Carriage Driving Advice

Exasperated said:
Fine, you don’t drive out without a chaperone. Some drivers never venture outside a schooling arena or private park.
Other people do, they always have done, and I happen to be one of them.
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I didn't actually say you were wrong or shouldn't. . . . I also know those who do 🤷‍♀️
 
In my circles I think it is a bit generational, in that boys under 30 are more likely to drive alone.
If you’re wanting to get into trials driving I’d head straight towards a 4 wheeler. It’s what you get used to, I wouldn’t put either my horses to a 2 wheeler and both of them are pretty ground covering. A 2 wheeler with plain shaft ends will be easier to drive alone with if that’s important. Anything over 12hh you’ll have to be careful doing much canter work with only 2 wheels.

Ps 2025 indoors rules recommend body protector for dressage and cones in an indoor arena! Times are changing.
 
Exasperated said:
That’s maybe the difference in experience, then.
I’ve done plenty of solo driving with our own sec Ds; also jogging trotters round the roads when someone’s groom was hospitalised - any ‘shying’/ hoof out of place with pacers, they do it at c. 30mph - you would not want a four wheeler!
If private driving with a single, using public roads and tracks, or showing, and particularly when yoking up etc. on your own, I do feel a two wheeler has more to recommend it.
One holidays I drove for an omnibus summer service in the town, although did have a clippie and plenty of passengers for company, and three really good pairs of horses to drive.
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I don't think it's necessarily anything to do with difference in experience. With driving, as opposed to riding, it absolutely is safer to have a second person with you to help in case of an incident, there is nothing disputable about that. If something goes wrong with a carriage it is a different ball-game to something going wrong with a ridden horse. We're not just talking about safety of the humans, it's to help keep the horses safe too (which to me has to be THE most important factor, if we're potentially putting them in danger for our own enjoyment, then we owe it to them to reduce that level of danger as far as possible) - a loose horse with a carriage is far more likely to injure itself than one that just has to contend with tack. The advice being given by everyone else absolutely is the sensible way to approach driving, wherever possible

Plus, from an insurance point of view, not sure where you'd stand if you hurt someone or damaged property, and didn't have adequate help - that's probably another can of worms not worth opening here, and not really the point of the original post

Before you come back at me - yes I'm saying this as somebody who drives alone, a lot. It's great that you have the confidence to be able to do so and I'm glad that you've never come across serious problems with doing so. I would much prefer to have somebody with me, but more often than not it's not possible, and if I want to drive then i just have to get on with it. 99% of the time that's in my field at home, I do occasionally take my more experienced boy out on the road, very early on a Sunday morning - but I am super vigilant and choose my route carefully make sure I keep us out of trouble (and hi-vis up like something from the starship enterprise 😂)

OP, sounds like you're on the right track with learning to drive and the people you have already found :) Welsome to this fun and slightly mad community ;) In terms of 2-wheel vs 4-wheel, my understading was similar that 2 wheelers were often used for breaking because there isn't the risk of jacknifing, but I do think 4 wheelers are more commonly used now too. (I have small ponies so drive them in a 2 wheeler anyway for weight, so broke to a 2 wheeler, and it worked fine for us. Now have a 4-wheeler as well for pairs and they went straight into using that with no bother) I'd say it depends on what you want to do longer term, if your 2 wheeler will do what you need for the time being, and is the correct size and can be set up safely, then use that while you get going and decide whether you like diriving and which direction you want to go. If you decide to go into a discipline where a 4 wheeler would be better, then look into changing that further down the line. From the horses point of view, once they undertstand 'driving', I'd be surprised if they worried about changing between a 2 or 4 wheeler

Good luck with your driving journey!
 
rara007 said:
Ps 2025 indoors rules recommend body protector for dressage and cones in an indoor arena! Times are changing.
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There have been a few times, on really cold winter days at indoor comps, that I've put my body protector on first thing in the morning so that I don't need to take my coat off part way through the day (because I'm a wimp when it comes to cold 😂) - It does wonders for ones posture in the dressage! :p😂😂😂😂
 
rara007 said:
In my circles I think it is a bit generational, in that boys under 30 are more likely to drive alone.
If you’re wanting to get into trials driving I’d head straight towards a 4 wheeler. It’s what you get used to, I wouldn’t put either my horses to a 2 wheeler and both of them are pretty ground covering. A 2 wheeler with plain shaft ends will be easier to drive alone with if that’s important. Anything over 12hh you’ll have to be careful doing much canter work with only 2 wheels.

