Care after covering

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haras

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My mare is due to be covered any day now and I have been advised to turn her away afterwards and not bring her onto the yard, as the stallions being there will make her come back in. I am just wondering what the truth in this is and if anyone has any experiences of this being the case.

The person who said it is the stallions owner and breeds quite a lot, but just thought I'd get other opinions. My mare is mareish around boys, does this make a difference?

Many thanks
 
haras said:
My mare is due to be covered any day now and I have been advised to turn her away afterwards and not bring her onto the yard, as the stallions being there will make her come back in. I am just wondering what the truth in this is and if anyone has any experiences of this being the case.

The person who said it is the stallions owner and breeds quite a lot, but just thought I'd get other opinions. My mare is mareish around boys, does this make a difference?
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If the presence of a stallion made mares come back into season, the horse would have been extinct tens of thousands of years ago!! :rolleyes:
 
I would disagree with the posters above I'm afraid.

Once your mare is covered and 'off' keep her away from any male horse, inc Geldings, until she is about 18 days post last covering, you can then try her with the stallion to see if she is coming back into season (or returning as it's called) but don't try her too long or hard. You could just have her scanned, but if you have stallions avaliable to use then that is cheaper!

You say your mare is mareish around boys, even more reason to keep her to girls only, all that screeching will turn her.

Stallions on the yard won't defiantly turn her, but there is a high chance and is it worth the risk?

The presence of a stallion does make a mare come into season, that is why you try them with a stallion! As for doing it 'in the wild', in the wild there is no pressure for early covering dates or for only a minimal number of coverings. If the mare returns for 5 cycles the stallion is there to cover her on the sixth. Eventually the mare will hold, or be barren. But that is an expensive route for domestic horse owners.
 
Surely (regarless of what you believe) you should ALWAYS have the mare scanned at 16-18 days? If you just tease with a stallion and she is in foal then how will you tell its not twins and one needs pinching?
 
Holly831 said:
Surely (regarless of what you believe) you should ALWAYS have the mare scanned at 16-18 days? If you just tease with a stallion and she is in foal then how will you tell its not twins and one needs pinching?
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Yes have her scanned if she hasn't returned, but if she is clearly coming back on then there is no need.
 
I believe it is a total old wives tale after working on a stud yard a few years ago. Mares will respond to a stallion if they are in season but not necessarily bring them into season. Once mares were covered on our yard they were then turned out with the other girls or sent home to their owners but even on the yard they werent seperated from the stallions in anyway except the usual.
 
I believe it is a total old wives tale after working on a stud yard a few years ago. Mares will respond to a stallion if they are in season but not necessarily bring them into season.

From that statement then why do you think mare's are tried with a stallion?Let me very much assure you all it is perfectly possible for ANY male horse to 'turn' a mare in the early stages of pregnancy,a golden rule is NEVER turn a gelding out with a mare when she come's back from stud as it can turn your mare even if its her life long companion,when your mare is covered and off keep her right away from the stallion, I would never keep in-foal mares with any male horse or even in the next field to her as he might turn her,.........is it worth the risk and all the money it has cost you to get her to this stage.That is my advice I work in the TB bloodstock industry and have done for 25 years.
 
Our Stallion lives in his paddock surrounded by his wives 5 and all our visiting mares we get them teased under his nose as he is next to them protecting them,he knows they are in foal at around 10 days and we scan and he is always right! we have run a stud here for 5 seasons and have never had mares having a problem.his wives get covered 1 and hold can expain to me why they then dont hold? if your right.
 
I have had pregnant mares who "squirt", usually when they are excited and we have become concerned, but they have remained pregnant and it was not anything to do with coming back into season.

It is great if you can separate mares and for the most part we do that but we have external circumstances where a teaser and a stallion are regularly exercised past our house and the girls get a bit ditzy. They socialise in the stables with geldings but not in the field and all has been well.

Also at most horse shows here where showing breeding stock is highly popular you can have one ring with Connemara stallions next to stinted broodmares with foal at foot and 2yo sport horse colts in the next ring and the mares do not take a bit of notice. So saying I would not show mares and foals, did it once and felt it completely unfair on the both of them.
 
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'Having a mare around a stallion will cause her to go into estrus'

This myth stems from the fact that mares show signs of being in season when they are presented with the required stimulus (i.e. a stallion). Some mares cycle silently, and will only show any sign of being in estrus when a stallion is nearby. Stallion presence does NOT cause estrus.

