Catching a very difficult horse

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Rubyrooo

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I need help! My friend and I keep our horses at a livery yard, we are lucky enough to have daily turnout in the winter and 24/7 turnout in summer. Both our horses are in a small herd of 4 mares. The problem is my friend’s horse will not be caught. She just walks away from whoever is trying to catch her, then stands still, waits for you to try again, then walks away again. Occasionally she will trot or canter a perfect circle around you, stop, wait for you to go over to her, then walk off again. She seems to like bad weather, as the worst the weather, the harder she is to catch. She is always out in a headcollar, but you can never get close enough to grab it. She is semi retired, so she is only ridden occasionally, for a little walk through fields, so the majority of time she is coming in to a nice clean stable and food.She seems happy in her stable, and not stressed at all. We have tried leaving her on her own and bringing all the other horses, but she still didn’t want to come in. We tried following her around the field and not letting her settle and making her walk, that didn’t work, she was quite happy to keep walking around the field. We’ve tried sitting in the field and ignoring her, she just ignored us too! We got a horse behaviourist out and the day she came, my friends horse walked straight up to her and wasn’t a problem at all! We have run out of ideas! It’s like it’s a game for her, she almost looks disappointed when you give up and leave her in the field. Eventually she gives in and comes in, but lately that’s been getting later and later. It’s quite a big yard, and the fields are a long walk from the yard, my poor friend is often in a dark field on her own in the dark, trying to catch her horse. She’s not very food oriented and taking a bucket of food up hasn’t had any result either. So if anyone has any ideas I would love to hear them! Please help!
 
I have a gelding who is a bit of a comedian with catching...Can walk him down, send him on, etc etc which does eventually work but sometimes you can be there for hours as he knows exactly what he's doing. He's similar, more often than not he's coming in just to have some food and some time in the dry.

If I'm in a hurry and can't faff around, I herd him into a corner with electric tape. He accepts his fate, goes into the corner and then I can catch him.

Maybe not the best way, but it works..!
 
Rubyrooo said:
She seems to like bad weather, as the worst the weather, the harder she is to catch.
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The worse the weather the more our horses like to be in the open where they can sense/see/hear danger (not that there is any but this is very important to horses) and flee if necessary

Rubyrooo said:
the majority of time she is coming in to a nice clean stable and food.She seems happy in her stable, and not stressed at all.
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Not the place to be in a bad weather if you're a mare aware of 'danger'. Mine would be outside the open access barn in lashing rain when everyone else was inside tucking in to hay. She was also known to return to the barn after a ride and everyone else was quietly tucking in to the hay and she would fly through the barn (open at bother ends) and up the hill followed by everyone else.
 
I have had one like that. He was fine on the small yard he came from, but just would not be caught when I had him. My yard was bigger in terms of number of horses and field sizes, although he was only turned out with two others. He never really settled on my yard, and I always felt that he felt safer out than in his stable. Not much help, but in his case the environment was what made the difference.
 
Arzada said:
The worse the weather the more our horses like to be in the open where they can sense/see/hear danger (not that there is any but this is very important to horses) and flee if necessary


Not the place to be in a bad weather if you're a mare aware of 'danger'. Mine would be outside the open access barn in lashing rain when everyone else was inside tucking in to hay. She was also known to return to the barn after a ride and everyone else was quietly tucking in to the hay and she would fly through the barn (open at bother ends) and up the hill followed by everyone else.
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It’s difficult as it’s a livery yard, so we can’t leave her out at night all winter. It would be preferable, but it’s impossible. My friend works long hours so keeping her anywhere but a livery yard is not an option unfortunately.
 
Wizpop said:
I have had one like that. He was fine on the small yard he came from, but just would not be caught when I had him. My yard was bigger in terms of number of horses and field sizes, although he was only turned out with two others. He never really settled on my yard, and I always felt that he felt safer out than in his stable. Not much help, but in his case the environment was what made the difference.
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She’s been at the yard for about 15 years, so should be settled by now. My friend bought her from the person who bred her, who also ran a livery yard. She’s only ever had two owners. She’s now 22 and has definitely got worse. I’ve been at the yard for about 6 years, and she’s got worse since I’ve been there.
 
dorsetladette said:
Can you put a pen up by the gate. Then just walk/push her into it and close that gate behind. Like FC said they generally accept their fate once you've done it a few times. Sounds like she's a bit of a comedian.

