Carry your hands! my grumble...

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RachelBristol

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Grumble Grumble...

I just read an advert for a sports horse

It said "Works in a nice outline"

I looked at the photo and YET AGAIN I see a horse being ridden by a rider whos hands are firmly planted on the horses neck at the top of the shoulder and below the wither. Sure it may look ok to an un knowledgeable person... but! grrr grumble grumble.....

I carry my hands, are people not taught this any more?

grumble grumble....

p.s. fed up of seeing badly schooled horses.
 
I am always being told 'weight in your elbows' ... I guess that's the same thing? & When I was a child if you had a lesson and finished with dirt & grease on your knuckles from leaning them on the withers you got a good telling off!!
 
Don't know. I watched someone ride today the hands were right down by the horses withers and arms straight. I really wanted to call out..bend yer elbows and raise yer hands! I didn't :o
Think there's a belief that if you want the head to go down then the hands must be low too. I was taught to keep elbows bent and in line with my body but then I have other bad habits which I'm sure more than compensate :o
 
It's my absolute pet hate!!!!! I'm on a show jumping yard & constantly see people riding pinning their horses head in an 'outline' and then wondering why their horse is charging around fighting them with heads in the hair!
 
When I'm being lazy or we're just pootling around I have my reins in a single bridge and rest my hands on my horses withers, it's my bad habit from riding racehorses! When we're actually working though I do try to keep my hands up, I have to be shouted at a bit though :o
 
ahh good glad its not just me :D

I see it often locally, and when I think about it, all these people are either "know it alls" or have been 'taught' by a twenty year old "know it all" who has done nothing except the local unaffiliated shows themselves and scraped through a few BHS stags. :confused:

grumble grumble....
 
Ginger Bear said:
It's my absolute pet hate!!!!! I'm on a show jumping yard & constantly see people riding pinning their horses head in an 'outline' and then wondering why their horse is charging around fighting them with heads in the hair!
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just because hands are low doesnt mean its held in an outline :/

that is where I carry my hands, I dont fix horses and I am very soft?



I will also (hopefully) be a BS accredited coach by the end of the summer so I kind of know my stuff. I think it depends on the rider and their skill :)
 
RachelBristol said:
I carry my hands, are people not taught this any more?
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Nope! this is my pet hate, I've posted about it loads! I know a RS who actively teach kids to hold hands glued to the withers as low down as possible and to saw at the horses mouth to achieve "outline" it makes me sad an angry to see pictures of these lovely kids (and most of them are very sweet strangely - I usually can't stand other peoples kids ha ha!) with their arms straight and locked and their ponies/horses heads pulled in... even while jumping! :eek::mad:
 
NBC you dont carry your hands particularly low in my mind, put it this way if it werent for the mane, I would be able to just see both your hands in this pic, you also have a nice soft elbow, and a direct contact from elbow to mouth. The horse is working and tracking up.

Ohh I want to post the pic I saw (but I wont)

But it think much more along the lines of a few inches lower than yours and pressed in to the shoulder with almost straight elbows.
 
It could be worse, round here it seems to be the fashion to hold the hands down alongside the thighs and saw from side to side. Not just in the school but out on hacks too so the poor horse never gets a break.
 
RachelBristol said:
NBC you dont carry your hands particularly low in my mind, put it this way if it werent for the mane, I would be able to just see both your hands in this pic, you also have a nice soft elbow, and a direct contact from elbow to mouth. The horse is working and tracking up.

Ohh I want to post the pic I saw (but I wont)

But it think much more along the lines of a few inches lower than yours and pressed in to the shoulder with almost straight elbows.
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Thanks, I think I carry them too low really but it works for me! I tried bending at the elbow (Tim Stockdale style) and it feels so wrong and my hands feel so far up that I no longer feel effective! Maybe my arms are too short :O
 
I remember "two mugs of coffee or pint glasses with handles" plus numerous others..

Quite agree with the poster who mentioned people now being taught by 20yr old who know everything( tho I'm sure there are lots who are genuinely excellent, they aren't the know all ones)

Theres a great difference in teaching to be an effective rider or teaching to be able to sit pretty(or not!!) and sadly I think although there are some wonderful young instructors out there..there are equally many who teach/train to pay the bills or because they have the right clothes & can talk the talk. The kind of riders they "produce/train" are far from the effective riders you would expect them to be. Its all very well being able to pass your exams (tho there are many who don't yet still teach) but the lack of 'experience' leaves a lot to be desired. If you can't get a horse to do something other than by setting of fixing it in any way possible, then how on earth can you have the nerve to take money from someone to 'teach'.

I've seen a lot of sawing around here too & the swing from side to side brigade also..funny tho others still look correct & are effective hacking yet some think its ok to have your hacking style..to me thats how bad habbits are learnt.

I used to do all my schooling out hacking..that way it just came more naturally in the school..trees or gateways would be markers etc. Most laughably tho was the woman I know of who "knows more about horses than you could care to forget"..she trains/teaches & has made quite a name for herself (yes..FOR herself) I was walking my dog the other day & happened to see her going of for a saw..I mean hack..and happened to also notice the markers she had in her schooling area in her field. I would have hoped she would have taken the time to at least put those out correctly..yet she's the first to bitch and be evilly critical about me behind my back!not laughed so much in a long time! it went something like A B C E F H K M, which as far as I'm aware, unless they've changed it & I'm the only one who hasn't been told....I'm sure someone will put me right. I'm desperate to ask her if I can come & watch her ride a test so I can practice my calling skills:D

and breath..I needed that!:D
 
Nightmare before Christmas said:
just because hands are low doesnt mean its held in an outline :/

that is where I carry my hands, I dont fix horses and I am very soft?



