can't understand the economics of the horse world!

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angel7

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I am completely confused and befuddled by the world we now live in.

Animal charities are bleating they are "full to capacity" with unwanted cats, dogs and abandoned horses, but when I attended my SSPCA centre they had no kittens available, only a few feral cats and no horses available at all for rehoming in the whole of Scotland.

World horse Welfare seems to only have veteran companions and (pretty useless TBH) small ponies, most of which have health problems. Anything bigger than 14h is unrideable or ancient. Where are all these unwanted horses I'm always hearing about, so many they are considering a cull?
The last horse sale in Cumbria 2 weeks ago had brisk trading and high prices and 99% of the horses there were in good condition.

Every horse and/or trailer I have phoned about viewing has been sold before I can get to see it.
I went to 3 dealers yards last week and they all said they couldn't find enough horses to fulfil what people were wanting- 15.2-16h up to weight cob types for novice hacking and RC stuff (which is what I want too). They had lots of TB's and warmbloods they could only sell to really experienced homes and nothing was less than £2.5K!
When I spoke to a judge at a show last week he told me there were plenty safe riding types going through Cavan for about £800 - £1000 each time he has visited. So where are they all going?

I am also horrified at the escalating costs of horse ownership now compared to even 2 years ago. Then I used to pay £20 DIY livery with arena and checked daily, £20 round bale hay, £49 full set of shoes, £6 25kg bags of straight feeds, £3.25 25kg bale of shavings.
We are supposedly in the middle of a recession and "everyone" is struggling with higher household bills, fuel and the rising costs of food, but horsey folk around here are now paying £5.75 a small bale hay and £37.50 for a large round at my local feed store! £13 for most bags of feed, £9 bale of shavings, £79 a full set of shoes and the cost of supplements OMG!
I'm looking for livery too but can't find a space anywhere- prices are now £35 a week for complete DIY with a stable and a muddy field- no arena, lights, assistance or anything.
Yards with an arena are charging £28-42 a week for grass livery only (with no stable and no grass)!! And they are all full. The last time I sold a horse I had nothing but timewasters, joy riders and folk wanting to pay in installments. It makes no sense that these same folk can afford to keep horses at these prices!

Now when I attend local shows everyone has ifor williams trailers, enormous 4X4's and all the most expensive tack and clothing imaginable, but I know these folk work poorly paid jobs, are unemployed or only partime, so how on earth can they afford it all?

Sorry this has turned into a right rant but am I the only person that thinks rip off Britain is thriving?

To make myself feel better with some legwork I sourced some straw for £20 a large round bale, hay for £25, some 1 tonne bags of loose mixed shavings for £5 and found a good quality second hand body protector in my size for £45, now if I could find something to ride I might get on a bit better:)
 
The cost of living is going up all the time, it makes sense that to keep up with it horsey people/farmers will be putting their prices up as well, like i said in another thread hay hasnt gone up in price for about twenty years, only just going up in the last two or three!!
I cant afford to eat lamb, may have to start getting a taste for horse! ;)
 
Rubbish isn't it! Just think though having a horse is a luxury... So if you can afford a horse in the first place people will probably try and take advantage and get more money out of you... Perhaps??? Anyhow where I am it's £23 a week DIY with stable and too much grass, only pay for your straw and haylage in the winter months which is £5 a week haylage don't know exact cost but included 'farm breakfast' in the morning and YO turnout horses in morning (field available 365 days/year) all that for approx £37 a week. £64 set of shoes... £60 for record... I don't understand why so much?! £8.40 bag of mix £5 bag of chop £14 biotin (lasts 80 days)... So all together allot cheaper... Also have full indoor school with heating!!!
 
The first part of your post made my blood boil with frustration, which I will try not to let spill into rudeness in my post. The animals in the charities are UNWANTED. Kittens and the cute, humanised, healthy, easy and a pleasure to keep cats get snapped up quickly. The older ones, or the ones who have health problems and don't keep themselves groomed and cost a fortune in regular vets bills can spend YEARS in a rescue centre. They are the truly unwanted ones which are hardest to rehome and are occupying the spaces at the charity. It then becomes catch 22 and as the 'nice' ones get rehomed there are still the same amount of cats of different types coming in and so the rescue fills up with those that are harder to rehome. So they are full, and as a charity could be forgiven if they don't have a kitten ready to gratefully rehome to you. Why not ask if they have an older cat who would appreciate a nice warm home to live in, or if any of their ferals would make a hood domestication project?

Same with horses. The ones who are hardest to rehome are the ones filling up the rescue centres, with the added twist that the horses being admitted due to rescue or neglect are almost always too small for an adult to ride, have health problems which prevent them from being ridden or are too old. Nice horses suitable for being ridden by a novice almost never end up at a rescue centre because as you have discovered they are like gold dust and demand is still high for them.
 