Ps 2025 indoors rules recommend body protector for dressage and cones in an indoor arena! Times are changing.
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That’s sensible if trials is your focus, especially if using short shafts.
When we did ODEs with BDS groups, it was the same vehicle for presentation/ dressage, cones and XC - venues with a decent ford were popular, to drive in and wash some of the worst off the cart after! Unless multiples, it was all 2 wheelers, and no half shafts, a horse can pivot a 2 wheeler and dig right into their ribs, rather than turning the vehicle using the shafts.
For private and trade competition, horses don’t canter; any two wheeler transfers all the horse’s movement; so if your animal does take off, or intentionally ‘spring’ them on the xc phase, certainly produces a bumpy ride.
Word of caution: if the horse is genuinely freaking and likely to leg it, be exceptionally careful going to the head of any panicking, blinkered animal with a large vehicle attached; might be safer with whip and passengers putting all their weight on the reins, from behind. Getting flattened by the horse and carriage is deadly serious.
 
LittleLegs&Co said:
There have been a few times, on really cold winter days at indoor comps, that I've put my body protector on first thing in the morning so that I don't need to take my coat off part way through the day (because I'm a wimp when it comes to cold 😂) - It does wonders for ones posture in the dressage! :p😂😂😂😂
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It’s bad enough going to the loo at indoors as it is 😅. Current venue has a lovely heated cafe if we’ve time to use it ….
 
ester said:
I think it’s the deadly serious bit we’re all taking into account
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I agree, being on a runaway wagon is harrowing, should do your utmost to minimise chances of incidents, but as whip you are responsible, and don’t want anyone in front of that horse, certainly not your friends and passengers.
saddlechariot and ibex yokes should score here, I believe there’s instant emergency release of the animal. Safety was the priority principle, that and enabling greater independence for users, seems a shame RDA don’t like this.
 
Friend who drove alone, ‘cos she always had 🙄, was mightily miffed when the rescuer who came across her lying unconscious in the road some distance away from the overturned carriage and trapped pony who were also on the road.

It was a breaker learning to be driven.

The rescuer had the nerve to cut her leather harness freeing the pony rather than risk getting his brains bashed in by a panicking pony if he’d tried to unbuckle it. She moaned for ages about that.
 
When I had my first driving animal, a donkey, I did most of my driving alone. As I learnt more I stopped going out alone and took someone with me. Now I would never consider going out alone and that is why I sold my driving pony earlier this year.

RDA carriage safety standards are high for all parts of the turnout, carriage, harness and horse.

I was an ab whip for 30+ years and many times a disabled driver needed immediate assistance while on the carriage. Even those who can drive independently with single reins are not immune from having problems requiring assistance.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Friend who drove alone, ‘cos she always had 🙄, was mightily miffed when the rescuer who came across her lying unconscious in the road some distance away from the overturned carriage and trapped pony who were also on the road.

It was a breaker learning to be driven.

The rescuer had the nerve to cut her leather harness freeing the pony rather than risk getting his brains bashed in by a panicking pony if he’d tried to unbuckle it. She moaned for ages about that.
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Well, your friend was just totally self centred and ungrateful, wasn’t she?
Stuff, including bad stuff, happens with horses; ridden, driven, in their fields or stable yards; if you’ve any sense (of self preservation or responsibility), you do what you can to minimise that, beyond, obviously, thoroughly training and habituating the horse to whatever the activity and circumstances dictate.
For example, she could have employed one of the various, quick release, safety devices for harness, for extrication of the animal. Cheryl Clarke (of Suffolk Punches and heavy horse acclaim) used to fit an emergency brake to the actual horses, huge novices/ breakers.
A companion might well have been a sensible idea, particularly with a breaker. Equally, since no idea what went wrong, might have produced two unconscious people beside the upturned trap.
Very lucky no harm was done to other than her pride or pocket.
 
