Canter issues OTTB

[Jaqa]

Hi there, I've got an OTTB that has had a lot of groundwork put into him but is still having canter issues on the circle. (Doesn't want to canter (unusual for him to stress that much about being asked to do something he understands) and when he does frequently picks up the wrong lead, disunites or falls out of the canter.) Has a lovely walk and trot and I've seen him really moving when cantering/galloping in straight lines around the paddock. Has been vet checked more than once. No obvious issues. Never lame. He does like to really drop his head close to the ground often when being lunged. (I think that's partially my fault for rewarding him not doing the giraffe thing by allowing him to slow down initially and I think he also finds the stretch relaxing.) An instructor suggested putting him in loose side reins to stop him dropping his head as much and working on the forehand due to this, which he seems to be adapting to well. Have also been doing poll work (walk/trot polls, walking over polls on a diagonal, slightly raised polls, very small cavalettis) over the last few months, all of which he's become quite good at, but his canter is still a bit of a mess. He's not being ridden at the moment (not due to any injury, needs restarting and trying to sort as much as possible from the ground first.) Can anyone else suggest any exercises that might help? I've been looking into a lot of online articles, videos and books on amazon, but most seem to be really basic and stuff I'm already doing. I'm hoping I'm panicking over nothing and he just needs more work in side reins but wondering if anyone else has had this issue and how you worked through it?

 

[Melody Grey]

What have you vet checked? I’ve had experience of canter issues due to ulcers and hind suspensories, so might be worth considering these?
Are you starting with the biggest circle you can do in your space and without restriction to his head/ way of going?
What is the surface of the arena like? (I have a poor wood chip one at my current livery- walk and trot are ok, but horses really struggle in canter because the surface moves and they can’t find their balance).

 

[ycbm]

Some of what you have written with my ex racer who turned out to have very severe neck arthritis in the bottom half of his neck. He also walked and trotted well but showed his issues in the canter transition. Once into canter, he was fine. If you have the funds I would consider putting him on for a full performance workup, as I would also be suspicious of the hocks/SI/PSD.

Have a look also at congenital issues in TBs and crossbreeds with malformation of C6/7 at the bottom of the neck. This causes loss of stability in the front legs which could well account for him not being able to hold his balance in canter.

If you search C6/7 using the search function top right, you should find a longer to a good article about it.

Of course he could still just be green, how long has this been going on?
.

 

[Carrottom]

If I have understood you correctly, the problem is canter on the lunge which would be quite a small circle. I would stop trying that for now, wait until you are riding and try canter in a large arena or a field.

 

[Squeak]

If I have understood you correctly, the problem is canter on the lunge which would be quite a small circle. I would stop trying that for now, wait until you are riding and try canter in a large arena or a field.

I would agree with this. Ex-racers are taught to canter very differently (mostly in a straight line or large space and potentially very on the forehand, particularly sprinters) to what we expect and this makes it harder for them than just a green youngster as we have to unteach them and then re teach.

I don't do a huge amount of lunging but when I was working with my ex-racer ridden I went large around the arena to give him as much space as possible and then built up from there. I did need to offer him additional support in the transitions to and from as well as in the canter but I essentially just built it up gradually like a youngster.

There maybe something going on health wise but I'd be inclined to think he's just utterly confused about how to canter on a small circle after having been taught the complete opposite for all his life. So as long as he seems well in every other way I'd carry on working on it a bit longer before calling the vet.

 

[Jaqa]

What have you vet checked?

He was checked by a specialist from a top equine clinic and had his legs scanned and flexion tested just prior to me getting him. (I have the veterinary report though.)

He's since been rechecked by two other vets for soundness (incl. some flexion tests but not imaging) which couldn't find anything significant. He doesn't have ulcers.

I was at an agistment with no all weather facilities and thought the ground was part of the issue for a long while especially as he had some hoof issues that needed to get sorted out too (the ground could often turn to either slippery grass or rock hard dirt depending on the season), but now have him somewhere with really good sand surfaces (softer menage and harder round yard sand surfaces, no difference to his way of going between the two.) Max circle diameter is probably about 20m.

If you have the funds I would consider putting him on for a full performance workup, as I would also be suspicious of the hocks/SI/PSD.

He did have a really good check over before I got him (and the canter issues has been there from the start), although to my knowledge his upper legs/hips/spine haven't been xrayed recently. If there's a problem anywhere, I'd have my money on it being in the hind end. He had an occasional stifle click with no lameness in one hock when I got him that concerned me a bit, but not experienced equine vet I had to check him who considered it a non-issue. It seems they were right, as after a lot of strengthening work (stretches, hills, back up, polls, general fitness) this went away and I haven't heard it for a long time. He's well muscled and symmetrical all over and no issues on flexion testing last time this was done. Can poke and prod all you like over his back, hips and legs and nothing is painful. I'll admit to getting slightly concerned about a possible low grade SI problem that might not be easily findable without an imaging hunt however everyone else I've asked about this (vets/trainers) have not had this as a high concern at present. Trainer thinks it's most likely to be greeness. Has been ongoing 2 years, however up until the last 6 months I didn't have the right facilities to work him properly. (Have been doing a lot of work with poles and building up strength and co-ordination at walk/trot on an all weather surface and very little canter work due to him getting stressed about it, so while his slower paces are solid, the canter isn't.)

