cantering on the road

[vicijp]

From my point of view, that kind of work would be the worst for any horse.
Walking on the roads isnt going to do any harm - but also wont get the horse very fit. To then go to cantering on the beach seems a bit extreme to me. Beaches are renowned for causing problems, unless carefully rotivated before each canter.
In this case, id say working the horse on extremes of going caused a weakness in the leg. I definetly wouldnt totally pin the cause on cantering on roads, but each to their own.

 

[icemaiden113]

The horse didn't walk then just go to the beach!!! It had months of work first! How is a steady canter on the beach doin harm? We occasionally hunt deep plough! That damages more tendons on unfit horses than i have ever seen! I promise you the injury was caused due to cantering on the road!

 

[vicijp]

I thought we were talking about a fracture, not a tendon?
I dont know a lot about working on the beach, but what I do know is that 99% of the time the surface is false, and that it always needs rotivating and harrowing first.

 

[lottie1990]

I remember the ocne the hutn set off and al lthe massive hunt horses were canterng up this winding road and it was horrible, as my pony was a nutter and i kept thinking oh noo his legs, so the only thing i can think if theres some grass verge go on it, but watch out there isn't a ditch near or drain!

 

[icemaiden113]

Yeah i was! Maybe ya should take ya horse to th ebeach! How is the surface false? I am really sorry you disagree but the shattered bone was caused by cantering on the road!

 

[vicijp]

You couldnt pay me to canter horses on the beach, as I said I dont know a lot about it. What I do know is that people a lot more knowledgable than you and me are in agreeance that, unless it is prepared properly, the surface is crap.
How can you definetly say the shattered bone was definetly caused by cantering on the road? There is no evidence for or against. If it was caused by that why arent hunts taking their horses home in the meat wagon every week?
Its like someone saying, 'oh my horse slipped in the box and did his tendon' - anyone in the know is going to realise that there was already something there, and that they just didnt realise.
I know of a local trainer who used to gallop his horses on the road in the middle of the night to break them down for insurance. Im talking miles and miles here, the tendons always went before the bones.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

"unless it is prepared properly, the surface is crap"

mmm, there are a hell of a lot of different beaches out there. I'd have thought some beaches are a lot better than some riding schools.

Your knowledgable person must be an expert in riding as well as coastal geography.

 

[vicijp]

Hes an expert in training dodgy legged racehorses - Ginger Mccain. Was always regularly quoted in the press for his thoughts on working on the beach, have been several others too.
Im currently trying to find a picture of Red Rum working on a rotivated strip of sand - i know its out there somewhere.

 

[severnmiles]

I am in agreeance with vici, some of the beaches around here are so deep I can't imagine the strain on the tendons pulling four legs out of it! Not just the surface to think about but also shells can be razor sharp, beach litter e.t.c

Icemaiden, I still do my roadwork too, but I also don't think you can blame the leg shattering purely on cantering on the roads.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Fair enough, and I'm sure he was right about that particular beach. I'm just saying that there are a hell of a lot of very different beaches out there with very different going.

Isn't it a bit like saying 'is cantering in a field bad for tendons?' I'd have thought it all depends on the field you're talking about.

Some beaches have nice firm going, others are very soft, others have loads of pebbles or rocks.

 

[severnmiles]

Ereiam_jh I do like your avater!

 

[vicijp]

Fair point.
If I remember rightly, the best sand to work on is wet, just after the tide has gone out. Then freshly harrowed before you canter - its the only way consistency can be guaranteed, which is the most important thing.

 

[severnmiles]

Precisely, so you can't say cantering on a beach is good or bad!

Surely better to stick to specially designed gallops?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I'm quite sure you know a lot more about it than me. I think you're talking about serious training where these things are much more important as you're pushing things to the limit.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Inspired by my wolfy conversation with Endy!

I thought about animating it with me gobbling him up.

(Ah don't take that the wrong way, I meant in terms of the argument....)

