can't believe some people - loaners

[xspiralx]

Agree with Tia really.

Believe that the owner should pay insurance though perhaps loaner could have paid the difference if the price was raised because of her.

Tis a little rude but I don't think its really a heinous crime. She did at least give 28 days, which is basically a month, unless you're going to be petty about it!

Unfortunately the whole business can just be a real pain. I only loaned a horse once and the other was a total nightmare. She criticised everything I did with him, had an absolute fit because we were moving him to another livery yard [about 2 miles away, and a lot closer to where she lived], even though I'd told her several weeks previously and she was fine with it, we just hadn't finalised the actual date because it depended on selling my pony. She eventually stopped me from competing him, though that was what he lived for and I didn't even do an excessive amount [I heard he went off the rails when moved to a quiet hacking home] so I gave her notice to return him - I said 3 months, as we'd agreed that, but if she could find a new home quicker it would be good.
About a week later I got a text as I was leaving work, saying "get Jasper's stuff ready, I'm taking him away at 3.30" [the time was 3.15]. When I got to the yard she was very cold, basically a real b*tch, and didn't even let me say goodbye. ugh.

 

[Santa_Claus]

Its because our YO offers a VERY flexible service in that they can muckout oneday not the next , turned out or brought in, rugs left etc each day individually as you want, and you are billed for each individual item. Also if need be if you get stuck they can do horse on full or bring in and leave rugs if getting dark at short and late notice which most yards don't offer. Basically YO protecting her income which you can't really blame them for!

 

[FMM]

The loaner really sounds as though she has no idea that she has upset anyone! Some people are pretty thick skinned and this sounds like one of them.

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
wouldn't you want to be at vetting of a new horse if its been vetted within 30miles of you i know I would!)

[/ QUOTE ]
No not neccesarily. I might not be able to - might not want to be tbh just in case it failed - and I STILL bought the bloomin thing!!

You are defending your friend, which is admirable. But think you;re being a little OTT about it if I'm honest and blown the whole situation out of proportion.

No one has died, horse is not damaged, dumped, neglected. End of.

 

[Tia]

The owner didn't even bother to get back to the loaner on the first day?? Aww I think I might have to dip out of this conversation - I CANNOT believe that the owner of the horse did not have a conscience and make damn sure that the horse was secure.

Sounds like a REALLY stupid game is being played by the owner and now I know I have absolutely no sympathy for her. Sounds like she is really miffed at having her horse back.......poor blooming horse.

 

[the watcher]

I think being billed like that would make my head spin!

 

[Santa_Claus]

i do agree with Tia to extents a lot just comes down to this individual situation. Don't be wrong a lot has been learnt because of this and the owner will not loan out without a contract again and will make sure all costs are clearly agreed on before commencement etc.

A lot comes downt o owner being far too nice for her own good half of the time and not wanting to interfer whilst the horse was on loan as normally thats the worst owner you can get from a loaner's point of view especially when on same yard!

I'm sure will all blow over but I have obviously got too many morals and find her behaviour appalling.

Going to go home now and ride and more impotranly find out whether the horse passed

 

[Santa_Claus]

no i think you are getting the wrong impression. she prepared herself for the fact it may well come back on the wednesday but she had hoped the loaner would have had the common decency to call (i'm useless at explaining things i'm sure). she would NEVER have abandoned the horse (she loves him far too much to even consider it) and was ready to do everything to the extent she changed her work shift that day but she was meaning by not replying to make the loaner actually pick up the phone and speak to her.

as for the vetting thats another just me then! If i was available on the day it was vetted and close by I know I would go as I would like to see how it acts!

 

[Tia]

No I think I understand correctly - the owner was playing some game with the loaner trying to push her into phoning her when the owner could very well have been the adult and phoned the loaner - that's exactly what I would have done. I certainly would not have considered not replying that's for sure - my horses mean an awful lot to me and there is no way I wouldn't want to know exactly what was happening with them and organising everything for their return.

Yes the loaner was possibly a bit wrong to text, but then the owner was even worse to not reply.

If I was you I honestly wouldn't get too involved in this. There are always 2 sides to every story and who knows, it has happened many a time on HHO that the other side does come to light from a new member who registers just to say their peace.....

 

[ladylisa]

I dont think the loaner should have phoned her back, she was good enough to loan her horse out to this person the least she could expect would to be told about the arrangments from the loanee over the phone and not by text!!!

