Carnaval Drum as an Eventing Sire?

lex2501

lex2501

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 May 2011
Messages
1,474
Location
Hampshire
Visit site
Can I rack your brains guys?!

I'm in the very early stages of thinking about finding myself a nice youngster to produce to event. An option has come up much sooner than I had expected but sounds very appealing. It's for a smart little chap by Carnaval Drum. Has anyone had any experiences with CD offspring for eventing?

Thoughts, experiences, pearls of wisdom please!! thank you! :D
 
LEC said:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=82886

I have seen a few - nothing terribly special but will do the job up to Novice level type thing. Would never be my first choice for offspring if I wanted something super talented but for an amateurs horse quite possibly.
Click to expand...

Apologies - very dumb of me not to search the breeding forum! That made for very interesting reading, not quite as keen as I was before as temperament is SO important to me. Give me a good brain over a good body any day ;)

I have never really considered breeding when choosing horses up to now to be honest as I have always gone on records, and what I like to sit on which won't get me very far with babies!!
 
My daughter has a Carnaval Drum son:

b-2.jpg


a-7.jpg


She has been successful in PC/RC eventing (1m) this year with him, and plans to BE next year. He nearly always does a nice dressage, is careful showjumping, makes the time easily XC, but is sometimes a bit cautious jumping, but that is improving with experience. He is the sort of horse that tries very hard to please.

A friend also has a CD son who is pretty similar and competes at the same level.
 
Lady in our RC owns Carnaval Prince - very smart and talented chestnut horse evented by Ruth Edge up to 3* level. She also has a 7 year old mare by same sire she rides herself who is a very smart looking bay but quite big. Both move very nicely and look very smart event types.
 
I have just done a BE results search for Carnaval prefixed horses and the majority of horses sired by CD have pretty uninspiring results. A couple in good hands have gone relatively far, but the majority look to be unreliable XC.
 
I am fascinated with breeding in horses. Partly because it will tell you a lot about the potential of a horse in the future. I also find horses I like the look of and the way that they are doing the job are usually well bred or have lines that I like.

It is why I am not a coloured/fancy colour horse fan because somewhere for me there will be a performance weakness. I am only a mere amateur but you buy the best horse you can and shoot for the stars in the hope of hitting the moon!
 
LEC said:
I am fascinated with breeding in horses. Partly because it will tell you a lot about the potential of a horse in the future. I also find horses I like the look of and the way that they are doing the job are usually well bred or have lines that I like.

It is why I am not a coloured/fancy colour horse fan because somewhere for me there will be a performance weakness. I am only a mere amateur but you buy the best horse you can and shoot for the stars in the hope of hitting the moon!
Click to expand...

I think this is going to be a fascinating learning curve for me...! I am totally clueless on the subject - lots of homework required before I commit to anything. I might start investigating blood lines of horses I like which are currently competing successfully and see if there are any common lines that keep cropping up. I guess that would be a good starting point! Thanks for your pointers ... I may well come back to you with a whole load more Qs!! :D
 
just had a mare here that's a carnival drum horse - did very well - did sunshine tour etc - but then went onto BSJA and didnt do well (*cough* rider *cough* ;))
she was very talented - double clears at INT level then she was sold - could she have gone further? who's to know? but she def seemed to have the scope and had a lovely attitude
 
I've known 3. One I was considering buying. I don't know about eventing as they were not eventers but i'll tell you about the 3. Firstly they all looked the same! Nice looking liver chestnuts. They were all quite characterful and needed routine and good handling but they weren't bad or anything. Good movers and jumpers but a bit inconsistent, cheeky. That's why I didn't buy the one, he would stop if you didn't ride him perfectly. Not so good for me who needs a helping hand once in a while!
It doesn't surprise me with the results of the BE website.
 
That is how I got interested in breeding. I look at all the horses I absolutely love or if I see something that blows me away out eventing and then just look up the breeding. Sporthorse Data is my favourite website for bloodlines.

