Cannot ever let dog off lead.

[Llanali]

Bailey moo - how lovely to find another saluki owner, and very interesting to hear your comments echo mine so very closely.

As I alluded to in my comment "we saluki owners have realised they come back when it's dead", you have hit the nail on the head- I don't know another breed person that lets them off "in public". Private, enclosed, desolated yes, but a normal woods or field, no I'm afraid not. My brood bitch at the moment would kill another dog if it sprinted, and in time the pups will be the same. These are show dogs, so not dog aggressive, but they would have a bichon frise at the jugular and dead on impact before realising it was even a dog.

 

[Nikki J]

that is why timing with the collar is so important if my lurcher had been in chase mode i dont think the collar would stop her, but when she 'put the cat up' the adrenalin is not yet flooding her body creating (IMM) the window in which the collar will work and she will create the the collar with the cat NOT me it was used with no voice commands.
it was not a quick fix for me it took a lot of time observing my dog (in order to try and solve the problem without the e-collar) to spot the window of opportunity that i felt would be most successful

So well put! It is all about timing.

 

[Nikki J]

I completely agree that Saluki's are an exception. I also own a Saluki and at my wits end I let a very knowledgeable and reputable gundog trainer try an e collar on him for 4 training sessions. He has a good recall if there are no distractions. However it didn't do the slightest thing over the sessions even on full setting whenever he saw something on the horizion, nothing will ever stop a Saluki in full hunting mode. If you have ever seen one 'go' you will know there is no window of opportunity to stop them. I can stop mine trying to run up to other dogs if im quick enough but there is no way in hell id be superhuman enough to stop him if it was a rabbit. Mine has ran at full speed into a tree before and as result couldnt walk for days after, but at the time he got straight back up and carried on full pelt. They run on pure adrenaline and are constantly seeking out prey, and electricity will not go through that. They are terribly aloof which doesnt help, and no training or gadgets can override instinct.
He is walked for miles on all terrain a long line and is only let off in enclosed areas which i know. However i dont feel that he suffers due to this as he's fit, very well muscled and is as mentally stable as a Saluki can be..! I would be completely irresponsible if i let this dog off the lead and dont know any other Saluki owner that would risk letting theirs loose either.

O gosh, how very sad. They are amazing dogs, but I am beginning to understand now how intractable this problem is with Salukis. If after 4 training sessions there was absolutely no change, that would cause even me to think twice!

Can I just ask though what might be rather a distasteful question - did the trainer have the e collar on a high level sustain do you know? Such that the dog in question vocalised - I hesitate to use the word pain, because it is not the correct word, but let's say extreme discomfort? We have found once or twice with Ben ... and during our training session with a dog behaviourist in Devon ... a sufficiently high setting has had to be used to get through the red mist and make him listen. With Ben, this had to happen when he was on a long line, muzzled on a beach and we walking amongst other dogs who were all off lead and running around the beach. He showed aggression towards another large male dog and tried to jump on its back and pin it, so he had a zap but nothing, he ignored the command to Come - so he had a short burst which made him yelp and immediately return. It is always when we have met other male dogs that he can get arsey - not always by any manner or means - but always with large black males, and spaniels, but only occasionally with other breeds! With collies of all shapes, sexes and colours he is absolutely fine. It is very strange. Anyway, that is going off the point. I am not arguing with you, but merely asking the question do you think the trainer had the collar set on a high enough setting? Are you sure there was a good contact with the skin? Both these things are absolutely essential. I would be very interested to know.

 

[Nikki J]

Bailey moo - how lovely to find another saluki owner, and very interesting to hear your comments echo mine so very closely.

As I alluded to in my comment "we saluki owners have realised they come back when it's dead", you have hit the nail on the head- I don't know another breed person that lets them off "in public". Private, enclosed, desolated yes, but a normal woods or field, no I'm afraid not. My brood bitch at the moment would kill another dog if it sprinted, and in time the pups will be the same. These are show dogs, so not dog aggressive, but they would have a bichon frise at the jugular and dead on impact before realising it was even a dog.