Quote from Andypandy 'Breeding Myths'

Mine are turned out with other mares, youngstock and my geldings and never had one come over even with a 12 month old colt (He was swiftly gelded when he showed interest...)

At 16-18 days teasing with a stallion will only show is the mare is/ is not in foal - It will NOT cause the mare to abort.
 
Pregnant mares squirt and show there pregnant status to the stallion to tell him they are pregnant, my own vets mare did this and we then scanned and yes in foal.all our pregnant girls do this in there early months of pregnany and you tease a mare with a stallion to see How ready and responive she is as some days she will be better and more on than others that why.
 
Pregnancy and a mares cycle are regulated by HORMONES - it is IMPOSSIBLE for a stallion to influence the mare's cycle. The reason we tease is because you can tell where the mare is in her cycle....its not to bring her on! Many mares will cycle silently, and will only show to a stallion rather than showing outwardly obvious signs.

Personally I would not turn a mare out with other males (stallions or geldings), for the simple fact I would not want a mare in early pregnancy upset by amorous males - THAT could cause the loss of a pregnancy, although its not THAT likely - but nothing to do with their ability to influence her hormones!
 
Personally I would not turn a mare out with other males (stallions or geldings), for the simple fact I would not want a mare in early pregnancy upset by amorous males - THAT could cause the loss of a pregnancy

Forgive me but is that what you would call 'turning' the mare then?Is that the very reason you would keep her away from ALL male's entire or geldings.
 
I know at least 6 of the most prestigious TB studs keep teaser stallions in the barn with thier broodmares - doesn't seem to affect their pregancy rates too badly ;)


Jamana said:
That is my advice I work in the TB bloodstock industry
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So do I
 
druid said:
I know at least 6 of the most prestigious TB studs keep teaser stallions in the barn with thier broodmares - doesn't seem to affect their pregancy rates too badly ;)
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And why are the teaser stallions kept in the same barn? So the barren mares hear, see and smell him and therefore stimulate their BRAIN to produce the HORMONES that promote/suppress oestrus. In much the same way that they would also be rugged, have increased feed and have the lights left on. (Or are those factors also unable to affect the purely chemical reaction of the oestrus cycle as well?) On these studs that you refer to, do the mares continue to live in that barn with him once they are covered and off? I would doubt it, if not just for the fact the majority would then be turned out until they are next up for trying. All of the big studs I have worked on/been involved with, have kept their teaser either within the Stallion yard or in their own separate yard.

No-one has said that the mere glimpse of an entire will immediately turn a mare, nor that she will instantly come into heat due to his proximity. The OP merely asked if the advice she had been given about keeping her recently covered mare away from the stallions was correct, or worth listening to. IMO it IS advice worth listening to and not an 'old wives tale', I always prefer to err on the side of caution esp when breeding mares.
 
Jamana said:
And why are the teaser stallions kept in the same barn? So the barren mares hear, see and smell him and therefore stimulate their BRAIN to produce the HORMONES that promote/suppress oestrus. In much the same way that they would also be rugged, have increased feed and have the lights left on. (Or are those factors also unable to affect the purely chemical reaction of the oestrus cycle as well?)
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Jamana, your posts have made me feel utterly compelled to post a response... and not for a good reason.

Mares cycle during the spring and summer months due to increases in day length and temperature affecting the pituitary gland, which increases levels of GnRH, leading to increases in LH & FSH. We mimic these day-length and temperature changes with lighting and rugging regimes in order to get the mares cycling earlier in the year. So, of course rugging and lighting can affect at what point the mare starts cycling.

Stallions and geldings cannot, and will not cause a mare to return to oestrus. Even with heavy teasing, and direct contact. A pregnant or dioestrus mare is under the influence of progesterone which is secreted by the corpus luteum (CL). A CL is destroyed by prostaglandin-F2-alpha, which is released by the endometrium (lining of the uterus). Presence of a stallion does not cause endometrial PGF2a release... and so cannot cause a return to oestrus.

It is advisable to keep pregnant mares and stallions/geldings separate because -some- mares WILL stand for a stallion or riggy gelding despite being pregnant. If the male mounts with an erection and penetrates the cervix, then that will cause abortion. I suppose, in that way (dependant on how far along the mare is) that might return her to oestrus at some point later!! But that is a physical/mechanical cause not a hormonal one!!

Introduction of a stallion to a mare in a teasing situation will have one of the following results:
1) the mare shows "in season" because she is in oestrus
2) the mare does not show "in season" because she is in dioestrus
3) the mare shows some submissive signs that are similar to those seen in oestrus, but is dioestrus

Repeated teasing of a mare will eventually lead to her showing signs of oestrus because she is progressing (independantly) through her cycle... not because the stallion "brought her in"...

