Canter explosions and other stories

[Winters100]

I am with Red on this one. Since he has been seen by an experienced horse vet who has not recommended further investigation I would have YO or a pro ride the horse and see what happens. At the moment he is standing in his box for 21 hours a day, and as you have lost your confidence I am guessing that the work that he gets on the 5 days that he is exercised is quite gentle. I would also be looking for livery where he can be out the majority of the time in a pack.

In the meantime I would be investigating the seller and consulting with a lawyer to look at the possibilities for returning him. It sounds to me as if the ideal solution would be to send him back, or solve the problems and sell with full disclosure, and to look for a lovely schoolmaster/mistress who you can have fun with.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[Elno]

I also agree with more exercise and turnout. My horse was a different animal when out 24/7 compared to "only" 12 hours turnout. Even with 12 hours turnout with a buddy during the winter he was more than a handful and almost impossible to tire out. So if he comes out sound he might just need different living arrangements and a lot of exercise for him not to be a nut case ??‍

 

[Flicker]

Nothing to add to the excellent advice you have already been given, and completely second those who say to not be too hard on yourself. Buying horses is a minefield and I have seen extremely experienced buyers getting their fingers well and truly burnt. You have not exacerbated anything - this horse was sold to you as being suitable for a novice. He is clearly anything but. You are now having to pick up the pieces of someone else’s dishonesty and this is absolutely not on you. Decide what YOU want to get from this and take it from there. Best of luck.

 

[scats]

I’d get the suspensories scanned. Experienced vet at the hospital told me it would be pointless scanning my mare as she wasn’t really lame enough or presenting enough and I’d be wasting my money (insurance wouldn’t cover it). Problem was complete explosion into canter- then slamming on and standing upright, lathered with sweat. Same on the lunge.
It was a suspensory.

 

[New2this]

This is all so helpful. I am reading all these posts. I ll reply individually later. But I have a lot to digest and think about. Thank you all.

 

[Flicker]

Just to add, my completely non-horsey father bought me a TB ex-racer from a mate for the equivalent of about £500 as a first horse. I arrived home from school one day to be told that I now owned a horse. He had some issues but was one of the safest horses I’ve ridden and was my best friend until he passed from natural causes aged 21. By comparison, I’ve had to get off a friend’s ‘schoolmaster’ because he was lethal. You did nothing wrong as a novice to buy a TB - character and pain are going to influence behaviour irrespective of breed or size.

 

[New2this]

Everyone told me it was that my horse was "just a TB and that's what they do" when he started bucking. He had neck arthritis so severe I had him PTS. Another horse, I was told "he needs a man on him" when what he needed was treatment for severe kissing spines.

I'd certainly be looking at x rays of the spine from the poll as far as you can get, and an SI/hock/stifle/PSD exploration if those are clear.

I doubt that it's you, from what you've written so far.
..

This is pretty much exactly what I ve had so far. Has made me feel so foolish - why did I buy a TB?! Why a 16 3 TB!? Why can’t I be more confident?!? Of course he does this with me.... etc.

 

[New2this]

Just to add, my completely non-horsey father bought me a TB ex-racer from a mate for the equivalent of about £500 as a first horse. I arrived home from school one day to be told that I now owned a horse. He had some issues but was one of the safest horses I’ve ridden and was my best friend until he passed from natural causes aged 21. By comparison, I’ve had to get off a friend’s ‘schoolmaster’ because he was lethal. You did nothing wrong as a novice to buy a TB - character and pain are going to influence behaviour irrespective of breed or size.

What a lovely story! And thx!

 

[New2this]

See even a very fresh horse I'd expect to calm down eventually if you lunge. Tricky if you have to fork out for it yourself. I would want to rule out kissing spine, suspensories/hind leg issues and ulcers maybe.

It's rare a horse is naughty without a reason. Especially if you can walk and trot him without issues and he doesn't feel like he is going to lose it unless you canter. - if he was that fresh I'd expect him to explode as you walk into the arena, not just when asking for canter.