I have a big love for Selle Francais horses at the moment so that is what I am currently learning about as not at all clued up on it.
 
My friend had a chestnut mare by him that I used to help her with and she could be a real handful at times. Definitely needed regular riding to keep her mind on the job!
 
TGM said:
My daughter has a Carnaval Drum son:

b-2.jpg


a-7.jpg


She has been successful in PC/RC eventing (1m) this year with him, and plans to BE next year. He nearly always does a nice dressage, is careful showjumping, makes the time easily XC, but is sometimes a bit cautious jumping, but that is improving with experience. He is the sort of horse that tries very hard to please.

A friend also has a CD son who is pretty similar and competes at the same level.
Click to expand...

He looks really lovely - thank you so much for sharing! My aim would be to go Novice and beyond so not sure if a CD sired horse may prove a bit too cautious? Really interesting to see that there are so many commonalities amongst the CD siblings!

DarkHorseB said:
Lady in our RC owns Carnaval Prince - very smart and talented chestnut horse evented by Ruth Edge up to 3* level. She also has a 7 year old mare by same sire she rides herself who is a very smart looking bay but quite big. Both move very nicely and look very smart event types.
Click to expand...

Looking at the results, Ruth Edge seems to have ridden a few Carnaval horses for different owners and has had some good success, and great dressage results as you would expect! I wonder if she has ridden a number by coincidence, or because she quite likes them, or because she has proven results with them?! Thanks for the info though, much appreciated! If I was as talented as RE I would be very keen!

posie_honey said:
just had a mare here that's a carnival drum horse - did very well - did sunshine tour etc - but then went onto BSJA and didnt do well (*cough* rider *cough* ;))
she was very talented - double clears at INT level then she was sold - could she have gone further? who's to know? but she def seemed to have the scope and had a lovely attitude
Click to expand...

Thank you for the info! As an amateur I guess I need something that will be forgiving so perhaps they are more suited to pros? All great food for thought :)

Firewell said:
I've known 3. One I was considering buying. I don't know about eventing as they were not eventers but i'll tell you about the 3. Firstly they all looked the same! Nice looking liver chestnuts. They were all quite characterful and needed routine and good handling but they weren't bad or anything. Good movers and jumpers but a bit inconsistent, cheeky. That's why I didn't buy the one, he would stop if you didn't ride him perfectly. Not so good for me who needs a helping hand once in a while!
It doesn't surprise me with the results of the BE website.
Click to expand...

Thanks Firewell :) I think that sounds like the general consensus - talented but not the most reliable which is perhaps not ideal for an amateur like me. Incidentally... how is Jae bred ?! ;) :p

LEC said:
That is how I got interested in breeding. I look at all the horses I absolutely love or if I see something that blows me away out eventing and then just look up the breeding. Sporthorse Data is my favourite website for bloodlines.

I have a big love for Selle Francais horses at the moment so that is what I am currently learning about as not at all clued up on it.
Click to expand...

Funny you say that - Selle Francais is top of my wishlist! Thanks so much for the website advice too... Do you mind if I send the odd PM if I have any questions?!

Billabongchick said:
My friend had a chestnut mare by him that I used to help her with and she could be a real handful at times. Definitely needed regular riding to keep her mind on the job!
Click to expand...

Very interesting - perhaps not ideal for an amateur with a very full-time job!!! Thank you :)
 
LEC - good luck with your research on SF

For info my mare is a Swedish warmblood but the sire was SF (Turban Rose) and the dam was Irish thoroughbred (line to Santas Sleigh / Santa Claus) but as Turban Rose was standing in Sweden that's why she was registered as she is. His earlier foals before he was exported were registrered SF. A lot of this happens within many of the continental breeds.

Within the SF lines there also appears to be quite a mix of types with a varying degree of TB influence.
 
Thanks Firewell :) I think that sounds like the general consensus - talented but not the most reliable which is perhaps not ideal for an amateur like me. Incidentally... how is Jae bred ?! ;) :p
Click to expand...