Most equine charity/rehoming places will be full of the older & infirmed horses or horses with issues. If they were all perfect & ready to ride then they would have been sold by the previous owners rather than signed over. Yes many will be ponies, because they get out grown or were bought for a child who fancied a pony & this fad lasted 5 minutes. There are loads of ponies around strugling for new homes & so many do end up in rescue places. Yes the cost of owning a horse has gone up, livery prices have increased as have water bills, community charge, electricity etc so you expect that to happen. Hay & feed have risen in cost as has fuel to drive the machinery that crops & bales it & also the wages of the driver of the vehicle & the labour to gather it in. Shavings went up tremendously in price as the majority is made as a byproduct if the building industry & when that is depressed there is less available & the price goes up.

It matters not that we are in a depression, the horses still need to be fed etc & so bill have to be paid. A depression does not mean that people have to sell horses to you at a ridiculously low price or sell you feed/ hay etc again at vastly reduced price. These people have bills to pay as well.

It's not just you Angel that has annoyed me it all the people that expect to cash in on peoples misfortune during hard times & want to buy things for nothing. If you can afford to keep a horse then buy one, they are out there but don't expect someone to give you one for peanuts. Work out the cost of keeping it & again if you can afford to then have a horse. If you can't afford to buy or look after then don't moan that everyone is pricing everything out of your reach. We all know the expense of keeping them, it's not easy, we do it because we are able to & want to as they are important in our lives. I cannot remember the last time I had a holiday or even had a night away, my horses need me there so I am. We all make sacrifices to keep horses, it's not a hobby, it's a way of life!
 
I think you answered your own question re the horses that go through Cavan for 1k are then sold on by the dealers for 2.5 k
 
The cost of everything is going up due to high fuel prices.

A few years ago a livery yard owner cited the price of fuel going up being the reason he had to put up the price of livery. If you peel it all back, it's true. Everything comes down to the price of fuel...because without fuel we can't produce anything, we can't transport anything, we can't DO anything as everything is driven by it, whether it's baling hay, transporting feed, the farrier needs it to get to us to shoe our horses, our food comes to the stores via diesel driven lorries.
 
The cost of keeping horses is very driven by the cost of fuel .
A budget of 2.5 k will not buy the nice safe RC type for a novice you seek unless the horse is older or has a soundness issue or you are lucky that's not a rip off its the market nice safe sound first type horses are a premium as there are so many adult novices now.
that's not a rip off its the market .
However I do think there are great bargains to be had for youngsters at the moment.
 
Naturally said:
The first part of your post made my blood boil with frustration, which I will try not to let spill into rudeness in my post. The animals in the charities are UNWANTED. <snip>

Same with horses. The ones who are hardest to rehome are the ones filling up the rescue centres, with the added twist that the horses being admitted due to rescue or neglect are almost always too small for an adult to ride, have health problems which prevent them from being ridden or are too old. Nice horses suitable for being ridden by a novice almost never end up at a rescue centre because as you have discovered they are like gold dust and demand is still high for them.
Click to expand...

You make an excellent point, but I can also see where OP is coming from.

Just today I saw a WHW banner across the top of this page, which states something like 'Why buy when you can rehome? A wide range of horses and ponies available'.

Assuming that not very many people set out to buy an unrideable pony/horse, that ad does give the impression that they have plenty of rideable horses and ponies in their centres.

Rescue centres ought to be realistic about their prospects for rehoming (most are, I think) all those elderly unrideable ponies with expensive health issues.
 
Ditto naturally & Toby z. Rescue centres do have some big rideable horses, but the loaner puts the work in, the centres don't produce all rounders for your convenience. And I don't think livery has gone up that much really. If you compare average diy costs from 20, 15 yrs ago, current prices certainly haven't gone up with inflation.
 
Cost of upkeep I can understand. As others have pointed out, fuel prices dictate the cost of many goods. Hay and straw prices have risen vastly in the last few years because less farmers produce them now, and we're had some terrible summers. Grain prices are at a worldwide high, climate change and meat production seeming to be at the root of it sadly.

Against that you could argue that the cost of other items have come down massively, as a result of the rise in leisure ownership. You can pick up a grooming kit or headcollar or whatever for peanuts nowadays, and rugs are not only cheaper but made from far better materials. Half a ton of wet New Zealand anyone?

However, horse prices themselves do seem to be wildly variable and often ridiculous. I would argue that there are so many "problem" horses out there, the sound ones with manners can be sold at inflated prices. The causes of that are numerous, but I'd guess that a rise in very novice owners, indiscriminate breeding, overhorsing, the cheap price of ex racers, and a fashion for warmbloods, all have something to do with it. Plus a historical over-reliance on shoes, but that's a whole other can of worms....
 
There are a lot of horses going cheap at this time of year, always loads of ex racers especially! I'm sure you could get what you want for your money especially if you don't mind a thoroughbred. a lot of dealers etc say 'no TBs' as a lot of people seem to think any TB is worth nothing (even nice never raced ones!).

You are best off with private ads I think. No one is going to send a horse to a rehoming centre if they can sell it for even a small amount.

If I saw a nice pony for a companion I would have it, most of the ones I have seen are in the very far south though (dartmoors etc), I would still consider it if someone wanted to share the transport costs.
 
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