Cannot ever let dog off lead.

[RutlandH2O]

I wouldn't risk him off lead on a road or in town - he's a dog - but in a suitable area, he will be off lead.

For me, having a dog on lead is not a form of penalisation, in the same way a dog crate used to housebreak a pup should never be used as punishment. My definition of "in a public place" means on roads or in towns. A suitable place for dogs off lead would have to be parks where there are dedicated areas for dogs. I posted, some time ago, that I thought having unleashed dogs on bridleways was dangerous, for dogs, horses, and people. I was shot down for that. Yes, there are responsible dog owners, like yourself, who have the knowledge and control of their dogs. However, there are more than just a few dog owners who see dogs off lead and think it's cool and just let their animals go. I see it here all the time. There is an attitude of entitlement that says "my dog, my decision to leave off lead" and the rest of the world be damned. Two JRTs were killed on the railroad tracks, off lead, with owner walking further behind the dogs. A farmer shot and killed a labrador bitch and injured a lab dog because they were allowed to wander onto the farmer's land, dive into his lake and drown two commercial geese. Both dogs were owned by country people with land who should have known better. Their other bitch, a lovely, animal, spent most of her days snuffling about other people's gardens, narrowly escaping being killed by virtually every person in this tiny village because she was always on the road. Another JRT (brother of my bitch) spent every day on roads, driveways, gardens of everyone else's land (and leaving his little calling cards everywhere). There are only 12 properties in my village and some of these do have responsible dog owners. One woman had taken to walking her dogs with a cricket bat to protect her bitches from the JRT.

What I'm attempting to convey is a sense of utter frustration with the irresponsible off lead owners. Coming from a residential area in the US, where there were strict leash laws, it was a pleasure to go about dog walking, jogging, picnicking, what have you, without fear of dog attacks or being chased by a loose dog. There were designated dog parks where I taught show handling and grooming of an evening under great lighting, or during the day on weekends.

 

[Jools2345]

Keep it on a lead.

I was arrogant enough to try and tackle thousands of years of genetics - succeeded in many areas, incidentally, but in the case of instant recall and prey drive I hold my hands up and unwind the long line.

this dog is currently on lead due to cruciate surgery and even with 2 hrs walking daily and hydrotherapy she is climbing the walls and she is now nearly 6yrs old.

i now work somewhere different where she can come with me, its 12 acres, securely fenced and has feral cats. as she now does not hunt cats she can come with me and be loose for at least 2 hrs daily (when she is not injured).


personally for a dog like her a life on the lead would be cruel IMO.

i have also witnessed owners with severve back problems and dogs with broken necks/leg injuries due to long lines and the like. my other dogs would have led a contented life if they had been on lead i am sure but this one, i think she would turn herself inside out, she has been very unhappy in her recovery due in large part to lack of excersize/stimulation-i cant allow her anything to play with as she throws it about and then leaps after it like a loon-and i have frequently wished i had said no to surgery and called it a day but we are over the worst now (for her) but my legs feel like they are going to fall off

 

[Nikki J]

Erm I didnt demand all dogs be kept on a lead.. may want to read who actually posted what!

oops apologies!! But someone did, I forget who, someone made a short statement along the lines that all dogs should be on the lead in public places - ipso facto everywhere bar their owners private property.

Sorry to accuse you wrongly

 

[Nikki J]

I'm off to buy an e-collar. If they work so well on dogs, just think that they can do for horse training!

I was always led to believe that no knowledge comes out of the end of a stick so it was counter productive to beat a dog, but it seems electricity over comes that problem

E-collars are illegal in Wales, soon will be in Scotland, and then England will probably follow. Why is it that Parliament takes notice of the stupid experts who say these wonderful devices should be banned?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!! It's not electricity, neither is it comparable to beating a dog

 

[Nikki J]