Awww Jae :) :), some freakazoid racing lines bless him. Think Danehill one side, Mr prospector the other.. prob not much used to you though!

This might be one to consider:-

http://www.etheridgefarmstud.co.uk/roviris.

My friend had a horse by him and my god she was stunning, brave and so talented, really top class.

I was looking for a stallion for my late mare before she died. She was a very fine boned TB and I really liked this chap:-

http://www.balinmorestud.com/rebelara.htm

Not everyones cup of tea but I watched some vids of him and he looked so big hearted and generous. Like an overgrown connie! I thought he would be really nice with a lw mare. I've only found one with his prefix on BE not to say there isn't others with different names but this one looks very amature owned but honest:-
http://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/Events/Results.aspx?HorseId=57457

I think both these are dead now but still might be able to get frozen semen.
 
Al had a Carnaval Drum mare, truly amazing little pony (dam was a mare called Grasshopper, and Ellie never grew to the height they wanted!). She was astonishingly scopey and competitive and merrily jumped round PC Open tracks without looking like she was trying. Her BE results are very uninspiring, but outside of BE they had a lot of success including qualifying for the PC championships. Her SJ was her forte, but the jumps were there to be tackled whatever the setting! Her faults XC were entirely due to a very inexperienced young jockey. She was tricky, and had gained a bad reputation for being a dirty stopper which was fair- if she stopped, Al fell off. Luckily, she liked Al though :D She was the absolute definition of mareish though, and sometimes would come out and go 'make me!' in the dressage.

God she could jump though- she was 14.2hh and 1.15m wasn't too much for her!
[youtube]NUwo9WTAC4Y[/youtube]
Is her in action- the dressage shown was a good example of her being a tit- she'd either get a 20s score, or a 40s. When she did that, it was tricky to get sense out of her!

319527_2638206801521_675322263_n.jpg


http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1091921177798.2014069.1219588210&type=3
Album here too.

She didn't touch a pole in the years Al had her, which is impressive going too!
 
I have a CD grand daughter - you could put your kid or your granny on her providing they cannot ride. Put a 'rider' on her and she will jump to the challenge. She jumps anything. She is very quirky (I think manmade) and has not done much competing since I 'rescued' her 4 years ago. She is very strong willed but very sensitive at the same time. I managed to track her breeder and just wish i had got her as a 4 year old instead of a nine year old.

Good luck with your search :)
 
I used to SJ one, he looked similar to the ones posted here, a rather stringy bright chesnut of 16.1. He was nice enough, and jumped at smallish BS level, but I didn't find he had much oomph. Perfect for an amatuer, but not if you're very ambitious!
 
This http://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/events/Results.aspx?HorseId=98515 is a Carnaval Drum mare, who has gone from BE90 to winning a Novice in one season. HOWEVER she has been very tricky for a very good jockey used to dealing with tricky ones, so I'd say not your average amateur situation.

She is also out of a Grade A mare, so the jumping is there. From what I can see, that's a big problem with predicting what a CD horse might be like - he covered a lot of random mares because they were close (his stallion career predates ubiquitous use of AI) and so a very mixed bag, much different from the sort of books many Continental stallions have.

Re breeding, we put a lot of stock in stallions because it's easy to track and there are larger samples, but mares bring a great deal to the party. There are stallions that are particularly prepotent (looking even at the horses in this thread, CD is obviously not one of them) and in fact this is one of the things Continental horses are judged on over the long haul - by tracking inspection stats you can see whether a stallion is likely to improve walks, say. For horses outside of this system, it really is random and usually a stellar reputation for a stallion has at least as much to do with his management and the care given to his book as with natural ability. Which is still a good reason to look at "popular" sires - they are popular for a reason!
 
Agree that the dam is as important to look at as the sire. We have two scopy and willing all-rounders of totally different breeding, but what they do have in common is that both their dams were well-bred (one by Jalisco B and one by Clover Hill) and had performed well themselves.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top