He does calm down after a significant melt down. One thing to add. It is much much worse when circling. When I had confidence, and we cantered in straight lines in a field he was completely fine.

 

[New2this]

leaving aside what everyone is saying what do YOU want the outcome to be? Even if the horse was found to have something curable would you want to ride? would you feel safe doing so because from your posts I don't think you would. Yes I think you are completely overhorsed and it could well be that someone else could cope with him, OTOH it could be something like KS and, other than forcing him through pain, he is basically unrideable.

It has all gone wrong which is very sad, it could be you, could be the horse or could be the dealer who didn't tell you the problem and the vet who couldn't test the blood is inexcusable.

Before you go further I think you need to decide do you want to ride him, are you willing to sell him in the hope a pro could ride him, are you willing to PTS as it stands, are you willing to go further down the vet route and financially by how much. Do you want to keep him as a pet.

the other thing is the turnout. The lack of turn out is probably not really fair on the horse. If you were in England I would suggest you put him on either 24/7 turn out or a track system for the winter, give him a few months and ask a trainer who is not familiar with him to assess him. (warning them of course to prevent an accident) I am afraid I don''t have any idea about Ireland. Is that sort of turn out possible.

There are so many possibilities from your posts. If you can afford it can you send him to a decent trainer with a lot of turnout to assess him even if only for a few weeks. If the horse has no problems other than needing an experienced rider ask them to sell him via sales livery otherwise to get a different vet.

ETA from reading your initial posts again don't despair, it is not your ineptitude just simply now considering the possibilities as to why it is happening and the possible ways to resolve the situation..

This is a fantastic post. Thanks. Very pragmatic. The honest truth is I don’t know. I don’t want to get hurt. I don’t want anything bad to happen to the horse. And I don’t want to lie to anyone. If I did sell, I would ? tell the potential buyer absolutely everything I know and have done. At the very least, this would mean losing 1000s. But actually that would be fine. So long as Charlie went to a good place and the buyer didn’t get hurt. I won’t be riding Charlie after this thread. If smt happened, then at this stage I d only have myself to blame. Turn out - yes! I am seeing that whatever happens I have to sort this. Much to think about!

 

[New2this]

Is it possible for you to turn him away for a month in a settled living out herd, keep him there and start small maybe with a different calm rider just hacking in walk, if it is as simple as he needs more turnout to be rideable then you know he has to have more turnout in a herd without spending more money.
If he is still the same then go down the route of vet investigation.

Thinking about this. Looking into it. Thx! Good advice. I keep in saying this like a broken record... but much to think about and plan.

 

[twiggy2]

Thinking about this. Looking into it. Thx! Good advice. I keep in saying this like a broken record... but much to think about and plan.

Gives you time to breath and think, if its a physical problem he will be fine if he is not working and if he just needs to unwind or more turn out problem solved. You can also think about what you want with him long term and aim for plan how to reach that .

 

[Lou27]

He does calm down after a significant melt down. One thing to add. It is much much worse when circling. When I had confidence, and we cantered in straight lines in a field he was completely fine.

I thought from your 1st post that his behaviour was far more likely to be related to a physical problem rather than him ‘acting up’ and what you’ve said here, I’d now put money on it. Firstly, although you’ve had the saddle reflocked, are you certain it actually fits correctly?

Increased turn out will no doubt do him the world of good but I find the fact he went lame within 3 days of arriving and the bloods situation really dodgy, in your position I’d contact an equine solicitor and explain the timeline of events and all the details you’ve said on here. You did everything right in going for the horse as advertised and getting him vetted inc. bloods. It’s absolutely not fair on you to now be lumbered with a completely unsuitable and dangerous horse, whatever the cause. In the meantime, don’t let it stress you out anymore than it has, turn him out and give yourself a breather!

 

[Upthecreek]

I would start by giving him much more turnout and much less or no hard feed. Then you will see what you really have. Many horses go loopy with minimal turnout and people underestimate the impact it can have on their behaviour/well-being. If there is no change to the behaviour and if you aren’t going to return him, you need to get him to a specialist equine hospital for a thorough work-up as pain will most likely be the cause of these explosions.