I don't know to whom you refer when you say "someone that (the word should be who) clearly doesn't like dogs..." If you are referring to me, boy have you got a wrong number! None of my dogs are EVER off lead in public places, EVER!! And they have good to excellent recall. I moved to the UK with 15 dogs (yes, they all went through 6 months of quarantine with me at their beck and call every single day). They were a very important part of my family (this was 18 years ago, and those 15 are all long gone) and there was no question of them not being part of a move halfway around the globe. So, don't talk to me about liking, much less loving, dogs. There are cities, towns, and villages were there are leash laws, with fines for any dogs off lead, and, for good reason. Aside from the obvious problems of loose dogs and traffic, pavement fouling, cocking legs on storefronts, other not-so-friendly dogs, there's the situation where some people are genuinely frightened of dogs. I'm a person who would never trespass or allow my child to do so. Likewise, in my mind, a loose dog could be guilty of trespass, whether it's someone's garden, shop window, chained bicycle, carpark, beach blanket (think cocked leg). I don't believe dogs suffer when on lead. I know mine don't. The two dogs I now own are a JRT and a GBGV (an old breed of French scent hounds). They are sheer delight on lead, but I, also, know the hunting/chasing drive in both dogs is tremendous. When I was interviewed before I got my GBGV, my breeder asked me what were my feelings about dogs off lead (she lives in the wilds of Perthshire). I've always erred on the side of caution and feel my dogs are safer on lead, especially in populated areas. So, with much trepidation, I told her that I preferred my dogs on lead. She let out a sigh and said she was so relieved because once the breed is on scent they are almost impossible to recall, even if their recall is well-established. There is something almost primordial about the GBGV and I would never risk her, or the JRT's safety away from home.

Sorry Spudlet, your analogy just doesn't translate. In both of your cases, someone is on the horses and steering for that hypothetical "spin." Now, if you intended to release the racehorse onto open land...

OK, fair off, that's your right, your prerogative, but I happen to think differently, and happen to think that to keep very large dogs like mine on the lead the whole time, never to run free, is cruel - so we will just have to shake hands and agree to differ. With a simple device, I have managed to ensure that my dog has an excellent recall, and I am totally happy with that fact.

 

[Nikki J]

Nikki, with respect, there are a lot of dogs who's drive to do what it is they feel compelled to do, will carry them through the e-collar, or indeed any training aid, or indeed, hitting them with sticks (not that I have tried it).

It is, like most things, not a failsafe. I think you may be imbuing it with powers that it does not possess.

We'll have to disagree - the e collar with my Ben IS extremely effective - look, he is a wolf cross with a huge prey drive. What chances do you reckon we would have of recalling him - or indeed ANY dog - who had got inside a pheasant breeding pen? Yes - I am ashamed to say that happened a year ago - the local landowner used to have a pheasant shoot on his land, and there was an area of woodland, about 1 or so acres, that was completely fenced off with high perimeter fencing all the way round so that the adult pheasants could fly in and out, but the young pheasants couldn't. This has now been abandoned, but all the feeders were still lying around, and the pheasants obviously still use it for roosting etc. because they know the foxes cannot get them. However, unbeknown to us, the fencing had been dismantled by one panel - making a gap of about 6 or 8 feet, through which of course dogs could go. The inevitable happened, Ben and Tai went through the gap as we walked past and before we could say Come - they were off, with pheasants and feathers going everywhere. Mike immediately barked "Come!" - nothing, so Ben got a zap from the collar set on a fairly low setting - 15. He registered this, but still did not come, so immediately hubby gave him a zap of 20 and instantly he recalled - but Tai was still on the hunt, and he paused - this was his big mistake. He then had a sustained zap and shot straight back to us, closely followed by Tai. Not one pheasant was hurt thank goodness, and we learned a lesson not to assume that because an area has been fenced off for ever, it may not necessarily still be so the next day.

Can you imagine a dog like Ben set loose amongst a flock of squawking pheasants coming back to us within a period of about 10 seconds without an e collar? Hell would freeze over before that would happen without an e collar.

By the way, he has never done this again - a neighbour's chickens escaped from their back garden the other day, and although Ben looked, he never attempted to chase them as they made a mad dash for their garden.

Hope this explains without appearing to be argumentative!

 

[Nikki J]

Keep it on a lead.

I was arrogant enough to try and tackle thousands of years of genetics - succeeded in many areas, incidentally, but in the case of instant recall and prey drive I hold my hands up and unwind the long line.

