Cannot believe what I just saw on BBC1

doonrocket said:
Cards on the table Mike.

I was a serial sgt in the police line directly behind the horses in the BBC clip we discussed. I have 15 years experience of disorder and working with police horses. Trust me, they are invaluable at holding cordons and getting to places vehicles can't and officers would take to long to. Yes they have their limitations, but without them yesterday there would have been mayhem. If you felt like I did when I crashed on the sofa last night after a hard day you would understand.

I take it from your previous answer that your opinion does not come from a position of experience.
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I totally agree with that - I was there trying to do my lunchtime shopping (must have been the only person that set off out the office not knowing the demonstrations were taking place last Weds!) and have to say the 4-5 police horses that I saw were the only thing keeping the column of students going up and down Park Street fairly ordered and also the horses presence at the top of Park Street and the area in front of the Wills Building meant there were open pieces of road as people give the horses space so I too think they are invaluable in such situations and I have to say it made me feel safer last Weds.
 
Okay GG and MM - you are out for hack on a public bridleway. You meet something that scares your horse, he hits reverse/spins at speed. Behind you walking up the track is a mother with toddler , young child and two dogs on leads. You have 20 secs - do you pat your horse? or jump off and risk him pulling away from you knocking everybody down & getting loose on the road or hit him with your stick to back up your legs and send him forward boldly?
 
MagicMelon said:
To me, it looks like he does hit the horse with his baton which IMO is out of order. I've read some of the posts on here (no, I'm not about to read the full 30 whatever pages) and am (as usual) shocked by some of your responses saying you would quite happily smack your horse in this sort of situation. The horse is scared, smacking it does NOT help. So many people seem to beat their horses into submission forgetting that they aren't machines. To get called a "bunny-hugger" just because some of us don't agree with smacking horses is utterly ridiculous. But then again... I guess we are on a pro-hunting magazines forum so its only inevitable...
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sorry??

then maybe you should bugger off to a non pro hunting magazines forum.??
 
nativeponies said:
sorry??

then maybe you should bugger off to a non pro hunting magazines forum.??
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I agree with this. Just because we may give our horses a smack when it is needed does not mean we beat them into submission!! What a stupid thing to say magicmelon. If you don't like the pro hunting feel in here then maybe you should leave. It is after all the 'Horse and Hound' forum.
 
He doesn't look like he's hitting the horse. If you can hit a horse by swinging a baton like that, then Polo is now officially the cruellest sport in the world........

As for the "bunny huggers". Bugger off. My horse has been hit, smacked and whipped... and she's the best behaved horse I know. The horses that have no respect for humans or other horses are the ones owned by people who won't give the things a smack!

I know this, because my sister decided to use a non-aggressive approach on her 15.3hh pba colt. I got fed up with his behaviour, and behind her back taught him some manners. She was so impressed with the transformation that a stick is kept outside his stable at all times.

And as for HORSE AND HOUND being pro hunting... NO **** SHERLOCK!

Gods, you bunny huggers are smart...
 
Golf girl- I think saying that we are being ignorant is completely unfounded and a totally unnecessary comment to make. Just because some of us actually know what we are doing does not make us ignorant. It is the people who just 'think' they do that cause all these problems.
 
Golf Girl said:
What breathtaking bloody arrogance!
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Interesting observation from someone who only logs on to this forum to be arrogant.

Aah yes, but the Countryside March protesters have a lot more respect for authority than those yobs; indeed, that copper probably wasn't needed at all! Plus there have still been no cleaner march or rally than those; we took our litter home or binned it. Bet they'd prefer our marches to some they have to police!
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Yes, I was on the CA march and the only trouble was caused by the LACS/Sabs/RSPCA types... or collectively 'chavs.'
 
Ok so haven't read all replies..... ;)

But hitting a horse to make it go forwards, when it has ignored a leg aid (regardless of situation) if perfectly reasonable - that it backing up an aid, something that the majority of horses in the UK will have had happen to them. Thats if he did hit the horse of course ;)

Beating a horse is completely different.

Police horses are fantastic, they are sometimes the only reasonable being present, I have seen them at football matches make thousands of yobs retreat to the stand just by walking sideways persistently at them. People, thugs whatever, in the main respect them. When they are the animals in a situation, and yet behave better than a crowd full of supposed 'higher animals' speaks volumes imho.