The pen will save the ground round your gate way too.
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I’ll suggest it to my friend and ask the yard owner if it’s possible. Thank you
 
Jenko109 said:
Agree with creating a 'catching patch'

I used to just bang some wooden posts in and some fence tape up. Wide one end and narrowing down.

Herd pony in and then close them in at the narrow end. Job done.
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Thanks. I’ll suggest it. Today is going to be fun. My friend and I are going out tonight so the girls have to be in a bit earlier, and I’m on bring in duty🙈 My horse is so easy, she’s so food orientated she’ll always come in, and even if I try and catch my friend’s one first, mine just follows me around the field!
 
Rubyrooo said:
and making her walk, that didn’t work, she was quite happy to keep walking around the field.
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Walking is not enough. Make her run. I once watched Mark Rashid deal with an uncatchable horse in an arena. I have done it myself. After a bit that horse turned and followed me to the gate where I caught her.
It is the same out hacking in the open. I fell off cantering up a big meadow and my RS horse refused to be caught. She stopped to graze and made off again as soon as I got close. I forced her to keep moving. After about a quarter of a mile she just stopped and a passing walker kindly caught her for me.

There is a despcription of chasing a horse to catch it from a big field in the book Whispering Back.
 
Skib said:
Walking is not enough. Make her run. I once watched Mark Rashid deal with an uncatchable horse in an arena. I have done it myself. After a bit that horse turned and followed me to the gate where I caught her.
It is the same out hacking in the open. I fell off cantering up a big meadow and my RS horse refused to be caught. She stopped to graze and made off again as soon as I got close. I forced her to keep moving. After about a quarter of a mile she just stopped and a passing walker kindly caught her for me.

There is a despcription of chasing a horse to catch it from a big field in the book Whispering Back.
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Problem with this is it can take an age, and if you're anything like me the horse is way fitter and faster than I am! My gelding's record was I think 3 hours! Of me keeping him moving whilst I tried to do it the "proper" way.

It does work, and I find if you do it every time they are being difficult it (usually) is faster each time...until they throw a curve ball and decide not today. Especially when that "not today" is an hour before the vet/farrier/other is due.
 
Have you tried turning your back on her when she walks away?
When my old TB started walking away I would turn away from her and go and speak to the other ponies and she’d come wandering over to see what was happening.

I’ve found they tend to get a sense of humour as they get older.
 
Like the others above, I'm a fan of making a catching pen. It's just a strand of tape and 3 plastic posts; you can set it up each time if necessary. Walking down in a big field is challenging as they can get far enough away to stop and graze before you can catch up with them.
 
A girl on our yard went through this with one of hers, to the point where she would come back into the yard crying in frustration. One Saturday she decided to walk him down, no frustration or anger allowed, just either catch him or keep him from grazing and settling. It took her four hours, and he didn't do it again. Is she curious around food or treats? Could be worth trying some treats in an empty crisp packet when you have an hour to spare. Walk towards her, and as soon as she moves away, crinkle the packet, turn your back on her and step away three or four paces. If she turns to face you, slowly approach her from a 45 degree angle, aiming for her shoulder., crackle the bag and turn and walk away again. Stand still and see if she will come to you, keep you body turned away from her and try not to make eye contact. If she will come up to you, give her a treat and then walk away for a few paces. The point is to get her to follow you. and if your YO will allow a small pen to be put up, fingers crossed she will be interested in the diversion of crackly packet and a treat and you can walk her into the pen.
 
Can you get close enough to throw the end of a lunging rope over her neck? (assuming she's not normally phased by having ropes dropped over her neck etc).

I know a horse who was a bugger to catch, but if you could get a rope over his neck, just lying there, he'd give in assuming he was caught. The skill was if he jumped / swung away you had to move with him and pay out rope so it didn't slip off. If the rope stayed on that first move he'd give up and stand like a dope while you caught him.

Might be worth a try if you can get close enough.
 
Skib said:
Walking is not enough. Make her run. I once watched Mark Rashid deal with an uncatchable horse in an arena. I have done it myself. After a bit that horse turned and followed me to the gate where I caught her.
It is the same out hacking in the open. I fell off cantering up a big meadow and my RS horse refused to be caught. She stopped to graze and made off again as soon as I got close. I forced her to keep moving. After about a quarter of a mile she just stopped and a passing walker kindly caught her for me.