I hope that clears things up for those reading this thread. Jamana - if you have any published evidence to suggest what you are saying is true, then please tell me where I can read it! :)
 
My infoal mare( foal due in 8 weeks) lives with her gelding companion, there is only the 2 of them and they were only seperated for the couple of hours it took each time to take her to be covered and take her home again. They have been with each other constantly since last summer from before i put her in foal.

I havent had a problem at all but my mare does not cycle on her own at all ( regumate has no effect on her at all) and had to be jabbed by the vet twice so I could get her covered (we had her scanned at 18 days post covering after first cycle and was scanned not in foal and certainly not in season, wouldnt tease either, the stallion couldnt get within sight of her without her kicking off) the experienced stud vet scanned her and has proved that she doesnt cycle not even silently.

I have worked on tb stud farms and our teaser lived in the same yard as the mares that had come inside to foal down and they never had any problems either and all he did was shout and scream at the mares all the time.
 
AndyPandy said:
Jamana, your posts have made me feel utterly compelled to post a response... and not for a good reason.
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Andy Pandy, There is no need to patronise me, I do understand how the mare's reproductive cycle works.


AndyPandy said:
I hope that clears things up for those reading this thread. Jamana - if you have any published evidence to suggest what you are saying is true, then please tell me where I can read it! :)
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What exactly is it that I am saying? I am replying to the OP who asked if it was advisable to keep her recently covered mare away from Stallions. IMO It is. Where would I find published material to support that?

External environmental factors can influence a mares cycle hence why I mentioned rugging etc.

"I have worked on tb stud farms and our teaser lived in the same yard as the mares that had come inside to foal down and they never had any problems either and all he did was shout and scream at the mares all the time."

I am sure even Andy Pandy would agree that it would be extremely hard for anything to turn a mare that is that close to foaling! Though what effect a stallion shouting and screaming at the mares all the time had on mares waiting to foal I can't imagine.
 
Lets not get into semantics eh Andy? I am sure you have heard that phrase and should well know the difference between 'turning' and aborting.

I am assuming that you are a vet, your patronising manner gives it away..........
 
Jamana - I'm sorry if my initial post was patronising. It's been a bad day! Please accept my apologies. I don't want this thread to get nasty! :)

I do disagree with your statments, however. I am also genuinely in the dark as to what you mean by "turn a mare" - I have not heard anyone use the phrase before...

I am not a vet... I am a physiologist... perhaps a physiologist at the end of a long day comes across as patronising? As above - please accept my apologies :)
 
AndyPandy said:
Jamana - I'm sorry if my initial post was patronising. It's been a bad day! Please accept my apologies. I don't want this thread to get nasty! :)

I do disagree with your statments, however. I am also genuinely in the dark as to what you mean by "turn a mare" - I have not heard anyone use the phrase before...

I am not a vet... I am a physiologist... perhaps a physiologist at the end of a long day comes across as patronising? As above - please accept my apologies :)
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Apology accepted! I don't want anything to turn nasty, but equally cannot just be told by various posters in roundabout ways that I have no idea.

As for 'turning' I assumed you would know what it meant as it has always been in common use on studs I have worked with.

Turning basically is any mare that unexpectedly returns to heat. Most likely candidates would be older mares with poor tone and open cervix on examination post covering to check for ovulation. Mares with low progesterone levels or mares that have been chemically induced (PGL).

Your examples previously about mares reactions at the trying board are correct in an ideal world, but some mares are almost behaviourally conditioned to show to a stallion- "See a male horse, must show" others will give mixed signals showing and aggressive, most normal in a mare with a retained CL and of course the old favourite, silent mares! Some mares will stand for a stallion until quite established in pregnancy, due to cycling on the other horn.

It's getting late now and I have had a long day too, so I will leave this here now. Hopefully the OP has answered her question, though I would not be certain!
 
Just in response to your question about keeping your mare away from a stallion post covering.... that's complete nonsense!!

I work on a large TB stud...

We tease the mares and have them ready for a vet to scan to assess the size of the follicle/follicles she has produced, and along with how she's teasing (and her history of teasing - as has been mentioned above some mares don't show... etc.. etc..) we work to send her to the covering shed..

2 days post covering, the mare will be teased again!

