Capital Punishment

do you kit out with flourescent/reflective stuff when you go out?

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There's little doubt that there are innocent people in jail for murder. The choice is either raise the standard of proof so that they would have got off or fry them.

There is no standard of proof that guarantees a separation of innocent and guilty.
 
I expect the appeals court in your country is the same as in mine; a previously tried case cannot be brought to appeal without the production of new evidence? Therefore there would be no appeal if he did not manage to scrape together some further evidence which could prove his innocence. I believe that cases are reviewed once in a while, however this is not the norm as far as I am aware - once convicted of a crime you can't be retried for the same crime with the same evidence?
 
Well it's the slant you tapped on earlier in the conversation; in that if you knew that the death penalty was going to be given to someone, then you would not find them guilty - whether they were guilty or not. I guess it is just different people's takes on things. I would simply find the person guilty or not guilty based on the evidence in front of me - definitely not because of what might happen to them afterwards.
 
You still haven't answered my point though Tia. What about the innocent people that would get killed. Do you think there wouldn't be any or do you think their deaths would be justified.

Fair enough if you do but the point needs answering.
 
But it doesn't have to be evidence of innocence - it could be evidence that a lawyer spoke to a jury member or, to take a recent Canadian example, evidence that a subject matter expert was wrong in a different case entirely. In such a case as the jury tampering, you could be retried with exactly the same evidence.
 
Well lets hope that if you have a daughter that one of the Bulger killers meets doesn't meet them now he's got a new identity! How would you like him for a son in law?
 
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Would you go for a form of execution that maximised or minimised pain, or would you pick a sensible compromise?

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If there was absolutely no doubt (they admitted it) I would do to them exactly the same as they had done to my family member - wouldn't like doing it but I would!
 
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Ah right so you'd kill CHILDREN as well?


I'm definitely against that.

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In my mind they were at an age to know right from wrong but if you are against killing children maybe wait til they are 20!
 
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In my mind they were at an age to know right from wrong but if you are against killing children maybe wait til they are 20!

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Are you against killing children?

Not being funny but the Bulger killing was extremely horrific, I don't know if you know the details. Are you really saying that you would have exactly that done to those two children?
 
Until people are made to take responcability for their actions instead of mamby pamby excuses made by their lieywers, "oh I was drunk" "oh I was on drugs" oh i didn't know she was dead when I shagged her bloody blah blah, we will all be at risk from tossers and their actions daily in this wank country, best bet is let the family decide and carry out the sentence.
 
There was a horrendous round robin type e-mail going around recently about the Bulger killers. Basically encouraging the lynching of these kids. My queston is - why were they allowed to watch the Chuckie films and what were the parents teaching them? They were 10 for gods sake - does anyone really think they should have been executed. this e-mail was saying how awful it was that they were being given a new ID and being sent to start a new life in Aussie. Well if it werent for people who send these emails then maybe they would not have had to be sent away in the first place. Typical bloody 'Daily Mail' type stuff!

As for allowing the family to make the decision re. execution - the emotion involved is exactly why we have judges and juries to make objective decisions. Quite often families just need someone to pay for the crime and its not always the right person.
 
You're right. There are something like 15,000 or 20,000 murders per year in the States and only about 100 convicted murderers are given a sentence of death ... and that would be years and years down the line. Apparently convicted murderers have a 1 in 1,000 chance of being given the death sentence; so perhaps it isn't a deterent because hardly any are ever killed?

The deterent aspect is neither here nor there for me, it's the making sure anyone who is guilty of an horrendous crime, never ever does it again, that has me voting for the death penalty.

And as to the answer to the question - I formed my answer many years ago.
 
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Well lets hope that if you have a daughter that one of the Bulger killers meets doesn't meet them now he's got a new identity! How would you like him for a son in law?

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eh? I said I sometimes wished there was a death penalty in instances like that, although anti has a very good point, despite the fact that I ferociously believe they did know what they were doing I'm not sure I could sentence a 12 year old to death.

I would however have no problem in sentencing them to a life of useful work (in prision) with little or no luxuries.

And no daughter for me, but my friend who has just emigrated to Aus has one, so now my head is full of that thought
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I find the attitude towards child criminals to be very strange, why are they more worthy of this anger than adults who kill? Surely they are at an age, stage of development which makes their behaviour more understandable than an adult harming a child in any way.
 
I think in that instance it was more that the story was such a horrible one, child or adult.
 
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In my mind they were at an age to know right from wrong but if you are against killing children maybe wait til they are 20!

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Are you against killing children?

