Carnage in the name of 'Religion'

Ok, so Im going against the grain here. Yes the images are upsetting to us WESTERNISED animal lovers.

These people know no different, and probably never will. These people live in fear of their gods, and not doing these rituals, they believe will cause them and theirs huge harm, and upset.

I also dont see how they are tortured to death...... I figure having your head cut off it one swift blow, isnt such a bad way to go.

Obviously I dont find these pictures nice, and the live ones laying down with the carcasses is to my mind imensely disturbing.

All I am saying is just becasue we percieve something as wrong (in our nice cosy little 3 bed semi, with our horses out at full livery, earning 15k+ a year) doesnt mean for others it is just not everyday life!
 
bloody evil. sick. degraded. In the name of religion ? No deity would condone that barbaric stuff. I think maybe you should have put a warning on before peeps look at it tho.

While I'm at it, nothing is ever done about the horrific sheep slaughter just outside of Paris in the name of Allah - killing outside an EU licenced abbatoir is illegal in the EU, so why is NOTHING done about it. It's as bad as this, and is right on our doorstep. And yet how many of our abbatiors have closed down cos of EU regs. We are the only ones that listen, and lose out.

AND why is halal slaughter still allowed in this country ? It all just makes me sick to my stomach.
 
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lexiedhb said:
Ok, so Im going against the grain here. Yes the images are upsetting to us WESTERNISED animal lovers.

These people know no different, and probably never will. These people live in fear of their gods, and not doing these rituals, they believe will cause them and theirs huge harm, and upset.

I also dont see how they are tortured to death...... I figure having your head cut off it one swift blow, isnt such a bad way to go.

Obviously I dont find these pictures nice, and the live ones laying down with the carcasses is to my mind imensely disturbing.

All I am saying is just becasue we percieve something as wrong (in our nice cosy little 3 bed semi, with our horses out at full livery, earning 15k+ a year) doesnt mean for others it is just not everyday life!
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I am an animal loving vegetarian, and I kind of agree with what you are saying, although in my mind religion is responsible for so many disturbing acts of violence! I think we as a country are civilised and the majority of us are compassionate and do not like to see animals suffering. But i also feel that this is not much different to a slaughter house. We kill millions of animals in the UK. I know that is for 'food' but it is still death. You could go as far as saying we don't need meat to survive, but we still kill many animals, i know it's different but in my mind i can't pass comment on what they do knowing we do the same. For different reasons but still the same. I am 100% against the killing of any animal for human gain, so am against what they are doing, and am also against slaughter for meat.

As usual my wording and phrasing is not great but it is ones honest opinion :)
 
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These people know no different, and probably never will. These people live in fear of their gods, and not doing these rituals, they believe will cause them and theirs huge harm, and upset.
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Actually, it has more to do with tradition than religion - so can't agree with you I'm afraid.

It's just a blood bath, and really in this day and age there is absolutely no excuse or reason for it. I'm quite appalled that anyone would think it was acceptable.
 
not saying i agree with it and at 8.15 am the pictures don't farewell with my breakfast but i would rather see them killed this way as in 1 quick decapitation than what spanish do to bulls with spears in the name of fun! doesn't matter where you look you will find this sort of thing everywhere, agree religion has allot to answer for this is so true!


Please don't think im all for this im a animal lover and if i could stop it i would but its more humane than some other religious sacrifices and animal sports
 
In some shops near us Halal chicken is actually cheaper than 'ordinary' chicken and some people who buy on price don't even know what it means!
 
Acctually, it says there are no rules or laws which say people have to sharpen the knives etc and many of the animals suffer a long and drawn out decapitation. I wouldn't call that one swift blow. :(
 
We all know that religion has caused quite a few bloodbaths in the past - the crusades, need I say more.

Unfortunately, in many countries outside of the cosiness of the First World, things like these do not seem to produce the horrific images that we see in our heads. In those countries, where humans and animals vie for food, animals aren't really seen as "pets". Also, according to them, "this death to please the gods is also interpreted as doing the animal a favor by releasing it from a life of suffering, amid hopes that it may be reborn as a much more fortunate human".

People there aren't quite "educated" about animals the way we are over here. There, animals either exist for food or work - and with work, I don't mean doing circles in trot and canter for an hour or so, with the occasional jump thrown in. Only a very small percentage are lucky enough to be beloved pets! Religion takes a bigger form than it does over here - it seems that it provides them with their only glimmer of hope as that is what has been drilled into them from a young age. Replace Maths, English, etc. with Religion, Sacrifices, etc. in your upbringing, and you will get the same results as you get over there. Much of their religion assume some type of fate... it's often not about education + working harder = better life. It's more that you get born a certain way and when you live your life by the book (mainly consisting of worshipping your gods), you may get a better life next time round.

