CAP Payments to the South Dorset Hunt from the European Union
- Thread starter Judgemental
- Start date
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
You are making a very fair point, as in the case of the ubiquitous, comment, "well they are not making it any more", if there are subsidies that in effect encourage ownership of land, in order to generate more and more subsidies, inevitably pushes up the price of land.
However, there is one fundamental that neutralises that particular abuse, 17 + million people voted to the leave the EU and one of the reasons was to scrap Farm Subsidies.
Technically on 1 February 2020 that is the end of EU Farm Subsidies as we know them.
Doubtless the government will introduce some sort of replacement for disadvantaged areas but legislation has to be passed through the House of Commons and Lords, between now and 30 January 2020 for that to happen in order to replace the abolished protocol.
One has always said, if one cannot make a farm pay without subsidies, then one should not be farming the property in the first place!
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Nothing changes about CAP payments until 2021, Judgemental. Until then, we continue to pay in, the EU continues to pay out and our terms of trade remain the same as before we left.
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Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Or so you may wish and or have been led to believe. The more cautious realise that the words COMMON AGRICULTURAL POLICY (which currently embraces 28 countries) ceases to embrace the United Kingdom on 1 February 2020. Bearing in mind there is the question of the new Primary Legislation going through Parliament, the Agricultural Bill, there are a considerable number of MP's asking a number of questions.
In July 2016 I posted the following on this very thread:
"But then, one can hardly have a referendum on the EU, without the inevitability of all this very interesting information coming to the surface. The Labour party who oppose hunting plainly support hunt's receiving money from Brussels. Weird".
South Dorset 7,805
Belvoir 5,660
Burton 1,593
Chesire 1,173
East Devon 1,699
East Essex 1,143
East Kent 1,776
Fernie 7,435
Grafton 1,106
Ledbury 5,024
South and West Wilts 1,059
Dartmoor 3,083
Melton 12,523
Puckeridge 1,215
Quorn 4,764
Braes of Derwent 1,120
Eggesford 1,692
Cotswold 11,761
Warwickshire 1,232
West Norfolk 2,530
Woodland and Pytchley 1,052"
Do you honestly expect the scrutineers of the new agricultural bill, to accept that tax payers money should be paid to packs of hounds. I gather this is a matter that is being discussed in depth in the corridors of the Palace of Westminster, 'coupled' to who should and who shouldn't receive these state benefits, immediately following the UK's departure from the EU on 1 February 2020. Plainly one of the features detailed as a reason for leaving the EU, was to abolish the tenets of the Common Agricultural Policy. Clearly the people voted for the abolition of vast sums of money, being paid to the already very rich for very little reason, other that they owned a few acres.
The mere fact that DEFRA have the most extraordinarily comprehensive Web Site, detailing every single Farmer, Owner Occupier, Tenant and Landowner in miniscule detail. Along with a clear statement, that everything concerning Farm Subsidies has to be wholly transparent. Is indicative of the way in which the concept is going to be judged and monitored for the foreseeable future by Civil Servants, Politicians and such as the writer, which is inevitable, if one takes state hand outs from the UK as opposed to the EU.
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honetpot
Well-Known Member
I have no idea why you think any changes should effect one set of landowners. As long as they are claiming for an activity lawfully what ever the goverment replaces these subsidies with the land owner will be able to claim them. I could claim them, but chose not to because I can not be bothered with the paperwork and the constraints it places on the landowner, you have to comply to claim the money.
Christmas Crumpet
Well-Known Member
The South Dorset actually have land they farm hence being able to apply for subsidies. No different to anyone else farming so why make a big deal out of it?!!!
The Fuzzy Furry
Getting old disgracefully
Judgemental, you really do type out of your ar5e sometimes.
I really think you need a holiday .......
I really think you need a holiday .......
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
lol, The Fuzzy Furry - Judgemental may NEED a holiday - at least it would shut him/her up for a bit if he goes somewhere with no signal (PLEASE!!) I think it would beeasier just to ignore his/her rantings!