What!! On his own land ... that's a bit harsh!!

 

[Nikki J]

Nikki- thank you for your reply. Ill answer fully when I get home,

However it is ignorant to state that I do not understand how e collars work. I do, I have used them in other breeds with total success. I totally understand what you are saying, but i have also employed spray/ beep/ vibrate collars with salukis- nothing.
You say you are experienced with the breed? May I enquire what that experience adds up to?

Mine is on te basis of 11 salukis of my own, and 40 years of breeding one of the mot successful accredited breed lines in existence, with coursing and show champions numbering into the 20s.
Cavecanem, thank you- I agree.

No, I said I was familiar with the breed - in other words, I have a small amount of knowledge! I am nowhere near as experienced with the breed as your good self, so I would not dream of arguing with you.

I am amazed that you are saying that salukis do not respond to an e collar - I would suggest that you were not using them properly - but I will concede that if you are absolutely sure that they were used correctly - and this can mean having to go further than you might feel comfortable with (I would be totally unable for instance to give Ben a sustained zap like OH does, I just would not be comfortable with it) - then I will have to accept what you say, but your experience must be virtually unique, because used correctly, a good quality e collar (forget the cheap ones, you need to spend a lot of money with Dogtra being the best make) will never fail to train a good recall. By recall, I don't mean the dog screeching straight to your side as if it were glued there - but to leave what it is doing and to come at a reasonable pace - trot at the slowest - back to you such that you can catch and put him on the lead (often Ben overshoots in his exuberance, but we are not bothered by this). I would love to know exactly what you did, and why you think you failed?

 

[Nikki J]

this dog is currently on lead due to cruciate surgery and even with 2 hrs walking daily and hydrotherapy she is climbing the walls and she is now nearly 6yrs old.

i now work somewhere different where she can come with me, its 12 acres, securely fenced and has feral cats. as she now does not hunt cats she can come with me and be loose for at least 2 hrs daily (when she is not injured).


personally for a dog like her a life on the lead would be cruel IMO.

i have also witnessed owners with severve back problems and dogs with broken necks/leg injuries due to long lines and the like. my other dogs would have led a contented life if they had been on lead i am sure but this one, i think she would turn herself inside out, she has been very unhappy in her recovery due in large part to lack of excersize/stimulation-i cant allow her anything to play with as she throws it about and then leaps after it like a loon-and i have frequently wished i had said no to surgery and called it a day but we are over the worst now (for her) but my legs feel like they are going to fall off

I quite agree. We used to live next door to a beautiful chocolate labrador who because he ran off once, was condemned to a life on the lead for ever more. He died at 10, overweight, with no muscle and terrible health problems related to the fact he never ran. He never ever even trotted, just walked beside his owners on a lead. I call this cruelty in the extreme.

 

[Nikki J]

Nikki, how did wearing an e-collar make you dog more loving to you??? Genuine question, not sniping!
Llanali, are you saying you take your dogs coursing????

Not at all, that is a very interesting question! When we first rescued him, he was a mess. He had been mistreated for most of his life, and then his last home he was spoiled rotten and had been allowed to do exactly what he wanted. He was a mess - he was vicious to us if we tried to stop him doing what he wanted, unfortunately for him we are extremely experienced with wolfy type dogs and it didn't wash with us, we were not frightened although OH was bitten. When we started using the e collar, after all else had failed on the recall, it was like he had respect for us for the first time. It was as if he was saying "about time too - at last you can communicate with me, and I understand what you want me to do". The e collar has provided an invisible line of communication - it is NOT a punishment, it does not inflict PAIN if used correctly as we use it. The dog is literally a reformed character, without having lost any of it if you understand what I mean!! He is still naughty, loveable, playful, demanding, everything that being Ben is, even down to hating large black male dogs, in particular black labradors and also spaniels for some strange reason, but he is supremely happy now and fully accepts his place, which is at the bottom of our pack!

Hth.

 

[Llanali]

No, I said I was familiar with the breed - in other words, I have a small amount of knowledge! I am nowhere near as experienced with the breed as your good self, so I would not dream of arguing with you.

