They are raised as companion animals, work animals, and sport animals, rather than meatstock. Bute, ivermectin, fly spray, vaccinations, and anti-biotics will state that they are "not for use on animals intended for human consumption." All phenylbutazone products render an animal unfit for human consumption and are carcinogenic when consumed by humans. Given the choice, wouldn't you rather consume organic meat from animals specifically and humanely raised for meat?

Every horse that is rescued from slaughter and that is well-looked-after contributes to the economy, supporting feed merchants, livery yards, vets, trainers, saddleries, and farriers.

Horse ownership is voluntary. With this choice comes responsibility.

Not everyone who has ethical qualms about equine slaughter is a militant vegan bunny hugger. A critical mass of people succeeded in banning slaughter in the US. The same thing could happen in the European Union. As general meat consumption declines, we might be seeing a decline in the equine slaughter industry in any case.

 

[Natch]

In my opinion tho cows and sheep do not have the same affectionate value a person shares with their horse! Sure some people would disagree with that but that is just what i believe, and of course lamb and beef is a huge trade in our country but would like to think its extremely unheard of for anyone to eat horse in england!

So what you are saying is that in your opinion horses in the UK deserve endings which are easier for the human to accept (PTS at home not slaughter at an abbatoir), more than cattle or sheep, and, presumably, more than horses on the continent? And the differences in what the different species or herds deserve is because of mankind's affection for them in any given state?

The reason that horses go to slaughter is that there are too many of them - so perhaps we should look to the number of horses being bred rather than looking at the outcome of this - surplus horses ending up being slaughtered.

Spot on.

Im not looking to argue and debate this! Just feel particularly upset that the sweet little pony i brought home with me lived 3 years of neglect to be killed!

It is a sad story for sure, but its the neglect that would be better tackled, rather than the slaughter end of it. Let's face it, we have a highly regulated slaughter industry here in the UK, and a horse's experience in a slaughterhouse will last for what, a few minutes? Compare that with the 3 years of neglect and then tell me which you'd rather deal with first.

People get so hooked up on slaughter, but it is very much a side issue. In fact, in some circumstances I would rather a horse be pts by an experienced slaughterman than by a vet, who may well have far less experience depending on their background, whether they specialise in horses and how long they have been doing the job.

The REAL issues are many - here are just three of them:
The long-distance transportation of horses to slaughter in Europe. When tens of thousands of horses are being carted from Poland, Romania, Lithuania, Latvia etc etc to Italy with no water, no rest, no food, injuries, disease, fear as many of them will never have been on a lorry before - THAT is an issue.

Overbreeding - when horses and ponies are bred for no good reason than 'oh my mare is unable to be ridden, so I'll put her in foal', 'foals are so cute, I want one', 'I'll make a quick buck here from this foal, who cares where it ends up' - THAT is an issue.

Irresponsible owners - 'My horse is old and can't be ridden, I don't want to keep it, I don't know anyone else that needs a companion, but I can't bear to think of having it pts so I'll loan it out to a complete stranger or sell it for a few quid and make sure I don't think of where it might end up lalalalalalala not thinking about it' - THAT is an issue.

There are LOTS of REAL problems in the horseworld, don't waste energy on one that isn't a real problem for the most important ones of all - the horses.

Most sensible post on H&H for a long time

 

[Jennyharvey]

Facts relating to the equine slaughter debate

Here is evidence of a deliberate and misleading media campaign connecting the US slaughter ban to an increase in neglect. This is not true. In fact, abuse and neglect cases actually went down after the US slaughter ban went into effect:

http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/DeletingtheFictionShortPaper.pdf

It is a fallacy to connect neglect, cruelty, and hoarding to a slaughter ban. If people do insist this is true, could they please cite impartial sources?

During the years when horse slaughter was still legal in the US, they were still exporting horses to Mexico and Canada. In addition, Canadian horses were being exported for slaughter in the United States. Thus, legal slaughter in the US did nothing to stop the transport of horses for slaughter to foreign countries.

Slaughter does not exist as a "service" for horse disposal. It is a profit-driven industry operating on the laws of supply and demand. Most horses who go to slaughter are healthy. The slaughter industry does not want ill or emaciated horses. This is why ex-race horses are slaughtered in large numbers--because they are available when they are still young and tender. Most old, neglected, or abandoned horses are not going to be desirable for meat. This is why slaughter isn't a quick fix solution to situations like the appalling neglect at Spindles Farm or most of the abandoned horses in Ireland.

In the US, only about 1% of horses are exported for slaughter for human consumption--this is in accordance with the European demand for horse meat. Slaughter as a business is not going to increase and open abbatoirs in every corner of Britain just because people perceive an oversupply of unwanted horses. Demand drives the business, not the supply.