Very unfortunate that the vetting vet can’t run bloods. If you suspect the seller is a dealer and can prove this you should definitely consider returning the horse.

 

[Rowreach]

I lack confidence in myself as an owner. So I think “these people know so much more, I just have to man up”. But it’s like a gun goes off. It’s not fair to him and it’s dangerous for me and my niece. So I ll get the vet out again. Last time he mentioned doing a bute trail to see if he changed his behaviour. He didn’t mention x rays.

I have to say.... I m not insured (in Ireland people don’t really do this I don’t think). And this is all mounting up!!!! I know, I know.... don’t buy a horse if you can’t afford it. Unfortunately, to coincide with Charlie’s latest bucks and bronks my work has cut my hours significantly.

Whereabouts are you (roughly)? I’d be tempted to take him to a vet hospital regardless of what your vet has said. All you describe screeches physical issues.

 

[ycbm]

Very unfortunate that the vetting vet can’t run bloods.

I'd question whether it was negligent rather than unfortunate and I'd be demanding to know the reason that the bloods are compromised and can't be tested. I'd also be trying to find out if there are any links between the seller and the chosen vet. And trying to get evidence that the seller is a dealer.

If the horse is found to be unsound (I'd currently put good money on it) then with the timing of the initial lameness, there's maybe a case against the vet's insurance for not being able to test the blood.
.

 

[ycbm]

I get that minimal turnout/too much food can send horses loopy, but in my experience that loopiness would show in some measure all the time, led in hand, walking and trotting, canter on straight lines and not just in canter on a circle.
.

 

[stangs]

Curious - does he ever pick up canter willingly, i.e when turned out?

And how much of his history do you know? Maybe I'm being too cynical but is it possible he had this problem before, was sold on as being too much for rider or even unridden? Wouldn't be the first time a dealer's picked up an unrideable horse (not saying that he is), drugged it up, and sold it on as perfect first horse...

 

[hock]

I’m 99% there’s a pain issue. You won’t be able to sort this yourself so take the pressure off. I would be getting a lameness work up done and spine xrays would be where I’d be starting first. Its totally fine to go to a different vets for a work up but you really need someone to recommend a vet for you. What area are you roughly and someone on here may well be able to suggest someone.
Don’t beat yourself up about this, treat it as a learning curve. I’ve made a million mistakes with horses and I look back at the things I thought I was doing right and now know I was wrong.

 

[Trouper]

PLEASE do not even think about passing him on to anyone else before you have got to the bottom of his problems. I am with everyone else who says he is in pain - somewhere - and it just would not be fair to him or a new owner to pass that on. I have been there with a TB and, because there were too many problems to fix, I had a 6yr old pts. It was kindest for him and safest for everyone else. Having slightly over-horsed myself, if I could have resolved his problems to get him through a Stage 2 vetting, I was considering asking the Thoroughbred re-homing charity to take him but, sadly, things had gone too far.

I found it telling that your boy's panicked reaction to lungeing was to run back to the "sanctuary" of his stable but also agree that he needs much more turnout - any horse needs more than he is getting and it is not even winter yet. If you are committed to helping him then @Mrs Jingle has given you a good steer on where you might get this help but I can also understand that the financial situation may make this difficult for you. I think trying to backtrack over the "dodgy dealer" you bought him from might prove fruitless but the vetting negligence certainly looks, at the least incompetent, if not downright suspicious. That might well be worth following up.

Please do let anyone else try to "ride him through" this. If he is in pain that would be cruel. If he is not, then that is not much help to you if you are not able to ride in the same way.

Above all, don't beat yourself up about this - many of us have been there before you. Work out a plan to help him and let the professionals guide you through it.

 

[Goldenstar]

There is nothing worse than getting yourself smashed up on a horse where you knew it was likely to happen I know I have been there .
I would not do the turn away and kick the problem down the road thing it prolongs the heartache and at some point you either give yourself up to paying for an expensive field ornament for decade or more or you have to go through the same again .
If it’s at all possible to move the horse to where there’s more turnout do it three hours is not enough for a young horse .
I hope you find some answers , keep yourself safe .