I am amazed that you are saying that salukis do not respond to an e collar - I would suggest that you were not using them properly - but I will concede that if you are absolutely sure that they were used correctly - and this can mean having to go further than you might feel comfortable with (I would be totally unable for instance to give Ben a sustained zap like OH does, I just would not be comfortable with it) - then I will have to accept what you say, but your experience must be virtually unique, because used correctly, a good quality e collar (forget the cheap ones, you need to spend a lot of money with Dogtra being the best make) will never fail to train a good recall. By recall, I don't mean the dog screeching straight to your side as if it were glued there - but to leave what it is doing and to come at a reasonable pace - trot at the slowest - back to you such that you can catch and put him on the lead (often Ben overshoots in his exuberance, but we are not bothered by this). I would love to know exactly what you did, and why you think you failed?

Do you honestly believe that in the bold? Are you that arrogant and ignorant, that you believe any dog, ANY dog, will come to a recall from ANY activity with an e collar?


By all means happy to share my experience.

I have used multivet spray collars, an ultrasound collar (will need to check make at home) and a vibration collar (again brand escapes me), and a Dogtra.

I used to have sold charge of an employers labs when she was away. The dogs were awful for going off hunting, and as part of a wider behaviour development piece, she called in a highly respected dog behavioural therapist and obedience champion trainer.

She overhauled the exercise regime and the feed regime- the labs were over fed and under stimulated, and worked with owner and I with a Dogtra. Ten day acclimatisation period, working on a reward basis and doing basic tasks and normal recall as the dogs were accustomed to.

The test then came out walking off lead in woods- the pair went off hunting, the command "here" was given, and no recall came. So the trainer demonstrated the "zap", then call the moment the heads paused and the stride came up short. The dogs went to continue, were zapped once more at higher intensity, thought better of it and came back to much reward. Mission accomplished, the dogs were much MUCH better from then on, with occasional slip ups which involved more than one zap.

Success, and the product worked well.

I was fascinated, and had used spray collars on barking salukis in the past- those that bark at our perimeter fence- to good effect.

Trainer and I had a long discussion highlighting that salukis were such hunters it might be difficult. Trainer offered to assist me and try it out. Same process was used, both with one of my salukis whose recall is impeccable except when chasing, and one whose recall was hazy at best.

The tool failed, which I know you believe is impossible. I measure that failure, because a continued zap from the trainer and later from I had no effect on either, and trainer suggested that this was not the way forward.
I hope this provides a little more clarity as to why I believe that you are wrong in your adamency that an e collar will train any dog to recall. and yes, our definition of recall is the same.

Over the years, we in salukis have learnt that they come back when the prey is dead, or they have totally lost the trail.

 

[Superhot]

Thanks Nikki. Basically, you now have a happy dog because he knows the boundaries!!! Great!

 

[Nikki J]

It is sad isn't it? But glorious in it's own right. I cried buckets when I lost my saluki as above, when he broke his leg chaisng, but the adrenalin kept him from pain and he died doing his first true love.



Another breeder here who is never disappointed if one of my potential owners will not let them off the lead except in private enclosed land. And incidently, I love GBGV and PBGVs!


Genetics as CC and BC have said above, are what they are. I have learnt from previous mistakes- our salukis that got injured did so chasing at home on our land, but my Mother lost a young dog when she was 23- he bolted across a road and under a motor car. The rabbit he chased was also killed by said motor car.

You sound a lovely person - we see things slightly differently maybe, but I just wanted to say how lovely you sound!

 

[Nikki J]

Thanks Nikki. Basically, you now have a happy dog because he knows the boundaries!!! Great!

Absolutely - this is particularly important with the wolfie breeds like mals, sibes, all northern breeds, and of course wolf crosses. As Cesar says, you have to set the rules, boundaries and limitations with all dogs. And they will vary from owner to owner, and for rescued dogs this can be very confusing I would think, but at the end of the day I and OH are pack leaders and we must be obeyed!!

 

[Alec Swan]

Am I the only one who's finding it hard to concentrate on this thread?