I do believe that the only way to get rid of things such as this would be to move to a 100% secular state, improve education (with little influence from religion) and the economy in general... as in why would you have to sacrifice anything at all if things are going well, you see.
 
lexiedhb said:
Ok, so Im going against the grain here. Yes the images are upsetting to us WESTERNISED animal lovers.

These people know no different, and probably never will. These people live in fear of their gods, and not doing these rituals, they believe will cause them and theirs huge harm, and upset.

I also dont see how they are tortured to death...... I figure having your head cut off it one swift blow, isnt such a bad way to go.

Obviously I dont find these pictures nice, and the live ones laying down with the carcasses is to my mind imensely disturbing.

All I am saying is just becasue we percieve something as wrong (in our nice cosy little 3 bed semi, with our horses out at full livery, earning 15k+ a year) doesnt mean for others it is just not everyday life!
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Actually, if you read the blog you will see that cruelty did indeed happen, none of the animals were fed or watered for days prior to the mass slaughter, many of the younger animals died through stress before the event. It was also a free for all and anyone could kill anything with anything. Some of the knives were blunt and not all the people killing were experienced enough to make a quick kill. Mothers were killed in front of calves and vice versa, how is that not cruelty?
 
QR
I didn't open the link and do not intend to

The things man will do to man (and any other thing on this planet) in the name of religion/belief never cease to dismay me. Sadly, nothing surprises me any longer and it saddens me that as a non-believer in any form of God, that 'divine retribution' will not happen to any individual or group who carry out these ridiculous acts of abhorrent and wanton destruction. The things I would wish upon them belie my genuinely pacifist nature.

It is also why, in the light of their uneducated, and wholly 'religion orientated' lives the world is such a dangerous place to be now. Too many are doing things because their deity dictates it. Scary.
 
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SirenaXVI said:
Actually, if you read the blog you will see that cruelty did indeed happen, none of the animals were fed or watered for days prior to the mass slaughter, many of the younger animals died through stress before the event. It was also a free for all and anyone could kill anything with anything. Some of the knives were blunt and not all the people killing were experienced enough to make a quick kill. Mothers were killed in front of calves and vice versa, how is that not cruelty?
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I didn't read the blog, and that is just awful. :(
 
absolutely disgraceful. No human should inflict that unneccesary pain or suffering on anything, human or animal for whatever reason and especially not for tradition or religion.

More importantly what can we do to stop it happening??? Does anyone know??
 
QR

Yes, they breached just about every piece of legislation available to protect animals at slaughter. However. The numbers of water buffalo killed there is vastly, and I mean VASTLY shadowed by the numbers you kill and eat every day.

With some legislation in force, they can continue their ceremony.

The link is NOT at all gross/disgusting - unless you are THAT detatched from your own meat eating habits that you're in denial that what is on your plate is a headless animal. However, knowing that they were in great emotional distress prior to slaughter IS upsetting and I hope campaigners work to improve their condition, not ban it altogether!
 
SirenaXVI said:
Actually, if you read the blog you will see that cruelty did indeed happen, none of the animals were fed or watered for days prior to the mass slaughter, many of the younger animals died through stress before the event. It was also a free for all and anyone could kill anything with anything. Some of the knives were blunt and not all the people killing were experienced enough to make a quick kill. Mothers were killed in front of calves and vice versa, how is that not cruelty?
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That is simply disgusting and this is what I do not get - How humans can go through something like that actually take part in the mass slaughter and cause immense stress and pain to another living being. I cannot fathom it.


Harper_Gal said:
The link is NOT at all gross/disgusting - unless you are THAT detatched from your own meat eating habits that you're in denial that what is on your plate is a headless animal.
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What a peculiar comment to write!
 
heidirusso said:
That is simply disgusting and this is what I do not get - How humans can go through something like that actually take part in the mass slaughter and cause immense stress and pain to another living being. I cannot fathom it.
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It's probably because you don't live in that environment - an environment that doesn't really classify animals as "worth" a lot. If people are brought up not necessarily respecting/admiring animals, thinking their lives are worthless, that's what you get...
 
Harper_Gal said:
QR

Yes, they breached just about every piece of legislation available to protect animals at slaughter. However. The numbers of water buffalo killed there is vastly, and I mean VASTLY shadowed by the numbers you kill and eat every day.

With some legislation in force, they can continue their ceremony.

The link is NOT at all gross/disgusting - unless you are THAT detatched from your own meat eating habits that you're in denial that what is on your plate is a headless animal. However, knowing that they were in great emotional distress prior to slaughter IS upsetting and I hope campaigners work to improve their condition, not ban it altogether!
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Completely agree with this.

However, not understanding the shock at "these people" doing it... It's a hindu "festival" isn't it? As far as I know they're pretty into their rituals/sacrifices...