And it is a little arrogant to assume everyone on here likes hunting. Horse and Hound is a reasonably dated title, the majority of people on here discuss hacking, and competing, not hunting :)
 
cougar said:
Golf girl- I think saying that we are being ignorant is completely unfounded and a totally unnecessary comment to make. Just because some of us actually know what we are doing does not make us ignorant. It is the people who just 'think' they do that cause all these problems.
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Erm, I did not say that you or anyone else was 'ignorant' - I said that nativeponies' comment was arrogant! Ignorant and arrogant do not mean the same thing!

:rolleyes:
 
Mike007 said:
More of a sad disillusion of their effectiveness.
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Really? As a civilian, you really ought to be a little more sensible about this. Every officer I've spoken to believes that the horse is worth maybe 10 times more in terms of effectiveness. How many do you speak to regularly? You've already made your feelings about police officers very plain.

doonrocket said:
Cards on the table Mike.

I was a serial sgt in the police line directly behind the horses in the BBC clip we discussed. I have 15 years experience of disorder and working with police horses. Trust me, they are invaluable at holding cordons and getting to places vehicles can't and officers would take to long to.

I take it from your previous answer that your opinion does not come from a position of experience.
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Quite and to be brutally honest, I would rather it was the horse, not the officer. I value human life above equine. Ooh, bad me! If a horse gets in the firing line and saves my OH form serious injury, then I won't apologise for being an advocate of using them in dangerous situations.
 
cinammontoast said:
Really? As a civilian, you really ought to be a little more sensible about this. Every officer I've spoken to believes that the horse is worth maybe 10 times more in terms of effectiveness. How many do you speak to regularly? You've already made your feelings about police officers very plain.



Quite and to be brutally honest, I would rather it was the horse, not the officer. I value human life above equine. Ooh, bad me! If a horse gets in the firing line and saves my OH form serious injury, then I won't apologise for being an advocate of using them in dangerous situations.
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The horses should not have been there. They were haphazardly situated (not even in a rank) betwean a police cordon and the crowd. Hardly surprising at least one spooked . Even a police horse is at heart,a herd animal . A horse s advantage is to move quickly and cover a lot of ground,sticking them there in a sandwich was basicly daft.
 
Mike007 said:
The horses should not have been there. They were haphazardly situated (not even in a rank) betwean a police cordon and the crowd. Hardly surprising at least one spooked . Even a police horse is at heart,a herd animal . A horse s advantage is to move quickly and cover a lot of ground,sticking them there in a sandwich was basicly daft.
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How would you have used them then?.. At the end of the day, they played a huge part throughout the day, and as a officer said. They were invaluable.
 
Harper_Gal said:
He doesn't look like he's hitting the horse. If you can hit a horse by swinging a baton like that, then Polo is now officially the cruellest sport in the world........

As for the "bunny huggers". Bugger off. My horse has been hit, smacked and whipped... and she's the best behaved horse I know. The horses that have no respect for humans or other horses are the ones owned by people who won't give the things a smack!

I know this, because my sister decided to use a non-aggressive approach on her 15.3hh pba colt. I got fed up with his behaviour, and behind her back taught him some manners. She was so impressed with the transformation that a stick is kept outside his stable at all times.

And as for HORSE AND HOUND being pro hunting... NO **** SHERLOCK!

Gods, you bunny huggers are smart...
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Just off to whip, beat and smack my horse to prove I am not a bunny hugger.What colour stick should I keep outside the stable door? Perhaps I should ask PapaFrita.My Your Horse mags will make a nice bonfire on this cold day.
 
eahotson said:
Just off to whip, beat and smack my horse to prove I am not a bunny hugger.What colour stick should I keep outside the stable door? Perhaps I should ask PapaFrita.My Your Horse mags will make a nice bonfire on this cold day.
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Re-reading my post, it's badly worded. Sister's colt suffers bad stable manners, hence why the stick is outside his stable.

Mine is also only smacked when she's bad. Not as an every day "I feel like beating my horse" sort of thing.

But 500kg of wild, uncontrollable animal is downright dangerous. Weighing up smacking the things, or having children (which, it should be remembered, these protestors are!) trampled... No choice.
 
Mike007 said:
I still think the question is whether the horses should have been there in the first place. Without them , a firework yeah ,so what.!They serve no usefull purpose and create problems.
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I have long wished fireworks were not sold to the general public. They are frequently misused causing untold upset to pets, horses and their owners, not to mention the odd injury and disfigurement, and downright abuse as in this case. I do like a good firework display myself, but the best ones by far are those organized for the public, well-financed, and limited to well-defined dates and venues.
 
I have read every reply and the news reports linked to on here.

Firstly, I am a student and the people throwing fireworks are certainly not representative of us all!