There is a despcription of chasing a horse to catch it from a big field in the book Whispering Back.
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Only big issue with this is a YO is likely to get v v upset/cross about field getting churned up at this time of the year if horse gets sent round a few times.

OP, as per others suggestions, a pen inside the gate that can be closed down, as long as she isnt one to scoot through it.

I'm fortunate that I don't have liveries, so any dodgy one can be quietly herded from a paddock onto the yard, then into a stable if really not playing nicely.
 
I think the key thing is that when you got a behaviourist, she came straight over. To me that suggests she is intelligent and interested in work / being good / attention.

Mine behaves like the mare but only for the grooms on the yard. For me, he is perfect and walks straight over but when I bring him in, at the very least we will do some in hand training on the way in (lots of stopping, backing up etc which is a game he can use to show how clever he is). I'm not sure if it's the attention he gets from me or simply that he will get to 'play and win a game'.
 
I've a horse who absolutely does not catch.

I've had him 5 years and have never caught him.
Something happened before I got him.

Penning causes sheer panic, it's obviously been used in a bad way in the past.

If they are really determined, it's can be nigh on impossible to get them.

Luckily my set up means he can just follow the others in, and once in a stable he's fine.

In the summer when they live out, he'll come to the gate in the morning, where upon you open it, he'll come in, get his fly mask on and then go back out.

It's a shame because someone has screwed him up so bad he can't be ridden, as panics and has no concern for himself or you.

He's a big pet, and adorded by us.
 
If older, is being in making her stiff or cold? Is she running out of food too soon or conversely struggling to eat from the haynet? I would walk down, yes, but that will only have a lasting effect if in becomes better (or at least as good) as out.
 
Rubyrooo said:
She is always out in a headcollar, but you can never get close enough to grab it.
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For me, this sentence is quite significant. If the moment of being 'caught' is associated with tension, being caught off guard, 'giving in', any manner of other similar descriptions, I would expect the horse to resist it happening.

Can you/your friend do some positive reinforcement with the horse in a smaller area, making the moment of being 'caught' a totally - and I mean totally - passive one, marked then with a complete release of pressure/containment and food rewards, and then gradually over the course of a few sessions build up to 'catching' from an ever increasing distance/approach?

If the horse has an incredibly strong resentment association with being 'caught' by having a hand put on her headcollar, it is worth making the connection/reward point a different one initially - perhaps a palm on her neck for a couple of seconds before withdrawing and giving the food reward.

Body language is really important, but if the horse resents the actual moment of being caught and the energy/intention associated with it they tend to stop engaging and shut down/shut you out, so even perfect interactions just get blanked.
 
Thank you everyone. I’ll try and reply to a few of your suggestions as I’m not sure how to do that thing where you put loads of quotes on one reply!
She isn’t very treat orientated, she often looks at a treat as if to say “well I’ll eat it because you want me to, but I don’t really want it” It often doesn’t make any difference if you go up to the other horses and feed them, she doesn’t seem bothered at all. I’ve tried ignoring her, it didn’t work. She gets hay on the floor and in a net in her stable and eats it all, so I don’t think that’s a problem. The only time she’s stress in her stable is if she is kept in for the farrier and watches all her friends go out. Then she weaves, and will drag you to the field when she does go out. She’s definitely got worse as she’s got older. My friend went to the field and back three times one evening last week to catch her! I’ll tell her to try putting the lunge line over her neck, that sounds a good idea. She did try working on her in a smaller field when the horse behaviourist was there, but she hasn’t done it since, so maybe that’s something she could go back to.
I did actually manage to catch her last night! I caught my horse, put her outside the field, then went back in and somehow managed to grab the headcollar before she turned away. The problem is that she’s clever, so I don’t think that method will work twice!
 
Highmileagecob said:
Will she allow herself to be herded down to the gate? If she will, then a catching pen that can be closed behind her will probably work. For treats, try a treacle sandwich - seems to be irresistible to horses.
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I’ll try the treacle sandwich! She moves herself away from the other horses when I try and get her, so I’m not sure that would work, but it’s worth a try!
 
Based on my experience with an older mare I would try:
- Check how warm she is at night when standing in. Maybe add a layer/warmer rug. My late teens pony always needs a step up from everyone else.
- Definitely up the hay if she eats it all. I like to find a little left in the bottom of the haynet so I know for sure they’ve not been standing without food at any point. My older pony has two nets just to be sure.
- Watch her walk out in the morning - any stiffness? Could use a treat ball or similar to help her keep moving at night.
- Check for rat holes etc. Some horses don’t mind them, some get really unsettled by them.

