Can't obtain a covering certificate! Help?!

[sarah164]

I am at the end of my tether and no idea how to proceed with this.
I took my mare to a yard to be covered last year, the lady has 5 stallions there, some she owns some she just has there at stud.
We chose a TB stallion called Omanii and took my mare to him and she was scanned in foal. I paid the stud fee and keep up front. All vet bills were sent to me direct.
I chased the covering certificate for a bit but then forgot about it and thought it was no big deal until we had the foal delivered safe and well really. An oversight on my part.
I should add that the lady was recommended to me and we know a lot of the same people so I didn't feel too concerned about things. She treated my mare very well as well.
So this year my mare foal and we had a lovely foal and decided in her foaling heat to take her back to same place but to use a different stallion. So i have since been chasing covering certificates and no joy yet. This has been going on since May. She has moved house (not far, less than 500yds) and was using that as an excuse to start with but we are still no further on and i have since found 2/3 other people who have failed to obtain a covering cert for this stallion! I have a copy of his pedigree and passport. I rang wetherbys who he is passported to and he is not registered as a stallion there.
SHGB cannot really offer any advice! I really do not want to register the foal with unknown sire which is what i will have to do before long. I have messaged her every week nagging her for it and she either doesn't reply or fobbs me off. She has since told someone else who is chasing that she has the stuff but needs to fill it out. I told her that i was led to believe thats the case and she agreed but still no joy.
I just don't want to let it slide because i have potentially two foals at stake and i am going to be showing the one this year and before long he will need his own passport.
Any advice very gratefully received!!!!

 

[be positive]

My understanding is that the stallion needs to be registered as a covering stallion with a society who will then issue the certificates, it sounds as if these stallions are not registered anywhere, they may have passports but that means very little, if the stallion owner is cutting corners it is too late to do any more than apply for a passport that relates to your mares breeding.

Omanii brings up no results on google/ racing post which suggests he is not standing at stud in the normal way although I am surprised someone can stand 5 stallions and have no website that comes up in a search.

 

[sarah164]

Yes thats what I understand. She simply ignored me when I asked who he was registered as a stallion with.
If this is all 'dodgy' for want of a better word, who would she be accountable to? If anyone?

 

[be positive]

Yes thats what I understand. She simply ignored me when I asked who he was registered as a stallion with.
If this is all 'dodgy' for want of a better word, who would she be accountable to? If anyone?

Sadly accountable to no one, years ago all stallions were licensed but now anyone can keep a stallion for stud duties if they want with no requirement to register or license them, it is something you probably don't really think about until it is too late, you will probably have two nice foals of "unknown" or unproven breeding which will not promote the stallions or any siblings and goes against what most responsible breeders are aiming for.

 

[ihatework]

I’m sorry you find yourself in this situation, but it’s probably a good learning point for any future breeding attempts! Use reputable stud & stallion.
A few years ago I bought a rather back shed bred horse, but the people selling him to me did manage to get AES breeding passport done before selling based on DNA testing, I don’t know if that’s an avenue to go down with the stallion owner if they aren’t intending on getting the stallion licenced

 

[sarah164]

Fortunately the other stallion I’ve used Hollyland O’donovan seems traceable through the Internet so by hook or by crook I should be able to obtain a covering cert for the foal due next year. Yes certainly something I would be aware of in the future you just don’t imagine it happening as it’s in the owners interest to want to have this information recorded. My issue is I don’t know who owns the stallion so not sure who to pursue in terms of taking it all further apart from the lady who has him on stud.

 

[sywell]

This is a common problem in Germany you would have protection as the breeding rules are contained in the German civil code so it could be a criminal offence to stand an unlicensed stallion never use an unlicensed stallion. The option open to you is to get an id only passport and having had the mare DNA tested ask Weatherbys to allow you to have a copy of the DNA profile of the stallion so you can then prove the parentage. You could then ask SHGB to upgrade your ID only passport to a passport for a register horse and you would then have a passport to allow the horse to compete anywhere in europe as a registered horse. A registered horse is a horse with concessions on travel and parentage tested.

 

[GemG]

Just skim read... have you gone and visited this lady face to face for a chat about it? I know you've phoned and she sounds like she's just sticking her head in sand? Surely she wouldn't have 5 x stallions and have one completely unreg/unlicensed with no intention of issuing a cover slip? Or am I being naive... it just sounds like a two minute job that she's not getting done (I'm not making excuses for her, as if she can't be bothered filling in a simple covering cert then she shouldn't have visiting mares!).

It's just strange as no cert means her stallion not on the pedigree. Surely she would want him shown as Sire as its good advertising and nice to see in future if progeny does well etc, especially if the mare is a good one.

 

[sywell]

Donnersohn is thought to be the best bred dressage horse in the U.K may be the best bred but is not licensed Hanoverian and on the website it mentions Scottish Sports Horse which no longer exists. Without DNA parentage testing you can never be certain you have got what you paid for.

 

[Violet]

Fortunately the other stallion I’ve used Hollyland O’donovan seems traceable through the Internet so by hook or by crook I should be able to obtain a covering cert for the foal due next year. Yes certainly something I would be aware of in the future you just don’t imagine it happening as it’s in the owners interest to want to have this information recorded. My issue is I don’t know who owns the stallion so not sure who to pursue in terms of taking it all further apart from the lady who has him on stud.

It looks like he is BSPA and CHAPS graded. Registered with BSPA, CHAPS and Scottish Sporthorse. Breeder Hollyland Stud. Looks like owners are Mel and Darren at http://www.southwaycobs.com/stallions.htm

 

[cundlegreen]

I have a Welsh D stallion here who had to go through his licensing which included a full vetting, with the WPCS in order to get covering certificates. I'm sure its the same for all passporting authorities. Any stallion standing at stud should have been vetted in order to be licensed. Sounds like somebody who just wants to allow any mare to any stallion, and I'd be surprised if any of them are tested for EVA etc. At the end of the day, you have bred foals who can't show any breeding details on the stallions side. That's fine if you are breeding for yourself, but there are so many badly bred and conformed horses out there because of breeding practices like this. As far as I am concerned, I would want to see a stallion that has competed to show he's sound, with proven bloodlines and properly licensed....

 

[Traklover]

Sarah164 have you managed to get the covering certificate yet?