Not being funny but the Bulger killing was extremely horrific, I don't know if you know the details. Are you really saying that you would have exactly that done to those two children?

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I am actually against killing anyone and I'm not saying capital punishment is the answer but obviously people aren't too concerned about, raping, beating or killing someone because it keeps happening again and again.

These boys are a bad example to use because the crime was so terrible it upsets me just to think about it and there is no way I could do to them what they did to Jamie. Who in their right mind could?

The Bulger case was one of the most horrific cases ever and yes unfortunately I do know the gruesome details of what those boys did to him. I'm sorry but there must be something not quite right with those boys for them to be so evil. They didn't just kill him they tortured him!! They now have new identities, will probably meet, marry and have children with some poor girl who's not got a clue about their past - do you think that is acceptable? Would you be happy for your daughter to marry one of them?
 
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It has no place in a humane and civilised society. Anyone who says otherwise, well......

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Well, what? I make absolutely no bones about - if someone brutally raped or murdered my daughter I would want that inhuman person dead. No way would I want the b*st*rd being able to do that to any other family or child, and he certainly wouldn't if he was dead.

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Murderers come in many forms and all are sons/daughters of someone. Would you be happy killing someone whos only crime is being mentally ill or emotionally warped? Where do you draw the line, if there is a line to draw. Im sorry, for me the death penalty can lead to many other innocent deaths and is not an option. Death is not pretty in any form , whoever it touches.
I do believe that those found guilty should be given 'life', if appropriate, and that 'life' should mean exactly that = until the day you die of illness or your heart stops beating due to old age.
 
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It has no place in a humane and civilised society. Anyone who says otherwise, well......

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Well, what? I make absolutely no bones about - if someone brutally raped or murdered my daughter I would want that inhuman person dead. No way would I want the b*st*rd being able to do that to any other family or child, and he certainly wouldn't if he was dead.

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Murderers come in many forms and all are sons/daughters of someone. Would you be happy killing someone whos only crime is being mentally ill or emotionally warped? Where do you draw the line, if there is a line to draw. Im sorry, for me the death penalty can lead to many other innocent deaths and is not an option. Death is not pretty in any form , whoever it touches.
I do believe that those found guilty should be given 'life', if appropriate, and that 'life' should mean exactly that = until the day you die of illness or your heart stops beating due to old age.

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I am sorry but being mentally ill is NOT an excuse for rape and murder,they should not even be out on the streets,I am with Tia 150% on this one,I am a mother and if my daughter was raped/killed by anyone no matter if mentally ill or sane i would NOT rest until justice had been done and the criminal had suffered as much as possible...And if a child of mine did a crime and was put on death row of course i would be devestated and fight for him/her BUT i am raising my children to be responsible for their own actions !
I do wonder how many people writing in this thread are parents ??? I have always supported the death penalty ,where there are no doubt,these days it can take years after the crime has been done so the accused got plenty of time to prove he /she is innocent !!! Why should "they" be allowed to enjoy life after they have done an awful crime and hurted a whole family ? A life time prison sentence in a case like that is not punishment enough
 
I pray that you are in the minority and that the majority reason with their brain and not their base instinct.
Lets say that tomorrow I go to the market and someone shoves me to the floor, I get up and give them the slap that I think they are due-they fall backwards and whack their head on a rock=instant death. I am guilty of 'murder' -should I swing?
Lets say that I am mentally disturbed and was sexually abused by my aunt and cousin, I have grown up in a situation that leaves aa awful lot to be desired-I flip one day and strangle the school janitor-no, thats not romantic enough, I strangle my next door neighbours disabled little boy
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. Now, do I deserve to be swung? When the spotlight was on the US soldier who had thrown a pup down a ravine, many were ready to back him up with cries of.. he was stressed out etc.Those that murder in cold blood have serious problems and as far as I am concerned, cannot just be wiped out, it wont make society any safer nor will it make the individual feel any better. The death penalty is for short sighted people who are easily satisfied with 'nothing' cos thats exactly what you get-death (= nothing).
 
Sorry Pwhack, does the fact that I am childless make me a lesser human being? Does it make my opinion less worthy? This is the bigotry that I can not stand and makes me think that you and others have become anal. No children-no understand life in general. Frown, Mairi.
 
No you wouldn't be put on Death Row for those crimes. The Death Penalty is only given out to a few people who have been convicted of 1st degree murder ..... it isn't an option for manslaughter.
 
To all these PC people, what is so wrong to want revenge or retaliation, how can you ever know the depth of feeling you would have if one of your family became a victim of an appalling murder. Surely the only small comfort left would be the fact they could never do it to anyone else.
 
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