Can't pick up youngsters feet

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aoibhinn98

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Hey everyone, how's it going 😊

I have been out of horses for the last 18months since I started college away from home, however this semester I am on placement at home so decided to look for a horse. Ended up buying a 4yo and (believe me I am kicking myself) never tried to pick up her feet when I tried her. Wasn't able to pick up her feet at home but figured it was because I didn't have anyone to hold her/help me with it.

Have her 2 weeks and the farrier was out last Saturday because she pulled a front shoe. No way in hell were we getting the shoe on her anyway, she was kicking, lunging forwards the whole lot. The second he left the feet alone she was standing quiet as a lamb. I bought her from a dealer and my farriers advice was that this was 'dangerous' and to try get her sent back as she was deliberately trying to hurt him.

Buuttttt alas, guy I bought her from is not answering his phone (been trying since Saturday) and also visited his yard last night but no signs of him around. I have been trying to desensitise her to it, rubbing my hands down her front legs (managed to get down as far as below the knees) and rewarding with a 'good girl' and treats. Does anyone have experience with this? Is it possible to train them to lift their feet or is it something that's never going to happen? I am absolutely kicking myself and so so sickened about this, can't believe that I was so stupid 😭 Any advice really appreciated, sorry for the long post!
 
I bet you are kicking yourself, picking up feet is almost the first thing to do when viewing and I guess you didn't have her vetted either, anyway you will probably find the dealer will disappear and unless you are prepared to fight you are stuck with a nervous young horse that was shod without any preparation, possibly sedated to get them on for a quick sale.

If she is otherwise ok get working on her, treat her as if she is nervous and take your time, if she has to be sedated to get the others off then do so and keep her barefoot, probably best for her in many ways, while you work on handling her, she should come right in time although shoeing and farriers may always be a concern for her, one of mine was terrified of the farrier an had to be sedated for ages but did eventually accept my farrier who took time with him and he could be hot shod after a while.
 
I did get her vetted alright and believe me I am so annoyed with myself, it didn't even cross my mind. Lesson learned the hard way. Why do you think barefoot would be best? I haven't ever tried it with any horse before so just curious. With your fella how long did you have to sedate him for and how did he eventually decide to accept farrier?
 
I used to buy and train 4yos professionally, and most of them did not know how to pick up their feet when we got them.

To be fair to the horse, if he/she had not been taught how to balance and pick the foot up, then you grab the foot, they probably feel like you are tipping them up, so will try to put them back down, and if you don't let go they feel like you are putting them at mortal risk.

I would get a good instructor to help you learn to handle a baby. It is a mix of being firm with what you do ask, but only asking for what they can achieve.

To be fair though, it does not sound like a green 4yo is a perfect match, and one that you are having doubts about, so if the dealer will take back then I would also go for that option. As it is not really a faulty horse I would be prepared to take a cut in value.
 
It will come if you work quietly with her. Don't force it. I think it wouldn't be a bad thing to sedate her and get the shoes off for now. Are there any signs on her feet (old nailholes) that she had ever been shod before the set she has on. The dealer probably just got a set on somehow to sell her and ended up just frightening her. Best to keep her barefoot while you spend the time handling her legs and getting her used to things. Once she is totally happy with you handling them you can think of shoes if she needs them (she might not)
 
aoibhinn98 said:
Is it possible to train them to lift their feet or is it something that's never going to happen? I am absolutely kicking myself and so so sickened about this, can't believe that I was so stupid 😭 Any advice really appreciated, sorry for the long post!
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I'm certainly no expert, but it must be something that a horse can learn.

I don't have my own horse, I ride at a yard and school just up the road from my house. At a shade under six feet tall and 95kg, I'm a bit limited in the horse I can ride, but there are four that I rotate through.

My favourite, Tiger, a 17hh bay, is really good: he lifts his feet for me the minute he sees me approach him with the hoof pick in my hand.

Another will lift her foot as I run my hand down her leg. Another will give her front feet, but will kick if I try to get the back ones...

I started a thread about my theory of balance soon after joining the forum, you might find some of the replies useful and interesting.
 