Rather than condemn and just say "NO, you are barbaric foreigners, stop that at once", surely a little education and help wouldn't go amiss?

Human life is often worth so little in these areas, that the welfare of a buffalo calf isn't high up on your agenda.
 
amymay said:
Tinkerbee, Harper_Gal, are you both so totally without compassion??

I am shocked to the core.
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Nope. I didn't say it was acceptable, I find it disgusting. But its true, we slaughter loads here as well, just because we use different methods and the streets aren't "awash with blood", or whatever the quote is, doesn't make it entirely different.

I don't have all the facts on the ritual but I wouldn't have thought the starve them/hack at them with blunt knives for the sheer giddiness of causing as much pain as possible, just for the hell of it. No?

Would it not be better to educate those in charge/leaders in animal welfare and try and compromise so they can still offer sacrifices to their gods, but with minimal suffering?

I'm not condoning it at all, but its very easy for us to be shocked, appalled and call for a ban, sitting at home on our broadband connection, waiting for our roast dinner...
 
Tinkerbee said:
Completely agree with this.

However, not understanding the shock at "these people" doing it... It's a hindu "festival" isn't it? As far as I know they're pretty into their rituals/sacrifices...

Rather than condemn and just say "NO, you are barbaric foreigners, stop that at once", surely a little education and help wouldn't go amiss?

Human life is often worth so little in these areas, that the welfare of a buffalo calf isn't high up on your agenda.
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Given human life is worth so little over there, how about we do that to them and see whether they think it is vile then.

These animals died for NOTHING, NO reason at all other than some pointless religious clap trap. Eating meat is entirely different - we have a reason for killing them, and it is done in a humane way.
 
Tinkerbee said:
Would it not be better to educate those in charge/leaders in animal welfare and try and compromise so they can still offer sacrifices to their gods, but with minimal suffering?
There is no God there, or anywhere.

This is just one of many millions absurd, odd, pointless cultures/traditions that have absolutely no sense to anyone, least of all the poor animals in this world which take the brunt of it.

Honestly, yes we are lucky to be western but when you have poeple with, so called perfectly good lives killing others for fun, when you have religous oddballls doing mass slaughter and groups blowing themselves up you wonder what the hell is going on out there!

You are openminded but little else.
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Well.

Had the animals been slaughtered humanely, I wouldn't really have cared, for the exact same reasons stated above. I eat meat, I'm not ignorant to the fact it was once a living animal and has been killed.

However one would hope to God (can't see any real God agreeing with the wanton obliteration of one of his creatures though..) that the lamb on my plate hadn't had his head chopped off by someone untrained, without the slaughter know-how, with an instrument not designed for the job, with no thought to its welfare or wellbeing, while lying in the blood of slaughtered herd mates. Sorry but its utter barbarity in my eyes.

It's just another example of people misusing relgion to facilitate grotesque crimes against each other or in this case, animals.
 
HarrietLong said:
Given human life is worth so little over there, how about we do that to them and see whether they think it is vile then.

These animals died for NOTHING, NO reason at all other than some pointless religious clap trap. Eating meat is entirely different - we have a reason for killing them, and it is done in a humane way.
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First of all, I do NOT condone what they are doing.

But what if you believe that:

a) you had no education and didn't know what other nations would think of as barbaric;
b) by killing those animals, your God will give you a better life or at least save you or so;
c) those animals will come back as a "better" creature due to their sacrifice;
d) life expectancy is so low - in one area, it's 44 years old, the average wage of a person in Nepal is less than £10 a month (if they're lucky).

Seriously, growing up in that environment wouldn't have made you the person you are now. Yes, religion might be **** to you, but what if you really believed your life depended on a God somewhere out there?

And we should get off our high horses a bit (that we don't do things like that). When we go to the supermarket, we can see that the value of one chicken's life is around £3. When fish get caught, culling gets done on an every day basis in a similar fashion (what - fish aren't equal to mammals?).

Do people actually know how expensive equipment for humane killing of animals for food consumption, etc. are - particularly considering their wages? As they don't have our luxury, they are killing the animals the way they would probably kill them for food - with knives, however blunt they may be.
 
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I really don't follow ignorance or religious upbringing as an excuse for this, I'm sorry, but inherant humanity should teach you the infliction of pain onto another being is wrong. Tempered by need, you can understand a humans need to kill, for meat, for clothes, for protection etc. Surely evolution should have hit them the same as us and they should realise the stupidity of the claim that "killing animals makes the re-appear as higher beings" or "it gives us good luck" forgive me I'm paraphrasing. I'm all for religion, but not cruelty for religion and not blind religion (begetting simple common sense!!) Surely if they realise, which of course they must, that their £10 a month is quite a lot less than the western world's monthly wage - and WE don't slaughter animals like that, that maybe their little practise, isn't so lucky at all..?
 