I will also (hopefully) be a BS accredited coach by the end of the summer so I kind of know my stuff. I think it depends on the rider and their skill :)
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I was talking about my observation on my yard.. & it does happen a lot, the manager is a show jumper & she doesn't hold heads in & has low hands but on a side note none of the horses have juicy bum muscles? Maybe it's linked maybe its not?
 
This is my let down, having an ex racer who when i got him required hands down by neck to stop him being a complete ass, we are now through this. But i keep reverting- so i now have the old short stick out for me to hold while schooling!
 
I have lessons at a riding school so I'd never really considered the skills or abilities of those who freelance so to speak. However I've recently taken on a new share and his saddle was way way too big as was his bit. Now, said horse was/is being schooled and his owner given lessons by an instructor, an experienced eventer I think. So why was the ill fitting tack not remarked on? Makes you think. :eek:
 
SaharaS said:
it went something like A B C E F H K M, which as far as I'm aware, unless they've changed it & I'm the only one who hasn't been told....I'm sure someone will put me right. I'm desperate to ask her if I can come & watch her ride a test so I can practice my calling skills:D

and breath..I needed that!:D
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Ha ha! this made me giggle ^ :D

The RS I'm talking about people assume they are BHS accredited instructors... they are not! One has stage 1 pass and the other... First aid... that is all.
The best bit is the senior "instructor" will tell people off for doing what the junior "instructor" has taught them... the senior taught the junior! :rolleyes:

I feel sorry for the horses who have to carry riders who do these things to them not knowing any better but I also feel sorry for the riders who don't know any better and have only been taught by these two, they will now believe from hereafter that this is the correct way to ride :( The worst of it is there isn't a lot of choice for instructors where I am so a lot of people go there :(
 
I recently went to a workshop where we held a bit in our hands the instructor had the reins and held her hands close together far apart and pinned down. It was amazing the difference you could feel on the bit. No skill can alter that feeling it was a big and unpleasant difference
 
Just a question/ thought to add. Hope someone can answer it. Having watched a particular dealers rider ride, she schools with very low hands/ just above or touching withers. She does most of the riding for the breakers. Has her low hands come from riding the breakers?

Hope someone understands this and can help me with my pondering.
 
bluebellfreddy said:
Just a question/ thought to add. Hope someone can answer it. Having watched a particular dealers rider ride, she schools with very low hands/ just above or touching withers. She does most of the riding for the breakers. Has her low hands come from riding the breakers?

Hope someone understands this and can help me with my pondering.
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It shouldn't do. If you're riding a youngster/newly backed horse, if anything your hands should be further forward than usual to avoid jabbing them in the mouth if they do something unexpected.
 
As already said, with low hands you can pin a horse into an "outline" so to a novice it looks better schooled than what it is.
 
bluebellfreddy said:
Just a question/ thought to add. Hope someone can answer it. Having watched a particular dealers rider ride, she schools with very low hands/ just above or touching withers. She does most of the riding for the breakers. Has her low hands come from riding the breakers?

Hope someone understands this and can help me with my pondering.
Click to expand...


I ride breakers/racehorses for a living and I often carry my hands 'low' in comparison, I think it stems from often riding in a single bridge and on unpredictable youngsters where you want your hands as close to the neck/monkey strap as possible for those odd 'moments'! :D ;) I don't ever force an outline, you can still use soft hands when they rest just above the wither, it's just not quite as correct in style so to speak.
 
I hate to see stiff, insensitive hands, whatever their position!

I'm another that was taught to carry the hand - the width of the bit apart and approx. four inches above the saddle and just in front of it.

Hands that are either clamped on the neck or held with locked elbows can be hard on the horse and a rider should be aiming to use the hands independently. It seems to be the fashion for overbent horses that the riders assume looks flashy, which is dragging its backside around the school, as any forward momentum is blocked with hard hands. Oh for the days where we didn't worry about where a horse's head was when it was working, but concentrated on getting it working forwards and balanced.
 
SimplyHunting you beat me to it.

Yes racehorse riders do sit their hands low, and generally with a bridged rein, this is so that a. they are close to the neck strap B. The horses cant take a hold as easily, and C. they have more contact with the horse, and by this I dont mean contact hand to mouth etc as we would normally talk about contact, but body to body! ie. the more of you touching the horse, the less likely you are to fall from the 2YO sprinter as you hurtle up Newmarket Heath, and it spooks at a rabbit flying in the other direction!
(I used to live next to Newmarket)

It is similar with the breakers, although often with breakers they fix the hand more than usual so that the horse doesnt get socked in the mouth when it does something a little daft! However I have noticed that a lot of the breaker riders are no longer the more experienced people who know how and why they are doing things, it is tending to be more "crash test Dummy" types. :rolleyes: And no SimplyHunting I am not referring to you in this comment ;)
 
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