Gosh, you are beginning to convince me on the intractability of the problem! I am hoping that Bailey moo will answer my questions I have asked about the dog trainer, but I can see your reasoning now. If Bailey moo does indeed confirm that the dog trainer was using the collar correctly and it was fitted correctly, then I concur that Salukis are super-dog and will endure extreme discomfort to reach their goal! Interestingly Ben's dog aggression is "only" against large black or dark coloured males, mostly labradors, rottweilers, german shepherds, but funnily enough not collies. Oh, and spaniels, for some reason he does not like spaniels. But with all females he is absolutely fine, and with small dogs of all breeds and sex up to the size of a spaniel - a Bichon would be absolutely safe with him. It is very strange. But he is a wolf cross and he has had a very hard earlier life, so we just have to accept it and make absolutely sure he cannot attack another dog. He doesn't inflict any damage, it is just all about pinning and noise and very distressing to see. He has only bitten another dog once (apart from our own Tai), and that was appalling enough.

We walk miles with our 2, but if they couldn't run free they would be an absolute nightmare, I don't know how we would keep them happy and well-balanced.

 

[Superhot]

I used to walk a rescued Saluki, together with my young Toller. The 2 dogs got along fine, but gradually the Saluki would start to chase my youngster, and once he had caught her, he would hold her down and start to choke her, to such a degree, my youngster ended up at the vets. I had to reluctantly tell the owner I couldn't walk her dog off lead any longer. She sought help from a behaviourist, but nothing ever changed. I couldn't trust that the Saluki wouldn't instinctively chase any small dogs he met, so better to be safe than sorry.

 

[baileymoo]

Bailey moo - how lovely to find another saluki owner, and very interesting to hear your comments echo mine so very closely.

As I alluded to in my comment "we saluki owners have realised they come back when it's dead", you have hit the nail on the head- I don't know another breed person that lets them off "in public". Private, enclosed, desolated yes, but a normal woods or field, no I'm afraid not.

Its very interesting to read your comments too, especially from someone obviously so knowledgeable about the breed! Yes I agree with the wont come back until its dead comments, mine has never managed to catch anything except a few squirrels but wont come back unless he has completely lost the scent...probably 3 miles away!

Can I just ask though what might be rather a distasteful question - did the trainer have the e collar on a high level sustain do you know? Such that the dog in question vocalised - I hesitate to use the word pain, because it is not the correct word, but let's say extreme discomfort? We have found once or twice with Ben ... and during our training session with a dog behaviourist in Devon ... a sufficiently high setting has had to be used to get through the red mist and make him listen. With Ben, this had to happen when he was on a long line, muzzled on a beach and we walking amongst other dogs who were all off lead and running around the beach. He showed aggression towards another large male dog and tried to jump on its back and pin it, so he had a zap but nothing, he ignored the command to Come - so he had a short burst which made him yelp and immediately return. It is always when we have met other male dogs that he can get arsey - not always by any manner or means - but always with large black males, and spaniels, but only occasionally with other breeds! With collies of all shapes, sexes and colours he is absolutely fine. It is very strange. Anyway, that is going off the point. I am not arguing with you, but merely asking the question do you think the trainer had the collar set on a high enough setting? Are you sure there was a good contact with the skin? Both these things are absolutely essential. I would be very interested to know.

Yes, whilst my Saluki is feathered they have not got thick fur, the collar was correctly fitting and the setting was worked up to the highest level, also on a continuous zap until the trainer felt it was pointless and unethical to carry on. He is in no way dog aggressive with any type of dog big or small but will run at full speed up to another dog and obviously this is dangerous and intimidating to other owners. The collar was used in several situations and when it was just dogs/people he was half heartedly running off to the collar made him yelp and did provoke a reaction, he did come back a couple of times. However once they set off for hunting it is a completely different kettle of fish and they just zone out, the collar was absolutely useless and had no effect whatsoever on the highest setting or on continuous mode. He is an absolute wimp as well, if he stands on a stone or turns a corner funny he will yelp and limp for a while. His pain threshold is not high in any way and he is an incredibly sensitive dog, he had a splinter once and wouldnt weight bare for 3 days. So you would assume he would react to a collar shocking him hysterically, however this just isnt the case.