In response to those who consider Halal killing inhumane, you should note that slaughter for Kosher meat follows an identical protocol. The method of killing is severing of the jugular so the animal loses consciousness very quickly and has a fast death. Bear in mind the Torah is 3000 years old and the Quran 1400 years old. Before stunning and bolts to brain, that is a considerable number of years where these regulations were able to enforce as humane a method as possible for the slaughter of animals.

Whether it remains the most humane method is actually not a straightforward matter, but one that is still open to debate. This BBC news article puts arguments on all sides quite well:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2977086.stm

I personally am a vegetarian. We as humans can exist perfectly well without consuming meat or using animal by-products. I agree that the method in which the animals are dispatched in the festival mentioned causes further unnecessary suffering to the animals. But whenever you eat meat you are directly responsible for the death of an animal that would, otherwise, not have been killed. (True that the animal may not then have been bred in the first place; but is it preferable to raise an animal purely to be slaughtered, to never having enabled it to be bred in the first place?) 20% of the income of the slaughter industry comes from hide by-products so a similar argument (though to a lesser degree) comes with the support of the leather trades.

For me, such a festival is more closely allied with raising animals for slaughter (slaughter by whichever method). If you don't insist upon free-range chicken and wild fish, you are supporting a lifetime of misery for those animals rather than, as appears to be the case, a few weeks for this festival. Even dairy farming for milk production, even in this country, sometimes leaves a lot to be desired on the animal welfare front.

It is admirable to highlight this festival. Perhaps, in addition, we would all do well to honestly examine the animal products we purchase, the lives they lead prior to slaughter, and whether such slaughter is ever justified.
 
Firstly, nobody of sane mind can defend this horrendous act.

Secondly, 16,000? Show me where "god" said you must slay 16,000 water buffalo! I think not!

I quite frankly dont give a rats ar*e what their upbringing and education is. NOTHING can justify this act.

Educating them is no doubt the answer.

Oh, and I`m not a vegetarian, I shoot game, I take home reared animals to slaughter, I have watched the process and I buy meat locally. Hypocrite? No, I buy local meat that is slaughtered at the abbatoir I watched my pigs being slaughtered in.
 
I can't understand how some people can compare what has been shown on here by the OP as being the same as what happens to the meat we eat and how it is killed. The mind baffles.....
 
CNM said:
I can't understand how some people can compare what has been shown on here by the OP as being the same as what happens to the meat we eat and how it is killed. The mind baffles.....
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Again, not condoning them, but I think most of us won't know how those people think. I have been to places near Nepal, and the people there are really different. Whilst a lot of people here would dread to think just getting a lamb off the field and culling it... that's the norm there of killing animals there, and probably how it was many years ago here. You have to understand, they are not living in the world you and I live in. If we went back in time to Britain 300 years ago, we'd be shocked about things then, too.

Countries like Nepal are like... seriously... poor with very few wealthy people. And they aren't just behind in terms of technology, but also in terms of mentality - particularly in animal welfare. In those countries, the technology for humane slaughter may be too expensive, so they may use a knife to kill an animal - whether it be for food or not.

But fish just get slaughtered with knife as well - unless, of course, fish is worth less than mammals (which to many people, they are).
 
So the act of sacrificing animals is cruel because there is no god.

That is the most absurd argument I've heard all day. and I've spent most the day having a particularly absurd argument about travellers.

I have compassion, compassion enough to understand these people FEAR their gods. They fear the retribution of not performing ceremonies. Hindu's are very spiritual people, so to suggest their religion is fake is cruel.

I am not christian, but I do not agree any one religion is wrong. I believe the gods have many forms and that everyone is of equal right to believe what they wish. I believe that if Christians really must inform me I'm going to spend eternity in a place I don't believe in for not believing in something else then they can get their jollies off that.

I believe if an animal is killed in such a manner than it does not suffer then there is little harm.

I can't think of the statistics off the top of my head, but about half of what we kill is eaten in this country. In fact, we've bred animals to suffer in order to reduce that waste. Even if those animals go for carrion, then it's still less than what we waste in this country. (and I believe you can feed catagory 3 slaughterhouse waste to birds of prey in the UK... so really, I can't see much of a difference in killing 16,000 beef cows. Except you get your burgers and steak from the cows, whereas these people get spiritual elightenment...)

There is just so much spiritual ignorance and hatred of others flying at the moment, both in the media and in this thread.

I have seen animals slaughtered (outside of the EU) and it's messy, smelly, gross, disgusting, wrong... whatever you want to call it. But most of that happens once they're dead.

Train people to kill quickly and peacefully and stunning or no, animals don't suffer. They don't care about the mess it makes afterwards, they're already gone.
 
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