And put a short length of twine on the bottom ring of her headcollar to help catch her!
 
dorsetladette said:
Can you put a pen up by the gate. Then just walk/push her into it and close that gate behind. Like FC said they generally accept their fate once you've done it a few times. Sounds like she's a bit of a comedian.

The pen will save the ground round your gate way too.
Click to expand...

I had a bad to catch Welsh D for years.. I tried everything known to man, nothing worked. Worse in Spring when the mares next door were in season, would come to call in winter funnily enough!

The only way I could catch him in Spring was a pen, as above. After a couple of times, he would run into the pen and happily be caught.
 
A left-field suggestion worth trying.

One of mine had a behavioural response quirk, and so everytime i wanted to do X, i’d hope it would be different, but the response was the same.
We can easily go round in circles once something starts!
I would approach the job and be thinking ‘he’ll do X - i hope its better this time’.

Then i had the realisation after 10 times that im potentially:
‘projecting the behaviour via expecting the behaviour due to previous occasions of experiencing the behaviour’.

This is likely why with the behaviourist, your friends mare walked straight up to her.
Despite being told the issue, the behaviourist wasnt holding all those days and months past frustration memory/energy/emotions spending hours catching her.
The behaviourist was in a neutral mindset of ‘lets wait and see what the problem is and how it presents’.

The behaviourist wasn’t in that field with a memory energy of ‘pleeeeeze let me catch you. Dont walk away from me!!’ frustration.

I stopped approaching my gelding with the attitude of ‘he’s going to do x behaviour he’s done before”- that attitude made me also not want to do X with him.
They detect our energy like white on rice - they hear our heartbeat, literally.
My mare reads my damn mind if i picture in my mind what position i want her in!

I had to ‘mind-wipe’ myself, my memory of previous behaviours, my attitude about it, my expectations of it, be completely neutral about projecting any ideas or expectations.
I’d approach x job with a positive, looking forward to it attitude. ‘It’s going to go well’ self-talk type of mind-set.
It worked!

Sometimes this involved while doing x, just stopping, breathing in and out slowly, totally relaxing, going ‘zen-like’….absolutely change my ‘energy signature’…to more neutral.

Something that could help initially for your friend to change her energy about it just before entering the field and while in the field, if she plays a relaxing zen-like music on her phone. (I’m suggesting this due to not knowing your friend and how easy she finds it to empty her mind and relax)
Youtube meditation tracks are generally relaxing. Just stand there, breathe evenly and deeply, follow the music for 2 mins. Empty mind of thoughts and emotions.
Call mare over.

Instead of holding in her mind the notion of ‘she’ll walk away from me’ - replace it with the words and image of ‘she’ll walk up to me’.
(Everday someone has been thinking ‘she’ll walk away from me when i try to catch her’ delete that thinking, replace with behaviour wanted ‘she’ll walk up to me’.)

What piqued my curiosity that this was potentially a projection circle of behaviour via handler and mare happening, was when you said the mare seemed disappointed when you’d leave.
If we enter the field thinking “she’ll walk off from me” - the mare reads that as ‘ok, you want me to walk off from you’ - from her point of view, she’s doing as you ask!
You stop walking after her, she mimics by stopping.
Then you leave, she’s (potentially from her POV) completely confused why you come to the field to ask her to walk away from you and then leave.

This suggestion is just another angle of looking at the situation. It worked for me changing my memory/attitude/energy and expectations.
It is so easy for us to project yesterdays behaviour onto the same horse today.
We often dont realise the role we play in manifesting their behaviour.
Communication is more than just oral words with any sentient being, and especially with animals.

A bit more info on my own horses quirk:
As i became aware of the realisation that im potentially projecting the expectation of the behaviour, i asked my OH to do X with my horse, without telling him the situation of the behaviour response. I didnt want my OH to project the quirk behaviour idea onto the horse. It wasnt anything dangerous behaviour related, just a quirk.
It blew my mind that even with me casually observing, my OH did X with my boy, and he behaved fine. Perfect. Over and over, perfect behaviour!
My.mind.was.blown!
That confirmed for me that it was my ideas and expectations of my horse to behave the way he had before. I broke that cycle of thinking/feeling and the behaviour stopped.
 
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