 

[Tia]

Well everyone will have their own ideas about what should have been done. I just know that there is no way I would have been so petty in this whole scenario as MY horses are too important to play any childish games over.

 

[Weezy]

I have ALWAYS and ALWAYS will pay for my horses insurance when they go out on loan - therefore it takes pressure off the loanee (say horse trips and breaks its leg in the field) and I KNOW that should the horse be injred, maimed or other it will be taken care of

 

[burtie]

[ QUOTE ]
Loaning should only really be done if the owner can take the horse back at a moments notice. If not, then the horse really ought to be sold as it puts undue pressure on both owner and loaner if things go wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's a little harsh. I have loaned my mare and although in an extreme circumstances I could take her back the next day, I would have to pull in a lot of favours and it could be very inconvienient. Obviously something I would only do if I felt the horse was being severely neglected. However even though I do have a months notce in my agreement I would take the mare back as soon as possible for my own peace of mind and certainly not leave her there for the full month if she was no longer wanted. Selling is not really an option in my case as valueing her would be almost impossible and I'm not about to part with her for meat money.

 

[Skhosu]

I am not seeing a huge amount of issue here. MAybe the loaner could have rung.
I paid for insurance when horse was on loan(to someone else)....
She gave notice, 28days=1 month as far as I'm aware?
I actually don't think there is a big issue here, when selling/buying dates do change.Do you expect her to pass up on a horse because of 2 days when the original owner wouldn't take back?
A contract wouldhave solved all this, and technically she didn't need to give any notice at all!
I think owner should have rung to clear up wednesday issue, it's just petty not.
However, maybe sounds better than loan is over? Why not just be civil? No point in bad feeling..

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
28days=1 month as far as I'm aware

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep.......so long as it is February!!

 

[Santa_Claus]

*quickly pops in whilst getting changed to go to yard!*
i understand everyone's opinions and Tia I can certainly see how it seems like 'a game' trust me it was not. The horse will never receive anything other than the best care from its owner. And yes I know the other party could well come on and give everyone their side to be honest would be interested to hear it myself to see if she could really be that niaeve!!

Also can see how it can seem like nothing to other people. There is more history which I won't take the effort to type out as I think it would make little difference to those who don't know the whole situation.

At the end of the day i stick to that I would only treat others how I would like to be treated myself, and If I acted in the same way as this loaner I would want someone to hit me for being so unreasonable. that is my personal opinion only!

If I was the owner I wouldn't expect her to pass over a horse over 2 days, I would expect her though to keep to the agreed day and if her sitation changes either ask me by phone to see if i my plans mean I could take the horse back early or organise with the very flexible YO to have him on full for two days (and the humongous cost of £10 total) till the agreed date. That to be doesn't seem in any way unreasonable, I know its how I would treat Fleur's owner if I was in the same situation.

And off tangent re the comment about being billed for the flexible livery its actually very simple there is a chart up each week which the owner fills in daily with what they want done and then you receive an itemised bill accordingly. Any queries and the chart can be referred to as the original is kept each week. I have been at the yard 5+ years and it works perfectly for me! I'm heading there now knowing Dan and Fleur are in with hayledge but rugs are left and all i have to do is muck out, ride, feed and rug for the night!

Katie

 

[jayvee]

Call me lucky(ish) but I have delt with 2 loans of sorts..
1) offered my mare for riding, to stay at present yard etc, all expenses seen too (by me), and a writen contract was drawn up. In return the horse was available for the 'loanee' to ride when and how often she wished. She was a young mother so the deal worked for both of us. I charged £45.00 pwk + the shoeing -thats all. This was perfect for 2yrs, she finally gave plenty of notice when she could no-longer continue. All was happy. And when vet was once required, she offered to pay, even though it was not brought on by her, ie reckless riding. It was a fair deal and not for money in my pocket as her keep/ins/feed etc was maintained by me as I could not let her go out of my sight. The financial contribution helped and covered most things. I would def do this arrangement again if I had to.

Case 2) I arranged for my aunties horse to be fully loaned out to my boss. Brand new rugs etc, she got the lot. And I would care for her (I manage their private yard). The mare was found with a broken hind leg in field this summer (just one of those freak accidents)! She was never insured prior or after loaning (though advised boss to do so). My boss paid for absolutely everything, vets emergency call out, euthansia and the carcase collection. Both parties were understanding and above all sorry she had to go that way. (And I felt gulity for bringing her here, thinking it would then have never happened! (Stupid thought I know).