Secondly, I do not personally approve of hunting and am still, I hope, a valid member of this community.

Thirdly, and most importantly, I am a horse owner and lover who feels strongly about animal welfare... and I support the police officer's decision to move his horse forward with the use of the baton. I found the video quite shocking on the first viewing but mostly due to the throwing of fireworks! Yes, the horse was afraid, but it needed to go forward for the safety of all the people on the ground, the rider and itself. The baton did move it forwards and achieved it's purpose and the horse does not seem to be any the worse for it.

I have given my horse a smack with a stick to move her out of the way of oncoming traffic before. There was no lasting damage... she still trusts me and we're both alive rather than having been flattened by a lorry.
 
I have not read all the post but seriously? You call that a beating? These police horses are highly trained and to have one disobey in the situation that officer was in could be catastrophic, all I saw were 2/3 smacks, through an exercise sheet at that!

If your horse was to spook into an oncoming lorry, would you just sit there and pat him? I suspect that those that would do that would very quickly get both themselves and their horse squished!
 
firm - I certainly wouldn't smack my horse. Perhaps your horse responds to that treatment. My horse is pretty sharp when it comes to that, if he was scared enough to spin round etc. then that LAST thing I'd do is smack him! That would guarantee to get him even MORE hyped up and upset about the situation. Some horses don't take being pelted with a whip nicely... those that do "accept" it so easily have likely got used to it happening frequently.

With regards to the other comments - I do believe this forum is open to everyone, pro or anti. I do not frequent the hunting board for the very reason that I do not wish to discuss hunting.

Harper_Gal - Your poor horse is all I can say. Wow, can't believe you are so proud to admit you have "hit, smacked and whipped" your horse. Do you believe this is the ONLY way to get a horse to be well behaved? I can say that I've generally had very well behaved horses who I have never had to smack into doing anything!
 
MM I have a horse here just like yours :-) but I have learnt over the years he woud be the exception rather than the rule IMHO to most horses. Horses all are different personalities, some you could hit for the first time & they would not flinch and some like our boys would turn themselves inside out. Just watch a herd of horses interacting and you will see those who jump out the way at an ear flick and those who need bitten hard to shift them.
 
andraste said:
Reassuring scared horses makes them worse - it confirms to them that there was something worthy of being scared of in the first place. You need to be firm so that they take confidence from you. Pretty much what the policeman was doing.
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But a horse needs to encouraged by a strong and calm rider not hit the horse as it will make the horse think that the thing it is scared of is the thing that caused the pain, the next time an idiot throws a firework at that horse it will react worse because of the way that the rider reacted due to panicked.:mad:
 
Scrumpyjack3 said:
But a horse needs to encouraged by a strong and calm rider not hit the horse as it will make the horse think that the thing it is scared of is the thing that caused the pain, the next time an idiot throws a firework at that horse it will react worse because of the way that the rider reacted due to panicked.:mad:
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What a load of tripe.
 
Blimey, all this fuss...I dont remember the same drama when Miz_Elz or whatever she was called back then beat her horse and left welts on it for not going past a gate....must be the bunny brigade :rolleyes::D
 
Mike007 said:
A horse s advantage is to move quickly and cover a lot of ground,sticking them there in a sandwich was basicly daft.
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Can't agree - having seen police horses used in front of a line of officers on more than one occasion! MOST people are somewhat intimidated by even a single large horse - whereas a police officer on foot is just a person! MOST demo crowds will hold back faced with even 2-3 police horses.

The other advantage is that the officers on horseback have a vantage point that the officers on foot don't have. They can see where pockets of trouble-makers are gathering - and see what they're doing - and warn other officers accordingly.

But 500kg of wild, uncontrollable animal is downright dangerous. Weighing up smacking the things, or having children (which, it should be remembered, these protestors are!) trampled... No choice.
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Agreed - although in that instance it was more likely to be the police officers who would have been trampled.

I can't believe people are STILL going on about the poor little horsie getting a smack.

Police horses are trained to these situations - and they are disciplined if they 'forget' their training in moments of stress. They HAVE to be obedient and under control at all times, otherwise they endanger the public, other police officers and their riders. The PC just didn't have TIME to sit there soothing and stroking that horse - it HAD to be sent on sharpish!

Police horses generally have a pretty good life. They are well trained, well-fed, and well cared for. They generally stay fit for work MUCH longer than most horses - which says something - and they enjoy a GOOD retirement or are PTS properly when age/soundness means they cannot carry out their duties. An occasional smack to ensure they DO keep minds on job is a very small price to pay!
 
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