Can't believe it...A warning to you all.

Perfect_Pirouette

Perfect_Pirouette

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I went skiing on the first of January and prior to that the horse that I full loan, 15hh cob gelding (one in sig) was looking a bit chubby, nothing else really, I hadn't been able to ride him for about 3 weeks due to snow and they'd been in a lot etc because of bad weather so I just put it down to that
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Anyway, came back from ski hol and after a week or so, looked at G properly and thought 'god he looks twice the size he did before I went away' He hardly had any feed anyway really, he was on half a scoop of Power and Performance and a handful of chaff. The past 3 weeks since the snow has been gone he has gone back to being ridden between 4-6 times a week, depending on weather and how much time I and the new sharer that I have have (who is now leaving in another 2 weeks as me and his owner are going back to sharing him) had. But I thought as he seemed to have ballooned slightly that I would cut it down even more to just a handful of P+P and a very small handful of chaff. But over the last week or so he doesn't look any slimmer- in fact even more fat!!
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He has a crest on his neck and his stomach is ginourmous.

Anyway, I was really worried and wanted to see whether I was just over-reacting or exaggerating or whatever so got his owner (who hasnt seen him properly in about a month as she's broken her wrist and can't drive) to go down Saturday afternoon to take a look at him and see what she thought. So she went down late afternoon and he was in his stable, rugged up etc. A livery pulled back his rug so she could see him properly etc (she couldn't due to broken wrist) She texted me straight away and said 'well he is a bit fat but not horrendus' Which I was like
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are we looking at the same horse?!

So yesterday I'd just finished riding and was untacking him and his owner came along as she was down there picking up a few bits and pieces. She stopped in her tracks when she saw him and gasped in horror at how fat he was. To which I was like, YES I told you. So anyway, today she rang vet (who knows horse very well, has dealt with him a lot in the past) and described his measurements etc and basically he is clinically obese. The vet says he has been having too much hay and that although people think they must have 24/7 forage so give them 2-3 haynets a night, if it's good hay (which ours is) it's very bad for them as they will put on weight.

So basically vet has said that he is not allowed hard feed for 12 months
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has given us an exercise regime and said we must mix his haynets with 80% hay and 20% straw and keep increasing it until it's 50% hay and 50% straw and hope he eats it.

We now have another problem as I have been riding in the GP for a couple of weeks as I took numnnah off dressage saddle to bring home and wash and kept forgetting it and last week the jumps were up so used GP. Anyway, put dressage saddle back on for first time yesterday and as soon as I sat down I was like 'woah' the pommel was so high
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So it obviously isn't fitting right anymore so I have to have saddle man come out on saturday to re-fit saddles so this week until then I have to lunge. I just cannot belive how in the space of literally a month he seems to have grown into this horrible obese creature
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The bloody snow we had and keep having hasn't and isn't helping as he was off work for a good few weeks over xmas and new year because of it and it looks like that's when he put alot of the weight on.

So just a warning really as the vet is adament that it is a result of too much hay, to not overfeed regarding hay as it really does bulk them up and can obviously cause the pounds to pile on and quickly
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Soak the hay for 24 hours to take the calories out of it and then he can eat more of it. Buy straw instead and feed him that.
 
Put his hay in two or three small holed haynets so he eats slowly I have also noticed that the grass is growing as well, which is unusual for this time of year, horses coming in with very green poos!!!!!!!!!!!

While we had the snow my big horse was lucky enough to have his grazing muzzle off but having monitored the greeness of their poos it has gone straight back on as he will eat and eat.

Plenty of trot work will help and if you can possibly ride or lunge twice a day that will help.
 
why was he getting any power and performance? I think thats pretty high energy
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not sure how it compares to others my cob is fit (and been hunting recently) on hifi and lo cal nuts with a smidge of sugar beet.

At least you noticed and can now follow the vets advice. IME with mine the quantity of work is key
 
It took you a week or so to look at him properly?
Should have been apparent from the moment you clapped eyes on him if he is obese!
Starving the poor bugger wont help now though.
What he needs is a decent exercise program, and a good look at his diet.
No vet I know would reccomend no hard feed for 12 months....such a lot could change in that long space of time.
It sounds like he is a seriously good doer, so needs to be on a diet to suit.
He should still be getting his 2% ratio of hay, but soak it to death first to get rid of some of the sugar and starch. Hay needs to be soaked for a min of 12 hours, and ideally 24 hours with a change of water after 12 hours.
Fibre is essential for a horses gut, so you could be doing more harm than good by rationing it to below the reccomended levels.
If he is eating his hay extra quick, double or even triple net it.
 
All horses are different. Mine go out all day with a bucket of chaff and a section of hay and then come in at night to a bucket of chaff, some high fibre nuts and a haynet each. I have never had weight problems with my horses except for the fact that they tend to drop off over the winter as all horses should to a degree, and mine are only excercised at the weekends during the winter months. One is a native x and the other a warmblood.