 

[southerncomfort]

No advice re the horse but I would certainly be putting in a strongly worded complaint to the vet practice and requesting a partial refund on the vetting to cover the cost of the lost blood sample.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Im sorry but it sounds like you've been had by a dodgy seller and possibly a dodgy vet! How can a vet not note dropped fetlocks on vetting and how on earth can they "compromise " the bloods ?
Sounds pretty dodgy to me !
The horse probably explodes cantering on a circle as he can't take the weight on those fetlocks.
So I would approach this as a veterinary issue rather than an issue with you. There are plenty of lovely, calm and big TBs out there that would suit you, I don't think you made a mistake in buying a TB. But sadly I suspect you've been conned.

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s very easy for bloods to be compromised.
It will usually be that they have been too warm at some point .

 

[New2this]

Im sorry but it sounds like you've been had by a dodgy seller and possibly a dodgy vet! How can a vet not note dropped fetlocks on vetting and how on earth can they "compromise " the bloods ?
Sounds pretty dodgy to me !
The horse probably explodes cantering on a circle as he can't take the weight on those fetlocks.
So I would approach this as a veterinary issue rather than an issue with you. There are plenty of lovely, calm and big TBs out there that would suit you, I don't think you made a mistake in buying a TB. But sadly I suspect you've been conned.

Looking back I made some very stupid mistakes. I was so excited to buy my first ever horse. A dream I ve had since I was 7. I should have slowed down. I knew the market was hot, but I shouldn’t have bought so quickly.

I am reading all replies. And thinking thinking. What do people think of listing him as a companion? With everything declared? He has a genuinely lovely temperament. I don’t mind losing nearly all my money on him.... but don’t want him falling into wrong hands. I owe him that much.

 

[New2this]

No advice re the horse but I would certainly be putting in a strongly worded complaint to the vet practice and requesting a partial refund on the vetting to cover the cost of the lost blood sample.

I did this. Sent a solicitors letter to the effect. I’m v angry at vet. I told him straight out I was a first time buyer a novice and that, while I didn’t care if the horse couldn’t compete, I needed the horse to be sound. I emphasised that I was relying on him. In fairness he refunded the cost of sending off the bloods.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

The risk of selling a horse like him is that someone might buy him, drug him with painkillers (or use the old dehydration trick) and then sell on for a profit.

 

[piebaldproblems]

Not sure if listing him as a companion would be the best thing to do until you know whether the problem’s going to get worse without treatment or if it only means he can’t be ridden.

If you do sell him, be very careful that he’s not going to end up with a dodgy dealer.

I know someone who bought a horse with undisclosed problems that they found out meant she’d never be ridden. She ended up getting horse adopted out via the Blue Cross so could be certain that horse was in trustworthy home.

 

[Muddy unicorn]

He’s not really an ideal companion though, even without the issues - too big, too young and he’s a TB. You might find someone to loan him as a companion but I suspect most people would run a mile …

 

[Upthecreek]

I get that minimal turnout/too much food can send horses loopy, but in my experience that loopiness would show in some measure all the time, led in hand, walking and trotting, canter on straight lines and not just in canter on a circle.
.

I agree with you that the behaviour is quite specific rather just generalised high jinks you would expect if not enough turnout/too much feed was the cause. However I think the safest option for the OP would be to turn the horse out and not attempt to ride it again whilst she is investigating her legal rights and making some decisions on the way forward so that is what I would do.

I think it’s quite common for bloods to be compromised unfortunately, so I don’t know if she would have a claim against the vet for this, but she should certainly find out. Also was the vet recommended by the seller? If you can prove they have a ‘relationship’ that would be helpful.

OP I can totally understand you just want to get rid of the problem, but you run the risk of selling/giving him away to be a companion only, for him to be drugged up and sold on as a ridden horse. You lose all control of what might happen to him in the future when you give up ownership.