It's rare, on here that I learn from those who have entrenched views. I have, however, found the posts of those who've voiced doubts, to be those that have made me "think". Others may care to try it, perhaps!

Alec.

 

[Nikki J]

Do you honestly believe that in the bold? Are you that arrogant and ignorant, that you believe any dog, ANY dog, will come to a recall from ANY activity with an e collar?


By all means happy to share my experience.

I have used multivet spray collars, an ultrasound collar (will need to check make at home) and a vibration collar (again brand escapes me), and a Dogtra.

I used to have sold charge of an employers labs when she was away. The dogs were awful for going off hunting, and as part of a wider behaviour development piece, she called in a highly respected dog behavioural therapist and obedience champion trainer.

She overhauled the exercise regime and the feed regime- the labs were over fed and under stimulated, and worked with owner and I with a Dogtra. Ten day acclimatisation period, working on a reward basis and doing basic tasks and normal recall as the dogs were accustomed to.

The test then came out walking off lead in woods- the pair went off hunting, the command "here" was given, and no recall came. So the trainer demonstrated the "zap", then call the moment the heads paused and the stride came up short. The dogs went to continue, were zapped once more at higher intensity, thought better of it and came back to much reward. Mission accomplished, the dogs were much MUCH better from then on, with occasional slip ups which involved more than one zap.

Success, and the product worked well.

I was fascinated, and had used spray collars on barking salukis in the past- those that bark at our perimeter fence- to good effect.

Trainer and I had a long discussion highlighting that salukis were such hunters it might be difficult. Trainer offered to assist me and try it out. Same process was used, both with one of my salukis whose recall is impeccable except when chasing, and one whose recall was hazy at best.

The tool failed, which I know you believe is impossible. I measure that failure, because a continued zap from the trainer and later from I had no effect on either, and trainer suggested that this was not the way forward.
I hope this provides a little more clarity as to why I believe that you are wrong in your adamency that an e collar will train any dog to recall. and yes, our definition of recall is the same.

Over the years, we in salukis have learnt that they come back when the prey is dead, or they have totally lost the trail.

I am still unconvinced, although even me in my arrogance and ignorance must surely allow you to know your breed!!

Correct me if I am wrong, but did you just "give up" on the e collar idea after just one session with this trainer? Clearly if this is the case - and you tell me that you were using a Dogtra, which is an excellent make, and assuming that the collar was in perfect working order and had good contact with the skin - then Salukis are an exception to the rule. It could be that you are perfectly right - if you want to pursue the idea, contact Lou Castle (I think that's his name) who produced a training video for Dogtra. I would think if you google this name coupled with Dogtra you would get plenty of links ... he has produced an excellent training video, which coupled with a dog behaviourist in Devon who gave us on the ground training - or rather on the beach! - it is well worth a viewing.

I don't mean to be arrogant or ignorant ... honest injun!!

 

[PolarSkye]

Yup . . . our lurcher Tilly was just like this. She would get on the scent of something, chase it, get on the scent of something else . . . ad infinitum. We lost her multiple times . . . the longest was for three hours and I had about given up on her and was going home (it's dark in them there woods) when she came limping back, exhausted. From that day forward, she was not allowed off the lead.

P

 

[Nikki J]

Ooops!! No idea where that bold came from!!!

 

[blackcob]

What!! On his own land ... that's a bit harsh!!

I rent a few acres of land for my horses. It's 'securely fenced' in that it's entirely surrounded by good stock fencing and a substantial hedge. I still keep mine on a lead there (albeit often very long leads!) because the landowner has a pet cat - it's unlikely that the cat would be hanging around the yard but having a confirmed cat-killer I won't take that risk again - and because there is a road on the other side of the hedge and sheep in neighbouring fields. Experience has taught me that even a new taut stock fence will not stop a husky in hunting mode. Been there, done that, spent half an hour frantically tracking a loose dog and ripping myself to shreds diving through hedges and down ravines to get it back before it could get on to a road or into livestock.