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amymay said:
How did she react at the vetting when the vet picked up her feet?
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Yes I was wondering that.

OP for now I would get vet and farrier out together, get her sedated and get her shoes pulled. Then you won't be under as much time pressure to get her picking her feet up, as if you are riding/ walking her on roads her feet will wear naturally. Start off by getting her really confident having her feet and legs handled - lots of brushing, running your hands up and down and even tapping. Once she is completely happy with this, start trying to lift up her legs. Gently nudge her shoulder with your shoulder to get her to shift her weight off the leg you are trying to pick up, then lift, hold for a second and put down. Start very slowly and build up gradually. If she is unhappy with her legs and feet being handled initially, you can use a stick or long whip to touch them with to start with (some people like to inflate a rubber glove and attach to the end) as you will be out of kicking distance! She will learn, it's not uncommon for youngsters to be funny about their feet at first, although unusual for a set of shoes to be on before they have been desensitised. My experience has usually been one of two ways - either they kick out when having legs and feet handled, or they don't understand the message of lifting their leg. But they've all got there in the end, it just takes longer for some than others.
 
If she was vetted OP, they will have picked up all 4 feet. Did the vet report any issues to you on that front?

Is it all feet she behaves like this with?
For the time being I would get cracking with desensitising her, but please be careful and wear a hat. Does she let you touch and brush her legs?
 
I used clicker training with mine when she was a baby and she now picks up a foot when I point at it and ask her. I think this works well because she knows she can move to balance herself before I touch her foot.
I started with a 'hand on a stick' and she got a reward for just picking a foot off the ground, even if it was only for a moment. We built up gradually, so foot off the floor, letting me touch the foot off the floor, letting me hold it. It was quick with her but then she hadn't had any bad experiences. Something similar should work for yours but you might have to be quite patient.
Mine is barefoot and never needs anything trimmed so no issues with farrier!
 
Gloi said:
It will come if you work quietly with her. Don't force it. I think it wouldn't be a bad thing to sedate her and get the shoes off for now. Are there any signs on her feet (old nailholes) that she had ever been shod before the set she has on. The dealer probably just got a set on somehow to sell her and ended up just frightening her. Best to keep her barefoot while you spend the time handling her legs and getting her used to things. Once she is totally happy with you handling them you can think of shoes if she needs them (she might not)
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It is not that unusual, As above best advice, no point in worrying about if the dealer will take the horse back just get on with it.

One of mine was the same used to crush me into the wall if I tried to pick his hooves up
Until the day the wall had a schooling whip on it I could reach
Then we had the usual dropping to the floor and a quite clever crossing the leg I was trying to pick up with the other front leg.
Then we had to get him cold shod for a while as hated the smoke but now he is fine.
 
Have already had an instructor out and she advised that as mare is really sweet to ride that feet should come with lots and lots of time. However farrier reckoned that it was a nasty streak in her as she didn't seem nervous in the slightest so these conflicting opinions are quite confusing. Vet told me horse was perfect then when i rang him back about feet he said that it had been difficult to get all four up. She is much worse with hind legs so I have been focusing on front ones this week until I get around to attaching a woven bag full of straw to a stick to then rub them with. The set of shoes on her is her first set and they are only about 3 weeks old, so quite surprising that one came off already. One theory is that maybe the vet scared the **** out of her doing flexion test, although I doubt it would result in a problem this big? Since farrier was out though she is not a bit happy when I am trying to get girth and martingale done up as she thinks I am going at her legs, even with the work I have done rubbing them down.

Rephrased original post badly i think, I do understand that young horses can be nervy about their feet and of course that can be trained out of them but it was the fact that farrier reckoned that she was being very nasty about it and he said that he hadn't seen a horse like this in a very long time, so unsure if she is just nervous or is just going to try plaster us if we try again. Also did some digging and the farrier that put on the set of shoes said that she was sedated and it was still difficult to put them on, whatever that means. Not sure if we have a strong enough argument for dealer to take her back as she is fine in every other way, but he did tell me that she was perfect to shoe and stood quietly.
 
Keith_Beef said:
I'm certainly no expert, but it must be something that a horse can learn.