Mexico is not the only place in the world where slaughter has found to be inhumane. Two Canadian slaughter plants financed by Belgians to slaughter US and Canadian horses for the European meat market have now closed due to CFIA laws for multiple environmental and animal welfare violations.

In France, a major consumer of horse meat, consumption, and thus demand, for horse meat has declined. The slaughter industry won't vanish overnight, but meat consumption in general is in decline.

Horses are generally not bred and raised as livestock meant to be eaten. They are raised as companion animals, work animals, and sport animals, rather than meatstock. Bute, ivermectin, fly spray, vaccinations, and anti-biotics will state that they are "not for use on animals intended for human consumption." All phenylbutazone products render an animal unfit for human consumption and are carcinogenic when consumed by humans. Given the choice, wouldn't you rather consume organic meat from animals specifically and humanely raised for meat?

Every horse that is rescued from slaughter and that is well-looked-after contributes to the economy, supporting feed merchants, livery yards, vets, trainers, saddleries, and farriers.

Horse ownership is voluntary. With this choice comes responsibility.

Not everyone who has ethical qualms about equine slaughter is a militant vegan bunny hugger. A critical mass of people succeeded in banning slaughter in the US. The same thing could happen in the European Union. As general meat consumption declines, we might be seeing a decline in the equine slaughter industry in any case.

Well, i am a vegan bunny hugger. And i am against killing all animals. And all animal suffering. But i believe that death is a much better option than what an animal might otherwise have to endure.
I am not in favour of slaughter houses, for any animal, i would much rather see a horse shot humanly by someone who actually cares. Not just by someone who sees an animals as a hunk of meat.
I dont really see killing a horse in a slaughter house as being any different from killing any other animal. We live in a very spieciesism world, where we value some animals more than others.
Which is in my opinion, wrong. No animal deserves to end up in a slaughterhouse, but if we treat them like comodities, they will.

 

[Spudlet]

Spudlet, where is your evidence that a trained vet is less competent at humanely putting a horse down than a slaughter house professional?

An experienced slaughterhouse operative will have put down many more horses than a newly qualified vet - you only have to look here for some horror stories of how things can go wrong. Have seen slaughtermen in action, I am happy that the horses do not suffer - what happens to them after death is irrelevant.

If a vet has experience to the do the job well, as many do, great, but don't assume that every vet does have the experience.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Facts relating to the equine slaughter debate

Here is evidence of a deliberate and misleading media campaign connecting the US slaughter ban to an increase in neglect. This is not true. In fact, abuse and neglect cases actually went down after the US slaughter ban went into effect:

http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/DeletingtheFictionShortPaper.pdf

It is a fallacy to connect neglect, cruelty, and hoarding to a slaughter ban. If people do insist this is true, could they please cite impartial sources?

During the years when horse slaughter was still legal in the US, they were still exporting horses to Mexico and Canada. In addition, Canadian horses were being exported for slaughter in the United States. Thus, legal slaughter in the US did nothing to stop the transport of horses for slaughter to foreign countries.

Slaughter does not exist as a "service" for horse disposal. It is a profit-driven industry operating on the laws of supply and demand. Most horses who go to slaughter are healthy. The slaughter industry does not want ill or emaciated horses. This is why ex-race horses are slaughtered in large numbers--because they are available when they are still young and tender. Most old, neglected, or abandoned horses are not going to be desirable for meat. This is why slaughter isn't a quick fix solution to situations like the appalling neglect at Spindles Farm or most of the abandoned horses in Ireland.

In the US, only about 1% of horses are exported for slaughter for human consumption--this is in accordance with the European demand for horse meat. Slaughter as a business is not going to increase and open abbatoirs in every corner of Britain just because people perceive an oversupply of unwanted horses. Demand drives the business, not the supply.

Mexico is not the only place in the world where slaughter has found to be inhumane. Two Canadian slaughter plants financed by Belgians to slaughter US and Canadian horses for the European meat market have now closed due to CFIA laws for multiple environmental and animal welfare violations.

In France, a major consumer of horse meat, consumption, and thus demand, for horse meat has declined. The slaughter industry won't vanish overnight, but meat consumption in general is in decline.

Horses are generally not bred and raised as livestock meant to be eaten. They are raised as companion animals, work animals, and sport animals, rather than meatstock. Bute, ivermectin, fly spray, vaccinations, and anti-biotics will state that they are "not for use on animals intended for human consumption." All phenylbutazone products render an animal unfit for human consumption and are carcinogenic when consumed by humans. Given the choice, wouldn't you rather consume organic meat from animals specifically and humanely raised for meat?