I quite agree. We used to live next door to a beautiful chocolate labrador who because he ran off once, was condemned to a life on the lead for ever more. He died at 10, overweight, with no muscle and terrible health problems related to the fact he never ran. He never ever even trotted, just walked beside his owners on a lead. I call this cruelty in the extreme.

Very sad but a life on the lead doesn't have to be like that. Just this week my dogs have had two 5k runs on both bike and rig, a 5k canicross run, daily free running of my bit of land with 50ft leads attached for as long as they want it, one had a competitive agility class in an indoor arena, both had an agility training session outdoors in a fenced paddock with opportunity for a free run afterwards. This is in addition to normal walks (minimum two hours a day) on 8m flexi leads. I am knackered, they are knackered and fit as fiddles. Nobody said 'on lead' meant being dragged around town once a day on a 4ft lead.

 

[Llanali]

I didn't mean to offend Nikki! I've really enjoyed the debate and thank you for your input. I didn't mean to imply you were arrogant or ignorant in general, but I did mean to voice my opinion, that in that statement I did feel you to be arrogant and ignorant.

The bold is fine- I am so incompetent technologically I'm surprised my quotes ever work!!

I'm keen to learn more - I do genuinely believe that salukis are an exception-they are in many ways (they will starve themselves to punish owners, they can eat dates and spit the stones out, raisins and damsons aren't poisonous, their blood counts are abnormal when healthy, their rib numbers vary etc etc) and as above with the labs, I have found e collars to be of great use, but not in a saluki.

I will admit though that we stopped trying the dogtra on them after that day because the trainer advised me to and she herself would not be comfortable zapping anymore than already done. Coupled with my own experience of other collars of this nature, and knowing that they didnt work in the chase, I came to the conclusion that they will stop at nothing. Though my elderly matriarch might stop for a sausage!!!

I have to assume the dogtra was in full working order, as it was lent by the trainer, and worked perfectly on the Labradors. But hands up I didn't check as I wouldn't know how skin contact wise, a saluki has a straight forward body coat, quite close cut and skin easily accessible so I can only assume this wasn't the issue either.

I'm really genuinely pleased your dog has found security and happiness, and you were willing to explore other avenues to get there.

 

[Llanali]

I'm also keen to point out that there may well be salukis that it might work on- just not mine it would seem. Perhaps other blood lines are different, I would highly doubt it but I suppose it's always possible. But I genuinely do feel they may well be the exception to the concept. There may well be other hunting hounds who react similarly- my experience is largely only of pure breds, but my knowledge would suggest a sloughi or afghan could be very similar.

 

[CorvusCorax]

We'll have to disagree - the e collar with my Ben IS extremely effective - look, he is a wolf cross with a huge prey drive. What chances do you reckon we would have of recalling him - or indeed ANY dog - who had got inside a pheasant breeding pen? Yes - I am ashamed to say that happened a year ago - the local landowner used to have a pheasant shoot on his land, and there was an area of woodland, about 1 or so acres, that was completely fenced off with high perimeter fencing all the way round so that the adult pheasants could fly in and out, but the young pheasants couldn't. This has now been abandoned, but all the feeders were still lying around, and the pheasants obviously still use it for roosting etc. because they know the foxes cannot get them. However, unbeknown to us, the fencing had been dismantled by one panel - making a gap of about 6 or 8 feet, through which of course dogs could go. The inevitable happened, Ben and Tai went through the gap as we walked past and before we could say Come - they were off, with pheasants and feathers going everywhere. Mike immediately barked "Come!" - nothing, so Ben got a zap from the collar set on a fairly low setting - 15. He registered this, but still did not come, so immediately hubby gave him a zap of 20 and instantly he recalled - but Tai was still on the hunt, and he paused - this was his big mistake. He then had a sustained zap and shot straight back to us, closely followed by Tai. Not one pheasant was hurt thank goodness, and we learned a lesson not to assume that because an area has been fenced off for ever, it may not necessarily still be so the next day.

Can you imagine a dog like Ben set loose amongst a flock of squawking pheasants coming back to us within a period of about 10 seconds without an e collar? Hell would freeze over before that would happen without an e collar.