People tend to forget that native and 'cob' type horses and ponies can live off fresh air and are not designed for the lush grazing,constant supply of quality forage mixed in with several buckets of high energy mixes that they get offered every day.
 
One thing to remember here, vets are NOT nutritionists, they do around 6 hours on equine nutrition according to my vet.

I agree soak his hay for at the very least 12 hours and pref 24, this way you can keep his fibre levels up. He will also be lacking in vits/mins so would feed him a broad spectrum vit/min supplement in a tiny bit of low calorie chaff. DO NOT STARVE HIM this could cause even more problems.

I also do not understand why a cob in light/medium work was being fed Power and Performance, this is for competition horses and is in no way suitable for this type of horse with this type of workload.

I do understand that this happened whilst you were away and at least you tried to tell the owner about it.
 
What exactly are you warning about?!
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To make sure not to let your horse get so fat that it gets clinically obese...?!
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Hmm, hardly rocket science!
 
No it didn't take me a week to look at him, I noticed it but wasn't sure as I see him 4-5 times week whether I was just imagining it, then he really did seem to pile on the pounds this last week or so, hence why his owner came and had a look.

Yes I thought the no hard feed for 12 months was a bit extreme
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but maybe vet meant if he stays the current weight he is now?!

Well his exercise regime is between 4-6 times a week of about 45 mins schooling (quite intensive- he does a lot of dressage) once a month he's jumped for a few days a week whilst jumps are up at yard and he's hacked whenever the weather's good enough, which lately has hardly been at all as roads are so icy and tracks drenched. I admit his exercise regime has suffered these past 6 weeks or so which i'm sure has contributed heavily, but hasn't eveyones?! Wasn't there threads on here 'how long is it since you've rode?' etc he has had turnout and been on walker during this time of no exercise but honestly could not do anything else at some points in those weeks as schools were completely iced and frozen
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Am I right in thinking we talked about this horses bad behaviour prior to christmas and suggested cutting out all hard feed then too?
 
We have been feeding oat straw along with good hay all winter, this is a good old fashioned method of restricting calories without reducing bulk. We have 2 very good doers, out unrugged during the day, unless it is very wet, turned out for 12 hours each day. Once they are back in decent work, they may be given grass nuts if their weight drops before the grass comes through.
 
I think vet was just trying to get across that he probably doesnt need any true 'hard feed' chaff doesnt count. We are coming into spring so he certainly shouldnt be having any hard feed until next winter if at all.

Did you cut his feed down when he wasnt working due to the weather?
 
He's being fed P+P because he's very lazy in the school and can (sometimes, though not often) be a bit lazy on hacks too.

He's been on it ever since I started sharing him and the full loaning him. TBH I've never really thought about changing it, particularly over the last month or so when he's only being given literally a small handful
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This might not be an acceptable answer (and may be utterly inappropriate for your situation), but maybe if he is lazy in the school, it might be better to try spurs rather than rocket-fuel feed.

Anyway, that is a bit of a moot point now as you are dealing with your lad's weight problem. If i was you i would buy one of those sheepskin seatsaver things as you need to be doing loads of long slow bum-numbing work to build up his fitness and burn off his fat.
 
I'm sorry but IMHO 45 mins flat schooling per day isn't enough for an obese cob. You say you have access to a walker so if he was mine, he'd be on the walker every day PLUS ridden work. My IDx tends to be a fatty so he goes on the walker most days for an hour (30 mins each way) plus is worked 5-6 days a week (1 x long reining, 1 x in hand schooling, 1 x flat schooling, 1 x jumping/poles, 2 x hacks (more if I can ie I will hack after a schooling session if I can ride in the morning) or 1 x hack and a lesson/competitiong).

To manage his weight you can't just starve him, you have to increase the amount and change the type of work he's doing. Hacking is the best exercise he can get, at a good marching walk. If you can only hack at weekends then try to give him 1.5 hours or so those days.

I can't understand why a cob was being fed Power and Performance
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As a good doer, he should live off just hay and maybe a balancer to ensure he gets all of his vits and mins if there's a concern about that. If he's lazy (which I assume is why you're feeding P&P?) then the more weight he can lose, the better and more forward he will feel. Even when hunting, my IDx was only being fed a bit of chaff and high fibre nuts. He actually dropped weight while being stuck in at Xmas as he was so fed up, so he's now getting a bit more hard feed.

Are you sure he had actually changed weight and wasn't just looking a bit bloated through lack of work?
 
Frank can be very lazy, particularly when hacking, however I use spurs and a schooling whip, feed might help but I figure it would mostly go to his waistline so pointless.

SS he was seriously obese when I bought him midsummer so it can be done but as I said work was what worked for him.
 
Feeding up a cob is the lazy way to get it more forward going.

agree with CC...put it on a walker for 1hr per ay and school for 30 mins per day.

could also do with some hill work too if he's larger than in the sig, to get his arse end working properly
 
Ours had five weeks off due to the freeze and nobody put weight on because we fed haylage only and haylage and straw to the good doers.