I'd be very surprised if he had a cervical issue going on. I'm familiar with them, but he doesn't have the typical signs that would ring alarm bells. He was also a REALLY expensive colt when purchased for racing by the previous owners at about 4 years of age. I'd be extremely surprised if the prepurchase check on him didn't xray just about every bone in his body making any sort of congenital malformation very unlikely. (It's possible they didn't as I don't have his medical record from then, but for that sort of money I'd assume they'd have had no issue in shelling out a few hundred $ for the extra rads in the vet check.)

I do plan to get a well regarded chiro out at some point to give him a look over. Unfortunately they've been stuck elsewhere due to covid issues for a while but should be back within the next month or two.

Ex-racers are taught to canter very differently (mostly in a straight line or large space and potentially very on the forehand, particularly sprinters) to what we expect and this makes it harder for them than just a green youngster as we have to unteach them and then re teach.

I would agree with that. When he goes to canter he either runs forward into it and can be quite on the forehand, or launches himself upwards and forward so he literally jumps into the canter. Big horse, limited circle size, trying to go fairly fast, I guess that could be enough to stress him out by feeling too confined. He can certainly fly and accellerates fast in the paddock (easily way faster than any of the other horses he's in with) when he wants to, but of course when they're messing about in the paddock it's a large area with fairly straight lines. Unfortunately the menage doesn't have a high enough fence to allow him to canter around it off a lunge rope to see what he'd do given a slightly larger area.

I guess I've just been getting worried as you see all these TB's shortly off the track merrily cantering circles and he just gets tangled even after a lot of work trying to get it sorted. I actually spent months getting him to canter just one stride, then two, then three, before bringing him back to the trot to get him out of having a panic attack when asked to to this as it seems to be one thing that really worries him. He's doesn't really panic now, but still gets obviously anxious and rushy about it.

May have to wait until we're riding him again. If you could see how he sometimes launches himself into the canter you'd understand why I wanted to get this fixed from the ground first though! I also wanted to make sure I didn't make things worse if he had a problem by adding the extra weight change of balance by having a rider into the mix. Was hoping there might have been some pole work or stretches or something I'd missed that could also help, but if not I'll keep going and see how he goes from there.

Thanks everyone for the replies, appreciate it

 

[Melody Grey]

From the amount and type of strengthening work you describe, (over 2 yrs I think?) I’d be looking harder along the veterinary route. From experience, I’d expect him to be able to manage more than a few strides of canter by now.

Re: ulcers- has he been scoped/ have you considered hind gut issues? Both can lack much outward indication.

 

[Melody Grey]

Re: historic investigations- these may well have been all good, but a lot can happen in 2+ yrs, so although they might confirm everything was formed right, they can’t tell you about how everything has weathered since. I’d take them with a pinch of salt and look at hocks/ SI/ suspensories again.

You mention hoof problems- if these were imbalances, you might now be seeing the consequences of compensation/ the cause of the imbalance?

 

[Jaqa]

He's been like this since I got him. Nothing new. investigations done before I got him would still hold relevance now. In saying that, as far as I'm aware rads were not done of the hocks, stifles and SI just prior to me getting him (I know a soundness investigation was done and he passed, however niggly low grade SI issues in particular can be tricky to pinpoint in some cases.) So congenital malformations can be ruled out with a fair degree of certainty, wear and tear since the previous racetrack purchase PPE can't completely be.

The hoof issues were abscesses and damage he did by breaking bits off his hooves/cracking hooves from stomping at flies which is now fixed. (Was a bad abscess year in our area, vet clinics and farrier both indicated they were inundated with them so nothing specific to him.) Feet were fine when aquired and has this issue. It's more the hoof issues stopped any form of training on multiple occasions while the problem could be grown out, some of them for quite a while. It's not a consequence of compensation/imbalance.

No he hasn't been scoped recently, but he almost 100% doesn't have ulcers. I know ulcers is the go to, but in this case it's not his problem. He has no history of them when I got him, is being kept under circumstances that would have a very low risk of developing them, and shows no sign of the many symptoms they can develop with them.

Yes I'd expect him to be doing better by now as well which is why I'm concerned, however no one else who has seen him seems to be really worried including the vets I've had out more than once now, so I'm not sure if I'm panicking over nothing or not. To chase this one up further I'm probably looking at referring him to one of the large hospitals and going on an xray and scintigraphy hunt which is not an inexpensive little venture for someone not working full time at the moment, hence my reluctance to go there quite yet with everyone saying it's not necessary at present.

 

[Melody Grey]

I don’t feel that ulcers are the ‘go to’ so much, more that we now know more than we ever have before about them and their high level of incidence in all horse populations. It may well not be ulcers or anything related, but you absolutely can’t be sure without scoping, in the same way that you can’t rule out skeletal problems without X-ray or soft tissue issues without scanning of some kind.

wishing you luck in either investingatin or cracking on, which ever you decide.