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
I would want someone to hit me for being so unreasonable

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too!! If I behaved like either of those two then I would want someone banging my head against a wall!

 

[Santa_Claus]

well as said the owner has learnt many lessons from this situation and the situation will not be allowed to be repeatef! can't say I would personally hit her in my opinion as again I can't see much wrong with her behaviour but as said thats my opinion and you'll never get everyone always agreeing

off to neds now and to see if there is a new livery on the yard!!!

 

[crazypony]

The way I see it, owner pays death / theft insurance, loaner pays vets etc.
If you own a horse and loan it out you should be happy to take it back if it doesnt work out WHENEVER. Not be pi$$ed off because it's winter. If she can't afford to keep it then sell it.

I'm sorry, but the fact the owner ignored the loaners text was rather immature. I presume the loaner is now feeling as though she's done something wrong, hence the reluctance to speak to the owner on the phone.
you can't loan a horse out with no agreement then moan the agreement hasnt been stuck to. Perhaps your friend should re-think her actions and stop causing an atmosphere on the yard for others.

 

[Blazingkate]

I have my horse on loan and I pay for everything, including insurance, apart from vet bills. I've found this to be fair enough because the insurance is only once a year, and covers me as well as my horse and the owners, and at the end of the day he is still their horse so it agreed they will pay vet bills.

 

[GTs]

I put this in the category of horse drama - I feel sorry for the horse having to put up with owners, and loaners like this. If I was it, I would sell them to the meat men, and go and find myself a nice family!

 

[Santa_Claus]

Well i'm back the horse passed and is at the yard (seperate section to where me and owner are).

The reason the loaner texted and didn't ring is definetly not because she thought she had done wrong its just her.

Again as said owner isn't complaining particulary about getting back at winter it was actually a comment I made about the loaner. Owner may well feel the same but it was my comment not hers.

Also once again say that having horse back won't make her bankrupt just means she has to sacrifice a few things. If she gets to point she seriously can't afford to keep the two I am in no doubt she will sell one as afterall she isn't stupid!

Feel I'm going in circles now! Have vented my frustration on the matter, nice to see some agree me, interesting to hear the opinions of those that don't and GTs couldn't agree with you more sometimes!!!!

Katie

 

[Seahorse]

I am so lucky, the people that have my pony on loan are wonderful!!
When they first took him on they offered to pay for his insurance, I said that I was happy to keep on paying it as I felt is was my responsibility as his owner. However I bought another horse soon after and had 3 lots of insurance to pay, coming to about £80 a month.
I phoned the loaners and explained the situation and asked if they could insure Bryn themselves and they didn't mind at all.
They have had him for nearly 3 years now, and I couldn't ask for anyone better. They pay for everything and look after him incredibly well. Unfortunately the girl has outgrown him now but they phoned me at the end of october to say they would give him back in the spring!
And we have never signed a contract

Sam x

 

[Weezy]

OH! Bryn may need another home? Or is your goregous girl going to have him?

 

[Skhosu]

lol, but legally I think it is accepted as a month?

 

[M_G]

I have put my pony out on loan and if the loaner called me one day to say can you come & take your horse back I would be there like a shot yes it may be inconvenient but in the end its the owners horse and ultimatly the owners responsibility surely the horses best interests overcome any petty squabbles.

Perhaps thats just me though

X

 

[Snowberry]

I've alway paid for a horses insurance - if I loan one of ours out I pay the insurance and when I've loaned other peoples horses in the past I also paid the insurance

Maybe I am a soft touch!?!! lol

I'd be more peed off at being text - texting really annoys me, its cowardly. But then I wouldnt text back, I'd be calling.
If anything goes wrong with ponies we're loaning out all the loaners know to call me - if they text me they know I'll call them straight away. Things shouldnt be sorted out via text (grrrr

Can you tell it annoys me!)

Apart from that I think its just another day in horseland.....she's a bitch, she's a bigger bitch etc.......Unfortunate that you didnt have a written contract and I'm sure she'll have one for the next loaner (although a contract wouldnt have made much difference, if they want to send the horse back NOW they can!)
Tack always comes back trashed!! LOL

I hope your friend manages to find a new loaner.