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Oh goodness Mrs George, so many moons have passed since you dropped the whip into me. I always find your chastisement a moment of old established honour and excitement. However enough of my respectful salaams. Look at what is currently coming out of No 10 in terms of new and innovative policies.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
And how much would you you expect from Boris after winning a HUGE majority shortly before Christmas, getting some new Ministers in over the holiday, and then coping with the US assassinationm of the most dangerous man in the world? Hell, he's even had to delay his first budget because there are only so many hours in the day. In the next month, I am sure you will see quite a lot of innovation but there is something called 'priorities'. And fore the next month his priority will be delivering his manifesto promises and keeping us out of WW3, while continuing to back the USA in the Middle East. And if you cannot see THAT, Judgmental, then I give up on any hopes of seeing common sense from you.
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Still as feisty as ever but I do respect you. When The Prime Minister (let's call him that and not Boris) talks of waste in government departments, DEFRA is high on the agenda, in terms of wasteful farm subsidies. The latter clearly being in The Prime Minister's sights during the Referendum. Just because the EU pay a bunch of Itinerant Peasant Goat Herds and the like along the Mediterranean coast, does not mean, the rich well heeled entitled of Warwickshire, for example, should be in receipt of similar handouts after 1 February 2020. Certainly not packs of hounds, that money can go to hospitals, schools and potholes.
Fred66
Well-Known Member
The grants may change with regard to what they are given for post EU but many of the things that Landowners do are in the nations interests. Unless some recompense is given then it could well make it unviable for them to continue with these things. Things such as maintaining rights of way, granting permissive rights of way, cutting hedges, maintaining headlands etc.
The government will need to come up with a fair set of rules and administer the grants according to those rules and if the Hunts are eligible then they will benefit. You cannot go down the route of picking and choosing just because you happen to dislike hunts.
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
The agriculture team in DEFRA fought very, very hard for British farmers (OK landowners) to be paid EXACTLY the same as other members of the EU since in general British farms were larger and if there had been a cut off for acreage in reducing payments then Britain would have been disproportionally affected, and we were paying in plenty of money remember. I think that this is going back a bit, before the vast areas of East Germany and Poland were added, but the principle remained the same.
There have been some alterations to acreages and some minor tweaks, but if it is farm land then it doesn't matter who owns it, it all gets the same subsidy if the Cross Compliance regulations are complied with.
As I have stated previously, it was Labour Agriculture Minister Margaret Beckett who decided that it was landowners who should receive the subsidy, not the actual farmer - to the great astonishment of the farming community. That means that owner-occupiers receive the full subsidy, whereas tenants and those who rent grass keep and have a grazing licience have to come to their own arrangements, which vary.
Apparently the equivalent amount of subsidy will continue to be paid, although farmers are expecting the terms and conditions to alter. As for not being able to make a profit without subsidy - well as any farm accountant and they will tell you that virtually no farmer makes a profit from farming - but that it is more a subsidy to the consumer as it allows farmers to go on farming, producing food below the cost of production and therefore enabling food in the supermarkets to be plentiful and reasonably priced.
There have been some alterations to acreages and some minor tweaks, but if it is farm land then it doesn't matter who owns it, it all gets the same subsidy if the Cross Compliance regulations are complied with.
As I have stated previously, it was Labour Agriculture Minister Margaret Beckett who decided that it was landowners who should receive the subsidy, not the actual farmer - to the great astonishment of the farming community. That means that owner-occupiers receive the full subsidy, whereas tenants and those who rent grass keep and have a grazing licience have to come to their own arrangements, which vary.
Apparently the equivalent amount of subsidy will continue to be paid, although farmers are expecting the terms and conditions to alter. As for not being able to make a profit without subsidy - well as any farm accountant and they will tell you that virtually no farmer makes a profit from farming - but that it is more a subsidy to the consumer as it allows farmers to go on farming, producing food below the cost of production and therefore enabling food in the supermarkets to be plentiful and reasonably priced.