 

[Arzada]

Have you lunged him going large round the arena while you move up and down the length of the arena more or less on the centre line? Or loose schooled him?

 

[Jaqa]

I don’t feel that ulcers are the ‘go to’ so much, more that we now know more than we ever have before about them and their high level of incidence in all horse populations. It may well not be ulcers or anything related, but you absolutely can’t be sure without scoping, in the same way that you can’t rule out skeletal problems without X-ray or soft tissue issues without scanning of some kind.

wishing you luck in either investingatin or cracking on, which ever you decide.

Sorry if I was sounding a bit defensive but ulcers are the answer I always get when ever a question is asked about anything about any previously vet checked horses from behavioural quirks to hoof abscesses and in this case I've had him checked by multiple vets who all agree that in this particular case ulcers are unlikely and there would be other things they'd recommend going to investigate first if needing to work this up further (like imaging) before going down the track of scoping or a med trial.

You're right problems can't be ruled out without imaging, and that's where I'll need to go if this is an ongoing problem. Again, I'm just going on local vet advice here that multiple vets have said they don't highly recommend going down that track at this stage as nothing is checking out as abnormal on the exam. (However yes, low grade issues can sometimes be missed without imaging.) Was just looking for advice on exercises/stretches/poll work etc that people might have had success with for helping with OTTB's that have difficulty with their canter circles at this point. Organising a chiro out also as an extra set of eyes with a different perspecitive.

Have you lunged him going large round the arena while you move up and down the length of the arena more or less on the centre line? Or loose schooled him?

Not really. Unfortunately the fence around the arena is not very tall and he'd likely jump out if free schooled at a canter. Not my property so I don't really want to put fences up even if temporary. He's running far to fast for me to keep up running the length of the area at the canter if he's on a line.

 

[bonny]

Sorry if I was sounding a bit defensive but ulcers are the answer I always get when ever a question is asked about anything about any previously vet checked horses from behavioural quirks to hoof abscesses and in this case I've had him checked by multiple vets who all agree that in this particular case ulcers are unlikely and there would be other things they'd recommend going to investigate first if needing to work this up further (like imaging) before going down the track of scoping or a med trial.

You're right problems can't be ruled out without imaging, and that's where I'll need to go if this is an ongoing problem. Again, I'm just going on local vet advice here that multiple vets have said they don't highly recommend going down that track at this stage as nothing is checking out as abnormal on the exam. (However yes, low grade issues can sometimes be missed without imaging.) Was just looking for advice on exercises/stretches/poll work etc that people might have had success with for helping with OTTB's that have difficulty with their canter circles at this point. Organising a chiro out also as an extra set of eyes with a different perspecitive.



Not really. Unfortunately the fence around the arena is not very tall and he'd likely jump out if free schooled at a canter. Not my property so I don't really want to put fences up even if temporary. He's running far to fast for me to keep up running the length of the area at the canter if he's on a line.

I would stop worrying about why your horse doesn’t canter circles on the lunge and start riding him. I see no reason not to and endlessly checking for problems that he probably hasn’t got isn’t helping him at all.

 

[Regandal]

No he hasn't been scoped recently, but he almost 100% doesn't have ulcers. I know ulcers is the go to, but in this case it's not his problem. He has no history of them when I got him, is being kept under circumstances that would have a very low risk of developing them, and shows no sign of the many symptoms they can develop with them.

You could be describing my horse. No symptoms or causal factors. Refused to canter, if pushed he would cow kick which escalated to broncing. Turned out he had grade 3 ulcers. Relatively cheap to rule out.

 

[Jaqa]

I would stop worrying about why your horse doesn’t canter circles on the lunge and start riding him. I see no reason not to and endlessly checking for problems that he probably hasn’t got isn’t helping him at all.

Yep getting there! Decided I needed to sort out some behavioural and training stuff on the ground first which I'm fairly convinced are sorted now. I've actually been out for quite a while with an injury that prevented riding but is coming good enough I can probably start riding again soon. I was actually doing some light walk/trot work under saddle with him when bringing him back into work before I had to have time out for injuries, and he wasn't pulling up sore and moved fine under saddle. (No canter though due to the issues I was describing.) May well at least start giving him some light work under saddle soon again if the chiro also clears him as well and see how he goes from there. (Wouldn't hurt him to have a once over check up before being ridden again anyway.)

Turned out he had grade 3 ulcers.

Ok point taken. I'm definitely keeping it in mind, it's just something the vets who have seen him haven't recommended to have investigated at this time due to them feeling it unlikely, but not impossible. If he ends up needing to proceed to SI/hindlimb imaging due to ongoing canter issues, I'll likely ask them to scope him at the same time.

 

[Jango]

You need to stop doing circles and get him hacking, get him cantering out in straight lines, with you off his back (up hills if you have them, but appreciate this isn't possible in all regions! It's pretty flat near me). If it's weakness he still start to improve (it may be slow going). If the canter isn't improving after 3 months or so of this, there's definitely a veterinary issue.