 

[Llanali]

I can testify the wimps part too! One of ours bit a plum with a wasp in once, and was stung on the lip...... The neighbours rang to ask if everything was alright.... They were inside heir house, 400 yards away! The vet thought the dog was dying when he could hear over the phone!! But when the hunt is on...

We must do a salukis photos thread

 

[planete]

I am fostering a dog which looks as pure saluki as a paperless dog can look right now. I have had lurchers and greyhounds before but I have had to become a lot more careful and aware with his one than I have ever been. He is only ever loose in enclosed spaces (deer fencing) and I muzzle him before letting him run with his best mate my lurcher. I never let him run loose with my terrier as he seems to get drunk on his own speed and goes into attack mode when he gets close to anything alive. He is otherwise one of the gentlest, most affectionate dogs I have met and will play safely with the other dogs in smaller spaces where he cannot get into a full run.
He is also walked either on a short lead or on a fifteen metre training line and harness, plus muzzle in case a strange dog runs up to him. I thought his temperament might have been altered by his unknown past, but perhaps it is just genetics?

 

[Llanali]

Another one! Now we definitely need pics!

To me, the description of "drunk on his own speed" and going into attackode when close to
Anything alive, sounds just like a saluki. His past may have chequered him- and well done you for taking him on, he sounds like he has landed on his feet!- but he just sounds saluki to me too

 

[Nikki J]

Its very interesting to read your comments too, especially from someone obviously so knowledgeable about the breed! Yes I agree with the wont come back until its dead comments, mine has never managed to catch anything except a few squirrels but wont come back unless he has completely lost the scent...probably 3 miles away!




Yes, whilst my Saluki is feathered they have not got thick fur, the collar was correctly fitting and the setting was worked up to the highest level, also on a continuous zap until the trainer felt it was pointless and unethical to carry on. He is in no way dog aggressive with any type of dog big or small but will run at full speed up to another dog and obviously this is dangerous and intimidating to other owners. The collar was used in several situations and when it was just dogs/people he was half heartedly running off to the collar made him yelp and did provoke a reaction, he did come back a couple of times. However once they set off for hunting it is a completely different kettle of fish and they just zone out, the collar was absolutely useless and had no effect whatsoever on the highest setting or on continuous mode. He is an absolute wimp as well, if he stands on a stone or turns a corner funny he will yelp and limp for a while. His pain threshold is not high in any way and he is an incredibly sensitive dog, he had a splinter once and wouldnt weight bare for 3 days. So you would assume he would react to a collar shocking him hysterically, however this just isnt the case.

O my Lor! The highest zap Ben had was a 50, and he shrieked - I think our collar would go up to about 80 or 100. There is no way that Ben even with his double wolf coat would be able to tolerate anything higher than 50 without intense vocalisation, and of course it goes without saying this would be totally inhumane. Although I have to say that these collars do not work by giving an electric shock - the way they work is by muscle contraction, a bit like when you get a zap off a lift button or touching an electric fence. The "belt" you get from an e collar is caused by the static flowing between the 2 prongs on the collar that touch the dog's skin and causing the muscles to contract - a bit like those Slendertone machines we used to strap around our flabby tummies back in the 70's. The yelp from the dog and the subsequent "flick" of the head when the collar is set on a highish setting is caused by the surprise element and the contracting of the muscles in the neck. I would have thought that on the highest setting, a dog like a Saluki would be felled purely by the effects of having his neck temporarily stunned by the pulse, but obviously not!

Very scarey indeed!

 

[Nikki J]

Another one! Now we definitely need pics!

To me, the description of "drunk on his own speed" and going into attackode when close to
Anything alive, sounds just like a saluki. His past may have chequered him- and well done you for taking him on, he sounds like he has landed on his feet!- but he just sounds saluki to me too

Definitely like some piccies!!