I think for a lot of people doing all you can to minimise bad stuff includes having a groom, I’ve found a couple of your posts confusing in that way, like you said doing your utmost to minimise earlier.


I think most people driving alone including the sub30 boys are doing so knowing it’s not ideal/they’re taking more of a risk even if driving at home and even more so on the road.


I’m also not getting the well if you take someone else that’s 2 people to get injured as an argument to go alone.
 
ester said:
I think for a lot of people doing all you can to minimise bad stuff includes having a groom, I’ve found a couple of your posts confusing in that way, like you said doing your utmost to minimise earlier.


I think most people driving alone including the sub30 boys are doing so knowing it’s not ideal/they’re taking more of a risk even if driving at home and even more so on the road.


I’m also not getting the well if you take someone else that’s 2 people to get injured as an argument to go alone.
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? I have nothing against whips taking passengers, especially if good company, one of the great pleasures of driving is sharing it with others, including others on horseback - put the picnic in the trap, enjoyed some great times.
I wouldn’t deny someone a jaunt out simply because they might not prove utilitarian, either.
Not everyone is going to be helpful in event of emergency, some situations might be complicated by additional persons - depends what the emergency actually is; and in all conscience - if there is increased likelihood of something untoward, then you ought to carefully consider who or whether to invite along. Or whether it’s appropriate to do more training to minimise that possibility.
A whip will not always have suitable companions available (as some contributors have said), their friends may not want to sit on the cart for an hour or two in poor weather while there are horses to keep fit, or an actual task to complete. Or the whip might just enjoy the solitude with their horse. None of that applies to you - which is fine - I wouldn’t dream of telling you to drive off on your own; particularly since apprehensive, which might worry the horse; and don’t need to argue the case for myself or the countless others, over God knows how many years / decades/ centuries who have driven horses all over all sorts of places without a chaperone.
Happy driving!
 
I thought it was kind of a given that you'd take a helpful groom

Of course you might not have one available but that doesn't go with doing the utmost to avoid incidents/accidents which you stated, twice but apparently cannot see the contradiction there. Perhaps you didn't really mean utmost 🤷‍♀️, in which case it would make your stance less confusing.

I'm not worrying any horse by being in anyway apprehensive (bit rude), to put your mind at rest on that. Not owning one for a start 🤣, thankfully I do also have a very highly qualified international competitor as a trainer 👍 phew.
 
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ester said:
I thought it was kind of a given that you'd take a helpful groom

Of course you might not have one available but that doesn't go with doing the utmost to avoid incidents/accidents which you stated, twice but apparently cannot see the contradiction there. Perhaps you didn't really mean utmost 🤷‍♀️, in which case it would make your stance less confusing.

I'm not worrying any horse by being in anyway apprehensive (bit rude), to put your mind at rest on that. Not owning one for a start 🤣, thankfully I do also have a very highly qualified international competitor as a trainer 👍 phew.
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That’s not rude! It was being considerate of your stated and implied view:
that for you, the presence of a companion is clearly essential to your safety and enjoyment of driving - fine, and given which, as I very clearly wrote, I would not dream of telling you (or anyone else for that matter) to drive off on your own without such support, because any whip who is worried - about being alone and unsafe in this case - could easily transmit lack of confidence to a sensitive horse.
I don’t have a ‘stance’ on this, although if pushed would now stick my neck out and actively advise people who feel as you do, never to drive alone, because your stress would clearly be excessive, and might therefore increase your risks.
Companions, passengers, backsteppers, grooms, tigers, dogsbodies, whatever, can be excellent fun and can be very helpful - and some whips absolutely need another person. But their presence is (unfortunately) absolutely no guarantee of safety or against incident, and is not a ‘necessity’ or a ‘given’ for others.
 