By the way, he has never done this again - a neighbour's chickens escaped from their back garden the other day, and although Ben looked, he never attempted to chase them as they made a mad dash for their garden.

Hope this explains without appearing to be argumentative!

Yes but that is YOUR dog! Not all dogs are the same.
My dog's father snapped a tooth and dislocated a shoulder apprehending someone...did it stop him...no...the damage was only discovered about half an hour later, his drive and adrenaline carried him through.
Doubt a buzz from an electric collar would have stopped him.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Also, aren't salukis one of the oldest breeds in the world, they're a breed I would consider not that genetically far removed from the bedoiun dogs from which they originated. I do hate to use the 'arrogant' word but it would be arrogant of we humans to suppose that we can fight with that instinct.

 

[Llanali]

Absolutely CC, which links to my scepticism but open minded ness that other salukis might be different.
They are indeed the oldest breed, and the genetically purist; we breed incredibly carefully to preserve this. They look and behave almost identically to the Bedouin dogs of age; I have been to te international saluki centre in Dubai, a fascinating place of eye opening wonder- not least because my youngsters look just like the murals carved into rock. The Bedouin dogs now are much the same as our "domestic" salukis.

 

[Jools2345]

Yes but that is YOUR dog! Not all dogs are the same.
My dog's father snapped a tooth and dislocated a shoulder apprehending someone...did it stop him...no...the damage was only discovered about half an hour later, his drive and adrenaline carried him through.
Doubt a buzz from an electric collar would have stopped him.

that is why timing with the collar is so important if my lurcher had been in chase mode i dont think the collar would stop her, but when she 'put the cat up' the adrenalin is not yet flooding her body creating (IMM) the window in which the collar will work and she will create the the collar with the cat NOT me it was used with no voice commands.
it was not a quick fix for me it took a lot of time observing my dog (in order to try and solve the problem without the e-collar) to spot the window of opportunity that i felt would be most successful

 

[zigzag]

Sorry to intrude, but am pretty good with internet jargon, but cannot for the life of me work out what a DA dog is, Need enlightenment please !

 

[Llanali]

I think it means "dog aggressive" !!

 

[zigzag]

I think it means "dog aggressive" !!

Thank you!

 

[Superhot]

Traffic chaos in my rural village this morning, people everywhere, what on earth was going on? 2 Border Terriers were apparently running back and forth across the road, on the scent of something, soaking wet from running through the stream!!!! I always carry spare leads so the dogs were duly caught and the owner called. When he arrived he was extremely embarrassed and said they often escape from his garden. I asked him if he thought perhaps electric fencing and e collars might stop them, he said nothing would ever stop them when they're on the scent...and I thought of this thread...

 

[baileymoo]

I'm also keen to point out that there may well be salukis that it might work on- just not mine it would seem. Perhaps other blood lines are different, I would highly doubt it but I suppose it's always possible. But I genuinely do feel they may well be the exception to the concept. There may well be other hunting hounds who react similarly- my experience is largely only of pure breds, but my knowledge would suggest a sloughi or afghan could be very similar.

I completely agree that Saluki's are an exception. I also own a Saluki and at my wits end I let a very knowledgeable and reputable gundog trainer try an e collar on him for 4 training sessions. He has a good recall if there are no distractions. However it didn't do the slightest thing over the sessions even on full setting whenever he saw something on the horizion, nothing will ever stop a Saluki in full hunting mode. If you have ever seen one 'go' you will know there is no window of opportunity to stop them. I can stop mine trying to run up to other dogs if im quick enough but there is no way in hell id be superhuman enough to stop him if it was a rabbit. Mine has ran at full speed into a tree before and as result couldnt walk for days after, but at the time he got straight back up and carried on full pelt. They run on pure adrenaline and are constantly seeking out prey, and electricity will not go through that. They are terribly aloof which doesnt help, and no training or gadgets can override instinct.
He is walked for miles on all terrain a long line and is only let off in enclosed areas which i know. However i dont feel that he suffers due to this as he's fit, very well muscled and is as mentally stable as a Saluki can be..! I would be completely irresponsible if i let this dog off the lead and dont know any other Saluki owner that would risk letting theirs loose either.