This is to show us.. if she has OVULATED! - not if she's in foal as I read before - if she's still teasing, she will be scanned again and possibly sent back to the shed depending on what the follicle is doing. (we ovuplant the mares to help them ovulate.. but we only send them to the shed when we are sure they are very close to ovulation.. so as to only cover once!)

If she has teased off.. it means she's ovulated or is still ovulating.. - and she will again be scanned for this....

14 days post ovulation she will be scanned to see if she is in foal or not.

We don't keep mares that have been covered away from stallions.. the teaser is kept in the barn with the mares.. some of which are 40+ days in foal.( stabled due to lameness or due to foals legs etc..). and it DOESN"T turn them - whatever that means! If the mare is in foal.. and loses it - i doubt it will be because of the teaser. its more likely to be something wrong with the embryo or placenta or mare..

How does a stallion run with his herd of mares in the wild and pro create if he wasn't meant to be near them once he'd covered them?

I think maybe it would be an idea to get some informed reading from the science books as some of the conversation on here seems to be misinformed!
 
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trumdella said:
Just in response to your question about keeping your mare away from a stallion post covering.... that's complete nonsense!!

I work on a large TB stud...

We tease the mares and have them ready for a vet to scan to assess the size of the follicle/follicles she has produced, and along with how she's teasing (and her history of teasing - as has been mentioned above some mares don't show... etc.. etc..) we work to send her to the covering shed..

2 days post covering, the mare will be teased again!

This is to show us.. if she has OVULATED! - not if she's in foal as I read before - if she's still teasing, she will be scanned again and possibly sent back to the shed depending on what the follicle is doing. (we ovuplant the mares to help them ovulate.. but we only send them to the shed when we are sure they are very close to ovulation.. so as to only cover once!)

If she has teased off.. it means she's ovulated or is still ovulating.. - and she will again be scanned for this....

14 days post ovulation she will be scanned to see if she is in foal or not.

We don't keep mares that have been covered away from stallions.. the teaser is kept in the barn with the mares.. some of which are 40+ days in foal.( stabled due to lameness or due to foals legs etc..). and it DOESN"T turn them - whatever that means! If the mare is in foal.. and loses it - i doubt it will be because of the teaser. its more likely to be something wrong with the embryo or placenta or mare..

How does a stallion run with his herd of mares in the wild and pro create if he wasn't meant to be near them once he'd covered them?

I think maybe it would be an idea to get some informed reading from the science books as some of the conversation on here seems to be misinformed!
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I am going to leave this thread alone now,as I do not want to have argument and I can see that I am for some reason the one to be singled our on this thread for the snide comments.

Let us just leave it that my experience and methods of dealing with mares are different to yours. DIFFERENT not WRONG. It does not mean that I do not know what I am doing or that I am foolish. In fact the method described above is exactly how our mares are dealt with, tried/covered until they are off ie ovulated.

To the OP, Good Luck with your mare and your foal next year.
 
Jamana said:
And why are the teaser stallions kept in the same barn? So the barren mares hear, see and smell him and therefore stimulate their BRAIN to produce the HORMONES that promote/suppress oestrus. In much the same way that they would also be rugged, have increased feed and have the lights left on. (Or are those factors also unable to affect the purely chemical reaction of the oestrus cycle as well?) On these studs that you refer to, do the mares continue to live in that barn with him once they are covered and off? I would doubt it, if not just for the fact the majority would then be turned out until they are next up for trying. All of the big studs I have worked on/been involved with, have kept their teaser either within the Stallion yard or in their own separate yard.
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Yes, they are until at a minimum the 61/2 day sex scans!
 
I said that I would not post any-more on here,but druid tell me when do you send mares home because most go home from here at 42 days,I do not accept any sensible TB stud would keep mares covered and off in the same barn as any stallion,as he may turn them.IME most owners want the mare home as it cost so much keeping them at stud and if you have say a old mare or a mare that has been on for a while longer than normal are you really saying that it is perfectly normal to house that mare in the same barn as a entire who may try her as in my experience she would be a prime candidate to turn,
 
Depends entirely on the owners. Our general rule of thumb is after the sex scan (so 62 days IF), some go home as early as the 28 day scan, some are here for 5-6 months each year and some are permenant residents.

Owners often visit their mares and know full well a teaser stallion is in residence in each barn, no-one has ever had a problem to my knowledge with this practice.

The stallion cannot "try" the mares unless we offer them up for teasing. They do however have contact in that he is stabled side by side (all be it with solid walls) with mares, across from mares etc. They can of course see, hear and smell him.

Tbh, the cost of keeping mares at stud is negligble when you consider stud fees for TBs in general!
 
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