I don't have my own horse, I ride at a yard and school just up the road from my house. At a shade under six feet tall and 95kg, I'm a bit limited in the horse I can ride, but there are four that I rotate through.

My favourite, Tiger, a 17hh bay, is really good: he lifts his feet for me the minute he sees me approach him with the hoof pick in my hand.

Another will lift her foot as I run my hand down her leg. Another will give her front feet, but will kick if I try to get the back ones...

I started a thread about my theory of balance soon after joining the forum, you might find some of the replies useful and interesting.
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Had a look at that thread, very interesting theory thank you :)
 
I breed and produce young horses. It is not unusual behaviour. Is there anyone near you that is experienced with young stock? (this may well not be your instructor) I would suggest you find someone who breaks/produces horses and ask them for help. Maybe you will have to send the horse to them for a week or two and then visit and check you can manage. Sedating in the interim is an option but not a long term solution.
 
aoibhinn98 said:
Have already had an instructor out and she advised that as mare is really sweet to ride that feet should come with lots and lots of time. However farrier reckoned that it was a nasty streak in her as she didn't seem nervous in the slightest so these conflicting opinions are quite confusing. Vet told me horse was perfect then when i rang him back about feet he said that it had been difficult to get all four up. She is much worse with hind legs so I have been focusing on front ones this week until I get around to attaching a woven bag full of straw to a stick to then rub them with. The set of shoes on her is her first set and they are only about 3 weeks old, so quite surprising that one came off already. One theory is that maybe the vet scared the **** out of her doing flexion test, although I doubt it would result in a problem this big? Since farrier was out though she is not a bit happy when I am trying to get girth and martingale done up as she thinks I am going at her legs, even with the work I have done rubbing them down.

Rephrased original post badly i think, I do understand that young horses can be nervy about their feet and of course that can be trained out of them but it was the fact that farrier reckoned that she was being very nasty about it and he said that he hadn't seen a horse like this in a very long time, so unsure if she is just nervous or is just going to try plaster us if we try again. Also did some digging and the farrier that put on the set of shoes said that she was sedated and it was still difficult to put them on, whatever that means. Not sure if we have a strong enough argument for dealer to take her back as she is fine in every other way, but he did tell me that she was perfect to shoe and stood quietly.
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I would try to get a farrier who is used to dealing with nervous/young horses. I had a farrier who told me my horse was dangerous and had to be sedated. I was horrified by this! Turns out farrier had handled him roughly when the horse had a cut on his hind leg - so when horse reacted by pulling his leg away farrier deemed my horse 'dangerous'. When I moved horse to another yard the farrier there had no problem at any time during the two years the horse was there!
 
OldieButGoodie said:
I would try to get a farrier who is used to dealing with nervous/young horses. I had a farrier who told me my horse was dangerous and had to be sedated. I was horrified by this! Turns out farrier had handled him roughly when the horse had a cut on his hind leg - so when horse reacted by pulling his leg away farrier deemed my horse 'dangerous'. When I moved horse to another yard the farrier there had no problem at any time during the two years the horse was there!
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Farrier is very good in fairness, has been shoeing for us since we got our first pony which is about 8 years ago. We have a 14.2h mare for the last 7 years who was extremely nervy then and still is even after all the years of tlc, we think she was beaten as a youngster, and he is always exceptionally good with her. Is very patient and takes his time. He is used to shoeing young horses, majority of those he does are youngsters so I don't think that a different farrier would make much of a difference.
 
OldieButGoodie said:
I would try to get a farrier who is used to dealing with nervous/young horses. I had a farrier who told me my horse was dangerous and had to be sedated. I was horrified by this! Turns out farrier had handled him roughly when the horse had a cut on his hind leg - so when horse reacted by pulling his leg away farrier deemed my horse 'dangerous'. When I moved horse to another yard the farrier there had no problem at any time during the two years the horse was there!
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While I agree that a rough farrier can upset a young horse it is NOT the farriers job to teach your young horse to behave. Remember if your farrier gets injured it is his livelihood gone.
 