You might find getting his weight RIGHT DOWN improves his energy and fittening him improves his stamina.

He looks huge in the pic in your signature, if that's him.

The way to reduce his weight safely is to change his feed over (not abruptly, but as soon as is practical - bearing in mind 'no sudden changes' to diet) and get working him. Properly. Twice a day if you can. Take his rugs off and if he's on straw, remember he might be stuffing his face on his bedding.

He's laminitis waiting to happen
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If he is usually overweight then this may be the cause of his being 'lazy'. In common with overweight people he may find it hard to be enthusiastic about moving forward as he is carrying unnecssary weight. This becomes a vicious circle as his metabolism will slow with his lack of energy being used in his work.
If he has a tendency to always be over weight, read the article in H&H this week about EMS.
 
is he clipped?..if not, get him clipped, and put lightweight rugs on until he looses the excess fat..as well as doing all the above..re exercise.
 
Best and obvious way to keep a check on him is to use a weigh tape. We have a horse on loan and this is how we keep a track of him. He was considerably overweight when we took him on and hes lost 85kg according to the tape. He does plenty of hacking out, this burns the calories and he has loads more energy. I would suggest you do that more than the schooling, he would find the schooling easier and be less lazy the fitter he is through hacking out, marching up and down those hills. It would also be less stressful on his joints and the jumping cant be very good for him if hes overweight. Thats the conclusion we reached when dealing with our good doer.
 
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Yes I thought the no hard feed for 12 months was a bit extreme
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but maybe vet meant if he stays the current weight he is now?!

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I would guess that your vet thinks it will take at least this length of time to get him back to a sensible weight.

This horse is obviously a 'good doer'. It is unlikely that he will need hard food for considerably more than 12 months unless his work load increases massively (maybe if you decide to take him hunting frequently). Our 'good-doer' cob spent the first 10 years of her life with us eating nothing but hay and grass. Since she has been in her twenties, she is less prone to keep her weight and so now is fed grass nuts as well as long fibre.
 
Ok,

well from now on, he isn't getting any hard feed.

I do use spurs.

I know 45 minutes isn't ideal but unfortunately he is kept a 45- 50 minute drive from where I work, I don't get to the yard til 6 and don't even begin riding until about 7.15 when everyone else has gone. And yes, i know it's stupid but i'm not entirely comfortable about being down there on my own at night. But I DO do 45 mins of hard work, I don't stop until he's worked up a sweat etc. I know it's not ideal but until the evenings start getting a bit lighter etc it's going to have to do.

I am going to ask the yard to put him on the walker for me everyday too when they bring him in.

At the weekends I will do what someone suggested and power walk him round roads etc for an hour and a half- not much hill work though unfortunately- this is Norfolk!

He actually is fine in that pic, that was taken agess ago and at the time everyone was commenting on how well he was looking, we were doing a lot of showing and the judges all said he looked great, which I KNOW doesn't mean a lot but honestly he was a fine weight, that picture makes him look a hell of a lot fatter as it had to be squashed to fit in sig.

He is also fully clipped.
 
To be honest it sounds like you have spotted the problem and are dealing with it - that's great, the worst thing is if you have people with fat horses who do nothing about it. In terms of doing more exercise things can only get better with the light etc. for getting out hacking.

Just a note about feeding the power and performance as you are being seemingly crucified for it - it does sound slightly ridiculous on paper to feed that BUT it's one of the most common things that feed companies get asked - "I have a good doer or fat horse that is really slow and lazy" the advice that tends to be given is firstly all the usually weight loss stuff soaked hay etc. etc. then work the horse to get the weight off and get it fitter - that way the horse is more inclined to go forwards. Get some schooling in (and a big schooling whip) and get the horse going off the leg etc. but also if (and only if) the horse hasn't had laminitis before and when the weight is off feed a small amount (half a scoop once a day maybe) of a cereal based mix e.g. cool mix or even a comp feed. The idea is that it will give a bit of spark or quick release energy. That's the theory and so it may be that that is where that aspect of the diet has come from.

Why not take half an hour out at the same time every week to weightape your horse and also photograph him stood up up against a wall, you could even condition score him too - I was having a look at the Spillers facebook group earlier today and they ave a video of condition scoring on it to give you a guide.

Good luck but remember not to starve him (call the feed companies if you need some advice).
 
What you have to take into consideration is that "cob" is a very broad grasp of a breed, and cobs differ SO much in build between.
I would also agree that the horse is carrying too much weight in your sig, but that said, there are a lot that would say a fair amount of cobs at a high level showing are also carrying too much.
Don't starve him, but he certainly won't need any hard feed unless you are planning to hunt him twice a week! Soak his hay to take the calories out, and keep a close eye on him.
 
TBH I agree with the others that have said about rugging. Just get a lightweight rug on to prevent a chill but not to keep him warm. Being cold is natures way of dealing with excess weight - which is why wild animals spend their entire summer to piling on as much fat as possible. That way your not interfering with the digestive tract at all and you can still feed the right amount of fibre.
 
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