You don’t know I’m worried 😅 or excessively stressed 😅 you’re making a lot of assumptions and still contradicting yourself.
 
ester said:
You don’t know I’m worried 😅 or excessively stressed 😅 you’re making a lot of assumptions and still contradicting yourself.
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You are so right - luckily, we both know that you are neither worried nor stressed, excessively or otherwise, because you don’t ever drive horses on your own - that’s lovely, that is genuinely one less thing to worry about.
Furthermore, you have no intention of ever doing so, so don’t even have to fret about the possibility, wonderful, I 100% support you keeping it that way and preserving your peace.
 
Exasperated, you've gone off on a really odd tangent on this thread and seem to be on a mission to get across a point that really isn't relevant to the OP's original question. This post is about how to get started in carriage driving. It is universally true that it is safer to have an extra person on hand to assist in the case of an incident. Actually that goes for riding as well as carriage driving, or anything you do with horses for that matter, and as such the recommedation to anyone starting out should always be to have help whenever possible. Nothing to do with experience or confidence levels, that's just plain old common sense and doing what you can to keep your horse safe.

I know Ester and can vouch for the fact she is a successful driver in her own right and not someone that I would consider nervous. Yes, you may not think so, but the statements and assumptions you have made are rude. You are coming across as a bit of a troll, and if that isn't your intention I'd suggest reconsidering the way you are commenting

Whether or not you feel safe enough to drive alone (and good for you, as you obviously do. I just hope you never have an accident where another person could have made a difference) does not change the FACT that it is safer to have help on hand. Please stop pushing your narrative as it's just not relevant to this thread

Deciding not to drive on your own does not mean that you are nervous of driving alone, or that your choice to only drive in company means that you're only confident when you have someone to hold your hand. It just means you're doing what you can to reduce risks. aka common sense, and looking out for the best interests of these wonderful animals

OP, I wish you all of the luck in the world with your carriage driving journey. Follow the advice of the professional(s) you have already engaged with and you won't go far wrong :) Also, can't remember if it'sbeenmentioned before, but the Indoor Carriagedriving winter season is just kicking off - if you can I would really recommend getting along to some events.It's a really friendly community and you'll find lots of experienced and knoledgeable people willing to chat
 
I may be highjacking the thread ,but I did a bit of driving many years ago , and now I get great pleasure watching Barry Hook vids on Youtube. He seems unflappable in the heaviest traffic , often with novice horses. He believes in not getting dow to the horse s heads, but letting them figure out the correct answer for themselves.
I quite fancy a pair of coloured Dartmoor hill ponies as a matching pair , trit trotting through the countryside. Maybe when I can no longer ride at all......
 
With a big training 4 wheeler and experienced help for when it does go fully wrong that can work, but not advisable unless you’ve the right (heavy and tall!) equipment (and people…!)
 
Wow that thread went down a rabbit hole.

@cornbrodolly Barry Hook isn't to far from me, but I have been warned against him, and partly for the reasons you mention.

@ester and @rara007 I really appreciate your input and enjoy reading your updates on here.

@LittleLegs&Co thank you, I'll have a look at the indoor carriage driving and see if there are any local ish to me. When I was younger I did groom for a lady who did the indoor 'cone thing' with her hackney ponies. It seemed fun but I never gave it a go, wish I had now. She was up in Cheshire so a fair distance from me now.

I still haven't settled on where or who to send either of the boys too. Its so tricky - harder than choosing a school for your kids :oops: 🤣 . I've ended up backing them both myself after not being 100% comfortable with any of the people I approached for backing. It probably hasn't happened as quickly as it would if a professional had done it, but both ponies are happily hacking and they are comfortable with a rider (me) onboard. They'll have the winter off now and come back into 'grown up' work in the spring as 6 and 5 year olds.

They both long rein and wear harness without an issue. We've played around with having them stood between the shafts and touching them with the shafts down their sides etc. I'm just not confident of the next stages without an experienced driving person with me. I think by the time I find someone they will be so easy as we have faffed about so much already it's almost boring to the ponies now 🤣
 
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