 

[icemaiden113]

Thats the type of beach we used to used! It was always very level and better than our school!
The horse had good tendons and the stress of the hard road shattered the bone. I know you not going to listen but i saw it with my own eye and had various vets opinoins on the matter. The stress fractures that eventually caused it to shatter were caused by cantering on the roads for long periods of time 2/3 days a week! I appreciate it is all opinion based but my only concern was that the same could happen to another young talented horse!

 

[severnmiles]

Inspired by my wolfy conversation with Endy!

I thought about animating it with me gobbling him up.

(Ah don't take that the wrong way, I meant in terms of the argument....)

Point me in the direction of the wolfy conversation..I take it Bendy Endy is on about fox predators again?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Saunton sands maybe?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

You were there at the start:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...ing&Number=1624352&page=0&fpart=2

And then it carried on here:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1629212/an/0/page/0#1629212

 

[vicijp]

The beach thing isnt really my point. My point is that with fractures that havent been caused by a specific accident (ie. a fall), there are too many possible factors to pinpoint any one cause. As you say, the horse was ploughing through deep mud - whos to say that didnt cause it?
Vets opinions? Did any of them examine the leg, or was it just hearsay? I dont know any hunt that would shoot one of their horses, and then get a vet to examine it.

 

[icemaiden113]

Saunton sands maybe?

Haven't been there they tell me it's really nice!! If there is ever chance to go in between hunting and showjumping i will try there!!

 

[icemaiden113]

The horse was not in deep mud, that was an example, what other factors are there? The horse was cantering down the road for the majority of the day!
Of course the lag was exmained! X-rays, scans the lot! How else would we know it had been shattered!
(Any post mortems that are required on hunt horses are normally done by the huntsman)

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I've not, being a novice rider, but I intend to. Also Braunton burros behind the beach might be good for riding.

 

[icemaiden113]

Thanks for that, will take the dogs first and check it out! (new to devon so don't really know about the beaches)
You should go novice or not, it's so much fun!!

 

[vicijp]

Yes, but the horse may have had a weakness there due to cantering through deep mud the week before. Sometimes with horses you need to look at the bigger picture - especially with fractures where so little is known about them.
I would have expected a horse with a shattered leg to have been shot on the spot - its not really as if theres any question about the matter.
An example for you. Was schooling horses one day over plastic pipes, about 2ft6 high. The horse in front of me brushed her hinds over the top of the pipe - not knocked or grazed, brushed. This filly shattered her fetlock joint. Now, I was right behind this filly and I can guarantee she did it on the pipe, not landing or afterwards (partly because she nearly took me out upon landing). If you look at the immediate picture she bust her joint on the jump, look at the bigger picture and there is no way that small amount of impact (ie none) could do that much damage. She could of had a weakness in there for days/weeks or months.
I am sure some horses do, although im not sure if that is actual medical fact.

 

[icemaiden113]

I can see your point and please don't think i am trying to get in an argument or be ignorant about this!
It could have had a weekness but the eventual injury was caused due to cantering on the road. It was not destroyed immediately as we were not aware how much damge was done, was your filly destroyed straight away?

 

[vicijp]

Im not trying to argue either, I would just like to know what evidence there was that made the road the sole factor?
Filly was done within 5 mins.

 

[Clodagh]

Thanks for that, will take the dogs first and check it out! (new to devon so don't really know about the beaches)
You should go novice or not, it's so much fun!!

Don't take the dogs on the Burros, friend has had 2 dogs die from adder bits there.

 

[Nigel]

Hi,


This was an interesting post, support Clodagh`s first post whole heartedly. The most experienced horseman I have ever known said the exact same words.

Cheers and chuckles


Nigel

 

[Brenter_Star]

I'd rather a nice, light, uphill canter on the roads than hammering along at what I describe as 'pikey pony trot' which is all on the forehand, slamming the joints.

Our hunt is pretty good in fairness - rarely actually canter in the road, but sometimes find harder farm tracks and so on - but there's usually some grass down the middle.