Every horse that is rescued from slaughter and that is well-looked-after contributes to the economy, supporting feed merchants, livery yards, vets, trainers, saddleries, and farriers.

Horse ownership is voluntary. With this choice comes responsibility.

Not everyone who has ethical qualms about equine slaughter is a militant vegan bunny hugger. A critical mass of people succeeded in banning slaughter in the US. The same thing could happen in the European Union. As general meat consumption declines, we might be seeing a decline in the equine slaughter industry in any case.

I can't believe this thread is still going and I have only read some of the responses. The above is the most educated, succinct response yet and I totally agree with it. The OP is entitled to her opinion and doesn't deserve to be shot down in flames. If you want to disagree, that's fine, but at least do so in an informed manner. However what would the forum be without differences of opinion!

 

[brigantia]

Jenny, Spudlet, and Holly, thank you so much for your civil and heartfelt comments. I'm so happy we can actually discuss this like adults.

Spudlet, I certainly hope you are correct that horses in UK slaughter houses are humanely dispatched by experienced people. I actually know someone who works as a vet in a Belgian slaughter house where she says that sadly that is not always the case from her experience.


This is "old news" from 2006, but it's an undercover investigation of the two British slaughter houses:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/oct/01/horseracing.sport

 

[Holly Hocks]

the Guardian article makes very interesting reading Brigantia. I find it difficult to stomach that Valerie Turner is actually a judge at HOYS. Also amazing is how the claimed number of slaughtering 2-3000 racehorses per year, decreases to around 700 when they are informed that the undercover "trainer" is actually a reporter.
However for as long as horse slaughter is taking place, I still think it is far better that it is done in this country, without the long trips abroad. And it has to be remembered that it isn't just racehorses which end up in the meat chain - family pets, SJs, wild ponies bred indiscriminately, and those which end up with incompetent, unknowledgeable owners also end up there. And the argument that people can't afford to have their horses PTS at home also grates with me. If you've been able to afford to keep the horse for years, keep it fed and taken pleasure from the animal, the least it deserves is to end it's days at home. I know peoples circumstances change, but I believe that everyone should have a contingency plan if the worst happens.

 

[paisley]

The article from the Guardian is interesting reading, but I would also say that it is written in a slightly emotive manner.

Abattoirs are not nice places to visit, under any circumstances. However, I have been to Potters, and the horses are kept in an indoor barn.

I have not seen the kind of panic or fear suggested in the article and only occasionaly hear the whinnying you do hear when groups of horses are together eg such as you hear at competitions.

They are also inspected and audited on a very regular basis. The people at Turners are very respectful of the job they do and as I understand it ILPH approved.

Having seen horses euthanased by abattoir, vets, knackermen and the hunt, I would say yes, the abattoir is more dispassionate, but no less respectful of the animal they are dealing with.

And a final, but minor point. Equine research is frequently limited and poorly funded. Unlike human studies, it cannot use murine sources or euthanase horses purely for the sake of experiments due to ethical reasons. Abattoirs are a significant source of tissue as it is often vital that this is obtained as soon as possible after death. I appreciate that this is a whole other discussion , but no abattoirs would make a large part of equine research very difficult.

 

[Holly Hocks]

The article from the Guardian is interesting reading, but I would also say that it is written in a slightly emotive manner.

Abattoirs are not nice places to visit, under any circumstances. However, I have been to Potters, and the horses are kept in an indoor barn.

I have not seen the kind of panic or fear suggested in the article and only occasionaly hear the whinnying you do hear when groups of horses are together eg such as you hear at competitions.

They are also inspected and audited on a very regular basis. The people at Turners are very respectful of the job they do and as I understand it ILPH approved.

Having seen horses euthanased by abattoir, vets, knackermen and the hunt, I would say yes, the abattoir is more dispassionate, but no less respectful of the animal they are dealing with.

And a final, but minor point. Equine research is frequently limited and poorly funded. Unlike human studies, it cannot use murine sources or euthanase horses purely for the sake of experiments due to ethical reasons. Abattoirs are a significant source of tissue as it is often vital that this is obtained as soon as possible after death. I appreciate that this is a whole other discussion , but no abattoirs would make a large part of equine research very difficult.

That's a good point, Paisley, about the abbatoirs providing the bodies for equine research, I hadn't thought of that. And it's good to hear from someone who has had first hand experience of vet/abbatoir/hunt etc. I think what I found distasteful about the article in the Guardian is the manner in which the abbatoir owner spoke of the horses - "letting the child ride the pony before it was turned into meat" or whatever the phrase was, and using "names" such as Harvey Smith and McCain as if it was some sort of business promotion. Although let's face it, the Press may have "manipulated" exactly what was said and it is hard from reading the written word to put the exact emotion to the words and the manner and context in which it was really said!