I spent some time with a mare who had issues with her back feet. A consistent approach over a few weeks got her to the point where she would eventually pick them up. She would initially spin if you went for her back foot, so I'd just follow her with my hand on the inside of her back leg (high up and lightly but so she knew it was there) and only removed it once she stopped.

She would kick if you tied her up and asked for her back feet though.

Now she's just like any other horse and picks her feet up perfectly. Once I got to the point that she'd actually let you hold hold them then came lots and lots of treats and fuss.

There's also a series our local NH trainer did on handling feet that may be worth a look - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsXzDG5uqFA
He has a few different videos about picking up feet on his channel.
 
Thank you for the video link curiosity101, very interesting. Might try that method with her once she is happy enough with me running my hands down her legs and brushing them ��
 
There are some great YouTube videos on training horses to pick up their feet. Take it steady. Break it down into little bits. Take your time. An untrained horse may be dangerous to a farrier who is rough and impatient, but that does not mean the horse is dangerous.
 
aoibhinn98 said:
Your farrier has already decided that your horse has a nasty streak, rather than being a worried youngster who needs training. In your position I would definitely look for a different ie sympathetic farrier. You could be spending a lot of time on helping your mare only for the current farrier to undo your work.
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Just take some time with her. Mine didn't like back feet being picked up but patience has solved the problem. TBH if the vet picked her feet up to do flexion tests and inspect the feet she can't have been too much of a problem. A vet wouldn't have persisted if he felt the mare was dangerous when picking up feet.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if she had never had her feet properly handled and has been twitched or similar to get that set on. Patience and she will improve.
 
My gelding is always very fearful (and is perceived to be aggressive) of being trimmed by a farrier - seems to be related to the smells and I guess is due to the first time he was shod in Ireland. He doesn't have an issue with a barefoot trimmer (ie one who doesn'y smell smokey I guess).
 
My now 5 yr old was Bad with her feet when she arrived. She would plant them and refuse to pick them up. It took a lot of patience and a lot of reward every time she even lifted one off the floor for even a second. Spent a long time doing it the first day, then less and less. She also didn’t like her legs being brushed but again, slowly slowly and lots of praise.

Now, 6 months on, I can tap the leg I want and say “this one” and she picks up the foot.
 
I haven't read replies so sorry if I'm repeating what anyone else has said but I've basically gone through this exactly over the last 2 months...

I knew what I was letting myself in for with mine though as they did tell me he was practically wild!! He is a very sensitive 3yo TB x too so a bit of a challenge!

He was very nervous of people and his 1st reaction to everything is to kick out and jump away from you. 2 months down the line I am picking up all 4 feet calmly whilst untied and even all 4 from the same side now.

Key for me was desensitising him completely so nothing was a shock. I got a long pvc pipe with a stuffed glove on the end and touched him all over with it. If he started to kick, keep the glove there touching him until he stops, then remove and praise. I did this daily for about 1-2wks until the reaction to kick stopped, then I felt confident to touch his back end and work my way down with the hand.

I'd always start by picking up front feet as much less dangerous, then start right at the top with my hand and carried on down his leg until he picked up.


Initially he would pick it up v quickly and nervously which was a bit unnerving at times (always wear a hat and position yourself well) But after routinely doing this he started to relax.

Lots of praise patience and routine and you will get there :)
 
SWE said:
Initially he would pick it up v quickly and nervously which was a bit unnerving at times (always wear a hat and position yourself well) But after routinely doing this he started to relax.

Lots of praise patience and routine and you will get there :)
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I like the idea of a stuffed glove on the end of a PVC pipe.

To the hard hat, I'd add steel toe-cap boots.
 
Thanks to everyone for the advice �� I have been spending a lot of time grooming her this week to allow her to become more comfortable around me. My plan for the moment is brushing the front legs and running my hands all along them, have gotten about halfway down the cannon bone so far so a bit of progress! I think that as she isn't unbalanced with the 3 shoes on I will just leave her like that as I would rather not sedate her to take them off. May just put front shoes on her in 6/8 weeks time as she really doesn't need the hind ones as she is not doing any road work. Fingers crossed we can keep increasing confidence
 
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